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At what point would a Mail Server provider kick you out (tell you to gtfo)? How to send mass emais?
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At what point would a Mail Server provider kick you out (tell you to gtfo)? How to send mass emais?

So,

Im looking at some mail server hosts (that hosts custom domains). Like Gmail, Zoho Mail, Yandex, MXRoute and others.

lets say for the sake of the argument that im making a calander app, which needs to email notify all users just before every meeting, and im expecting a LOT of users. Im looking at sending (im not, but hypothetically?) a lot of automated emails. like 100's/day, 1000's/day, 10,000/day, 100000/day?.

I asked this same question on another thread a long while back, but i never actually get a real answer. I mean i understand that this is a hard question to answer, but im not really happy with an answer that is along the lines of "we will limit if you send too much/many, or if you abuse" (what is the definition of too many, and abuse in this case?). Im looking for some ballparks for these providers, atleast some rough number so i can plan around.

@Jar might be able to shed some light on MXRoute?
Can anyone else shead some light on other providers?

Secondly, if this is not the best way to do mass emailing, then is there a better (not hugely expensive) solution? Can you please suggest me any services you might know of?

I should specify, i prefer not getting my emails marked as spam, i want a clean solution that balances cost (im not only looking for something free) and reliability.

URL Shortner: https://ur.lk (Analytics, tracking, QR codes, passwords and whole lot more...)

Comments

  • jarjar Provider
    edited April 2015

    decay said: might be able to shed some light on MXRoute?

    For me, it's when your e-mails specifically cause other servers to block mine for a period of time, whether that be for too many simultaneous connections, too much volume in too short of a period of time, or triggering spam filters too frequently. Basically, when it's out of my hands it has to either be solved by my client or they have to go.

    Rate limiting and/or balancing from a number of IP addresses is key. I provide IP rotation to an extent, but it really depends on how easy clients are hitting that trigger on whether or not I'll consider rotation an appropriate solution to the problem. If I have to rotate through 24 IPs every hour of the day for one client, it's not going to happen, for example.

    Thanked by 1deadbeef

    "Note that Romania has laws agains all the illegal activities just like US, including copyright. Is not the Dracula's country or no man's land as you thought." - Random email from someone I don't know, about nothing I've done or said

  • decaydecay Member

    Jar said: For me, it's when your e-mails specifically cause other servers to block mine for a period of time, whether that be for too many simultaneous connections, too much volume in too short of a period of time, or triggering spam filters too frequently. Basically, when it's out of my hands it has to either be solved by my client or they have to go.

    Fair enough. In your oppinion, do you have a rough idea of numbers (im not going to quote you) where you would get annoyed, or if this would happen (ie. at 100/day, 1000/day, 100,000/day)? I know its hard to tell because it depends on who the email is going to, but if you breakdown the statistics, if gmail ussually get say 40% of all emails, then 100,000*0.4 = 40,000/day for gmail, which is ~1700/hr, ~30/min. @ 10k/day, then its 3/min. or @ 1K/day, then 17/hr. Are you able to shead some light based on the mailserver statistics like that? And if i were to want reliable MASS emailing, then do you have another solution?

    URL Shortner: https://ur.lk (Analytics, tracking, QR codes, passwords and whole lot more...)

  • deadbeefdeadbeef Member
    edited April 2015

    If your mail is strictly legit and well groomed (clean opt-in list etc), why not use Amazon's solution?

    Thanked by 1Scottsman
  • jarjar Provider
    edited April 2015

    decay said: do you have a rough idea of numbers

    Generally I notice problems around the 1,000 per hour mark where most of the recipients reside on the same server. I'm not sure on the exact number where they begin rate limiting, but that's right about where my memory, eximstats, and Gmail errors sync up in my head. Trying to be conservative about avoiding it, I wouldn't make more than say 5-10 connections to Gmail in a minute on a continual basis with the same IP address.

    And let's face it, Gmail is really what it's all about. That's where most of the e-mail ends up going.

    Thanked by 2deadbeef mehargags

    "Note that Romania has laws agains all the illegal activities just like US, including copyright. Is not the Dracula's country or no man's land as you thought." - Random email from someone I don't know, about nothing I've done or said

  • decaydecay Member
    edited April 2015

    deadbeef said: If your mail is strictly legit and well groomed (clean opt-in list etc), why not use Amazon's solution?

    Yeah i was just looking at it. I havent come accross any demos on how to use that yet, maybe i will look more into this. If anyone have more info on this, let me know :)

    Jar said: Generally I notice problems around the 1,000 per hour mark where most of the recipients reside on the same server

    Right, so long as i send under 10k/day (not just gmail, but statistically most of it would be), you wouldnt be too annoyed? Is there a solution for larger numbers? Maybe adding few dedicated IP addresses if i need to send more than 10k/day? Or would you recommend that i use a different service if i need to send that many emails (dw, i wont be offended)? The main thing im trying to do is to find a cheap reliable service that i can use to send emails, so it doesnt make much difference if its MXRoute, or mandrill or amazon etc on my end, so long as i get a reliable cheap service (again, it would cost more to swap services in terms of dev time) :)

    URL Shortner: https://ur.lk (Analytics, tracking, QR codes, passwords and whole lot more...)

  • decay said: I havent come accross any demos on how to use that yet

    You can code your own or use a script like https://sendy.co/

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  • jarjar Provider
    edited April 2015

    decay said: Right, so long as i send under 10k/day (not just gmail, but statistically most of it would be), you wouldnt be too annoyed? Is there a solution for larger numbers? Maybe adding few dedicated IP addresses if i need to send more than 10k/day? Or would you recommend that i use a different service if i need to send that many emails (dw, i wont be offended)? The main thing im trying to do is to find a cheap reliable service that i can use to send emails, so it doesnt make much difference if its MXRoute, or mandrill or amazon etc on my end, so long as i get a reliable cheap service (again, it would cost more to swap services in terms of dev time) :)

    Sounds good to me, and I always let people know if a problem arises. Generally the first thing I'll do is block your domain from sending to the specific server causing a problem (no harm, since they're already blocking you, I just don't want them blocking anyone else). I will say, however, that Amazon's service is probably more reliable than me right now. I don't like admitting that, but MXroute is going through a big transition to high availability and the number of random hiccups this causes seem to be plentiful.

    Sometimes I wish I was less honest.... but it doesn't benefit anyone to say I can handle things and do a poor job of it afterward.

    Thanked by 2earl deadbeef

    "Note that Romania has laws agains all the illegal activities just like US, including copyright. Is not the Dracula's country or no man's land as you thought." - Random email from someone I don't know, about nothing I've done or said

  • @decay said:
    If anyone have more info on this, let me know :)

    The provide an API and a standard SMTP gateway. Take a look at the docs.

  • earlearl Member

    @Jar

    A+ for honesty Jar.. I would much rather hear the truth then empty promises..

    Thanked by 3jar deadbeef MikePT
  • DavidxDavidx Member
    edited April 2015

    Jar said: Sometimes I wish I was less honest....

    One of the many reasons that compelled me to do a migration to MXroute recently was due to your honesty. We all screw up at some points, but what makes great people different from everyone else is those who admit it and are actively working on a solution.

    Thanked by 2jar MikePT
  • Its not so much volume = abuse, it is the number of abuse reports that volume generates.

    It is a sad fact that it may well be a harmless and innocent app however it only takes a few idiots (or hotmail) to ruin your day.

    I think it was about 3 years ago now I had to send a massive amount of email for a customer (expected and wanted email to none free domains) it would have cost a ton of money with the options available at the time so instead I just created a 5 VPS in each location, essentially cloned them until I ended up with about 25 - 30 (cant remember the exact number that actually got used) and used round robin to load balance and constantly BL monitored just in case.

    Was actually fairly simple to do, but these days so many cheap options exist it is pretty pointless to use VPS's for this.

    Thanked by 2MikePT Maounique

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com

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