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OVH threatens to leave France if proposed surveilance bill passes
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OVH threatens to leave France if proposed surveilance bill passes

RalliasRallias Member, Provider

Five popular French web hosting providers, including Gandi and OVH, said on Thursday that the new French intelligence bill might push them to leave the country (French) in order not to lose their customers. The five companies are protesting against the "real-time capture of data connection" and their analysis by the intelligence services using "+black boxes+ with blurred lines". The web hosting providers believe that this project "will not reach its goal and will potentially put every French citizen under surveillance, that will result in the destruction of a major segment of the economy of our country," by pushing their customers to turn to other less intrusive territories. If the bill is passed as it is, "we have to move our infrastructure, our investments and our employees where our customers want to work with us". The companies have provided a listing of dozen cities where they "will suppress jobs instead of creating new ones."; "These are thousands of jobs (...) that startups and large companies will also create elsewhere," they add. The press release was addressed to the French Prime Minister, Manuel Valls, and was co-signed by Gandu, OVH, IDS, Ikoula and Lomaco.

From slashdot.

Your thoughts?

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Comments

  • Thanked by 2gestiondbi sc754

    Different.

  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider

    I know. To be honest, I kinda want to see the implementation details of such a move. They've got a fuckton of servers that they'd have to move if such a move were to take place.

  • @Rallias said:
    I know. To be honest, I kinda want to see the implementation details of such a move. They've got a fuckton of servers that they'd have to move if such a move were to take place.

    Oddly I don't see online.net on this. Personally I thought they would have join the flow.
    @bene_online ?

    Thanked by 1oijpghjighoji

    Different.

  • I really doubt OVH would do this. They have such a good deal on power in France, they are unlikely to get such a deal elsewhere.

    Thanked by 1Infinity
  • @MarkTurner said:
    I really doubt OVH would do this. They have such a good deal on power in France, they are unlikely to get such a deal elsewhere.

    Ukraine, Chernobyl.

    Thanked by 1oijpghjighoji

    Different.

  • TinyTunnel_Tom said: Ukraine, Chernobyl.

    Sure but imagine the error rate on everything.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • @MarkTurner said:

    Rumor has it dedis work twice as fast. Intel Atom on overclock

    Different.

  • @MarkTurner said:
    I really doubt OVH would do this. They have such a good deal on power in France, they are unlikely to get such a deal elsewhere.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a9/Electricity-prices-europe.jpg

    I wouldn't be too shocked if Romania was an option, they already have decent infrastructure in place.

    Thanked by 1vpssamy
  • @Steven_F said:
    I wouldn't be too shocked if Romania was an option, they already have decent infrastructure in place.

    I would like Romania

    Thanked by 1oijpghjighoji

    Different.

  • FrankZFrankZ Member
    edited April 2015

    Doesn't France have a law that says you can't move your jobs out of France?
    Let me find and link it ...

    Edit: No they can fire/move them, it just will cost $$$ as said below.

  • @FrankZ said:
    Doesn't France have a law that says you can't move your jobs out of France?
    Let me find and link it ...

    Make them redundant. OVH has the cash

    Different.

  • jnguyenjnguyen Member
    edited April 2015

  • DylanDylan Member
    edited April 2015

    TinyTunnel_Tom said: Oddly I don't see online.net on this. Personally I thought they would have join the flow. @bene_online ?

    They couldn't, even if they wanted to. Online.net's parent company owns the second-largest ISP and fourth-largest mobile phone provider in France. You can't move those businesses.

    Thanked by 1Maounique
  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider

    FrankZ said: Doesn't France have a law that says you can't move your jobs out of France?

    Let me find and link it ...

    I suspect that there'd be an exception if said jobs couldn't be done in France.

    Thanked by 1FrankZ
  • @Dylan said:
    They couldn't, even if they wanted to. Online.net's parent company owns the second-largest ISP and fourth-largest mobile phone provider in France. You can't move those businesses.

    Fair point TBH. But im sure Online would loose a lot of business

    Thanked by 2oijpghjighoji frank

    Different.

  • @jnguyen said:

    F*ck off please.

    Different.

  • The truth is almost every EU country has heavy surveillance going on. If France gets away with then other countries will too. Some are already far more draconian.

    Will this surveillance be limited to servers or infrastructure terminating into France, or will be also traffic passing through France. Of course it will be all traffic flow into or across the country. So thats a lot of EU-wide traffic irrespective.

    Thanked by 1Infinity
  • @TinyTunnel_Tom said:
    Ukraine, Chernobyl.

    The Tarkovskian Zone. Infinite bandwidth, miraculous I/O and the total realization of desire. Price is free, join at your own risk.

  • @MarkTurner said:
    I really doubt OVH would do this. They have such a good deal on power in France, they are unlikely to get such a deal elsewhere.

    Why stop at France? Better leave Canada too seeing as how 'Bill C-51' is arguably the worst of them all.

  • @HostNun said:
    Why stop at France? Better leave Canada too seeing as how 'Bill C-51' is arguably the worst of them all.

    Seeing as support is dropping like a stone, I don't see what they have to worry about.

    Devops Consultant | GitHub

  • NyrNyr Member

    They will not leave, but it's a nice gesture anyway.

    Thanked by 2Infinity J1021
  • If OVH left France...

    image

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  • @StartledPhoenix said:
    Seeing as support is dropping like a stone, I don't see what they have to worry about.

    Well, that's good. I haven't been keeping up with developments on it, but I remember hearing last month that the extent of its encroachment (as initially planned at least) was worse than anything else out there.

    @Nyr said:
    They will not leave, but it's a nice gesture anyway.

    Beau Geste Node

  • I think Bruce Schneier sums up the general issue well, where security and encryption will either allow everyone or no one to peek at data, and it seems that national government's insist on taking a peek. There's no good or bad reasons, there's just the ability to or not.

    It's one thing to leave France, another to find a suitable alternative.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    Should OVH leave France to any other country with no government subsided electricity from their nice and shiny French power plants they would have to raise the prices.
    Since people are with OVH mostly because of an extraordinary cheap price, I don't see them doing that move, as this would be the main reason for Customer migration, not the surveillance, IMHO.

    This are just 'negotiations'.

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  • its sad that the people of france have not learned from the mistakes that american's made. We got hit with a terroirst attack yes people died but removing our freedoms is really just letting the terriorst win.

  • jarjar Provider

    @Rallias said:
    I know. To be honest, I kinda want to see the implementation details of such a move. They've got a fuckton of servers that they'd have to move if such a move were to take place.

    Thankfully, shipping containers are easy to move.

    Thanks I'm here all night!

  • MaouniqueMaounique Member
    edited April 2015

    ricardo said: There's no good or bad reasons, there's just the ability to or not.

    Exactly, my data is my data and I dont want to share it by default.

    Clouvider said: no government subsided electricity

    Romania has no subsidies (even for households have been almost wiped out at EU request), more than 16 % of the power need is nuclear, about the same renewable, the nuclear can be tripled (2 reactors out of 6 are done only) and renewables are growing extremely fast, especially the wind on existing projects, but with recent price drops, solar is gaining ground, romania having some of the windiest places in eu (second after UK) and sunshine is also pretty good in places.
    The so-called "big brother laws" have been twice rejected by the constitutional court (so even data retention is illegal), but, unfortunately, that cannot last for long, the CC is under huge pressure, one judge was even arrested, slowly, a russian/US scenario plays out here, the secret services are taking over the government at US and even german pressure. Whether it will be definitive, it remains to be seen, romanians had one of the fiercest dictatorships in Europe and people still remember how it was to "fear thy neighbour for he might tell on you" kind of thing.

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    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • ChuckChuck Member
    edited April 2015

    Deal with it. NSA has been doing it for years. American people haven't done a damn thing to stop it. We are the idiots that paying our tax to the government to surveil us. People are as dumb as pig.

    I like what she said, not what it means.

  • Idle threats.

  • kuzkokuzko Member
    edited April 2015

    The law has been adopted in the late evening in France (i'm french) and will pass with it's full blackbox/terrorism bullshit, so by bouncing between laws, as of it's official journal publication (should be today or in the close future) any administrative entity can get pretty much any info they want on any data if the data goes through/is stored in/belongs to an entity linked to france.

    The french intelligence is impacted too allowing them, if not forbidden by a small council, to proceed to any taping they judge necessary.
    Oh and did I tell you they asked to place blackboxes in major infrastructure analysing traffic/pattern that would match terrorism activities (feels of DPI)? this is why OVH did not want this to pass...

    Ladies and gentleman, welcome the new french patriot act like law.

  • SSDBlazeSSDBlaze Member, Provider

    I think that ovh would honestly consider such a move. However, I dont think OVH will act if it gets passed. They have a really good thing going on... it would cause to much chaos to move all those servers out. Worst thing that happens is they lose a bit of income from people who cancel. Just my predication :)

    They'll do whatever makes them more money most likely. The cost of the bill is not big enough to cause them to move all those servers. I'm interested to see what happens :)

  • frankfrank Member
    edited April 2015

    They are not going to get rid of their existing DC's that would be silly.

    What this bill will probably force though is that there will be no further DC's built or existing ones expanded as the market for French hosting is going to be dented, and they possibly will have to lower prices even further to make them attractive i.e further undercut the Amsterdam/German low cost providers. As to any further investment OVH does guess they build a DC in a neighbouring territory e.g. Amsterdam (or Possibly London) as a result of this.

    This could well kill off a few of the smaller companies though, as they possibly dont have the resources to build a DC away from France. Online.net though are screwed given their parent company situation, guess we may have even sillier offers from them in the future.

  • I think this is just their way to say "give us even more subsidies, or else...". It seems the French have reinvented the communism.

    -

  • MaouniqueMaounique Member
    edited April 2015

    rds100 said: It seems the French have reinvented the communism.

    They had a big hand in the inventing of communism 1.0 also.
    Nah, they wont move, but it is likely will go east a bit with new projects, perhaps even romania, many people speak french here and so far the censorship laws are pretty liberal, not even the mandatory EU data retention is in place yet, still stuck and struck down in the constitutional court.
    Power is cheap, land almost free, so, if they dont come will be missing a serious opportunity.
    However, the russian threat is very present here, so, maybe not until after the war if there will be anything left.

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • rds100rds100 Member
    edited April 2015

    Maounique said: not even the mandatory EU data retention

    This was overruled by the EU court by the way. http://www.loc.gov/law/help/eu-data-retention-directive/eu.php

    -

  • MaouniqueMaounique Member
    edited April 2015

    Yeah, but each time it was put into law, it was struck down at the CC level even when was not yet reversed at EU court, so, it as only briefly into place. The government vowed to sneak it past the court somehow, when the american envoy was here, one judge has been forced to resign for "corruption" and the majority for freedom may be threatened if 2 more are replaced. or "convinced" to do the "right thing" for god and "the greater good" and ignore constitution, human rights and democracy

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • vfusevfuse Member, Provider

    Maybe OVH will start a DC in belgium since they already speak french in the wollonian part of belgium. Tho Belgium does have some issues with electricity a few months ago.

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  • vfuse said: Tho Belgium does have some issues with electricity a few months ago.

    NL also had, so many other countries, that is why datacenters have redundant and inhouse generation.

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • WilliamWilliam Member, Provider

    Tho Belgium does have some issues with electricity a few months ago.

    If you call that "issues" you have never seen a DC in India or Africa - Weekly (if not daily) genset starts and monthly replacement of UPS batteries are the norm there...

  • vfusevfuse Member, Provider

    @Maounique said:

    Not like Belgium, they actually had an electricity forecast after the weather.

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  • RalliasRallias Member, Provider

    Maounique said: perhaps even romania,

    Wishful thinking.

    There's multiple countries between France and Romania with a heightened French-speaking population. Luxembourg, Belgium, Switzerland... hell, maybe they can move to Monaco.

  • creepcreep Member

    @wojons said:
    its sad that the people of france have not learned from the mistakes that american's made. We got hit with a terroirst attack yes people died but removing our freedoms is really just letting the terriorst win.

    uhm what? does america really got attacked by terrorists ?

    You're so tight, baby.

  • @olesovhcom just tweeted that there have been some last minute changes to the law adopted yesterday. No more "economic impact on our industry", he says.

    That should allow them to stay in France ;-)

  • AmitzAmitz Member
    edited April 2015

    @dynweb said:
    olesovhcom just tweeted that there have been some last minute changes to the law adopted yesterday. No more "economic impact on our industry", he says.

    That should allow them to stay in France ;-)

    He should rename himself from "Octave Klaba" to "Octave Blabla"...

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  • @Amitz said:
    He should rename himself from "Octave Klaba" to "Octava Blabla"...

    I'd be interested in what these supposed last-minute changes are.

    Anyway, does anybody know an alternative to their VPS offering outside France which includes IPv6 and DDoS-protection for just €2/month?

    I recommend Prometeus, the best provider ever!

  • @mpkossen said:
    Anyway, does anybody know an alternative to their VPS offering outside France which includes IPv6 and DDoS-protection for just €2/month?

    UK @ £2.50 = https://zare.co.uk/cloud

    Different.

  • No IPv6, unless I tunnel it, and more expensive. Still a great deal, though.

    I recommend Prometeus, the best provider ever!

  • @mpkossen said:
    No IPv6, unless I tunnel it, and more expensive. Still a great deal, though.

    Odd thing is they have private IPv6, can't be hard to route a /64 or an /80 can it?

    Different.

  • IDK, they said it would be coming eventually but isn't available yet.

    I recommend Prometeus, the best provider ever!

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