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Using a Thin Client as a local LEB ?!
Hello everybody,
I was looking into setting up a small server at home for simple file-sharing, secure storage and maybe a simple website or two. So I started researching and my first though was a Intel Atom. But looking at the prices (complete system for around 200€) I reconsidered and looked at something used. It was then when I found a few thin clients for around 22€ (28$), which look like a good bargain. To be more precise I found a "Igel Thin Client 5/4 3210 LX VIA CPU 800 MHz 256MB-RAM / 128MB-Flash"
So my question is, would it be possible to install Debian on one of those things and use it as a simple server ?
I see no problem with it, since AFAIK VIAs are i686-compatible, there is already a small linux on it that I can theoretically replace. The only thing I don't know if those things can boot from USB, but I figure I just can change the CompactFlash-card in that thing if I can't boot from a USB-stick.
Any reply is appreciated.
Comments
It works but you have to modify the hardware. The thing is that the BIOS and OS is saved on a small CF-card that you have to replace. Keep in mind that CF-cards are not so ultra fast for filesharing though. You might have more fun with a real harddisk.
@nabo
I was thinking about just installing the OS onto the CF-card and attaching a HDD or a Stick via USB. Plus I won't store anything big on it, just a backup of my dropbox and a couple of important files I don't want to back-up online.
Well, you have to check if that works then. IGEL systems are not always the same, the producer changes the manufaturer quite often and you sometimes have to info about the manufacturer or the parts printed inside the system. It will be definitely need some time to fiddle out. It's not like using a standard pc and put Linux on it.
I think you will be better with a Small 1U System, Or even a cheap laptop and that attach external storage, Likewise with a raspberry Pi.
@Jacob
That was my first thought, I looked for laptops and cheap server, but either they're more than 50 bucks or have old CPUs that are either slow or need as much power as my fridge. I'm on a very tight budget here and I have to factor in the initial price but also the electricity used.
@nabo
I found some tutorials online, that describe a pretty straight forward approach to install a Debian on a Igel. Ofc they're 3 years old and don't describe the models I can find - so I don't know how current or possible it is. Do you have any recent experience?
My last IGEL experience is from 2009. I had to replace the CF-card, install a jumper to make a HDD work. Have a look at the PSU, it will heat very much. I've installed a passive cooling. The USB didn't work out as it might sound: you could initially boot from CD but could not install. I then had to put the netboot-Debian on the disk and boot from there. Then the installed network-card wasn't compatible with Debian. I had to install a PCI-netcard. That was problematic because the space was to small for a standard PCI-card, so I had to cut off the case.
Yes, it took some time.
In the end, better take a Slug.
I did a test on an old hp thinclient (cant remember model right now) and it worked. I used an old 2.5" drive that i used inside it. cant remember if it did have the ide connector already or if i used some converter.
found some guide online that i followed.
nice little nas. low power and reasonably (60 gb) storage. 128 mb ram if i remember correct.
I tried that with a couple of no-brand thin clients (VIA CPU 800 MHz, 128 Mb Ram). They all work perfectly with Debian or even with Windows xp; the OEM VIA motherboard was pretty common at the start of the century. You need to replace the proprietary flash disk with a standard IDE laptop hard drive. Optical drive is missing, and most certainly Bios will not support boot from USB CD. You need to setup a network install. I took a shoutcut and installed the OS on a old laptop, then I transferred the disk to the thin client. The VIA CPU has a 486-like instruction set. The only mayor problem was the very small IDE disk. I now use a HP Microserver. Check online retailers, they sometimes put this HP baby server on heavy discount. I bought mine for 120 EUR, new with full manufacturer warranty. It is very quiet, and CPU has virtualization support.
There are VIA WM8650/8505 (and others), which are not.
The thing with this sort of endeavors, is finding if there's a hack community around a particular model, and is there documentation, downloadable kernel images, etc, already prepared by someone. So if you have found complete HOWTOs for this particular machine, then absolutely go ahead, why not.
They seem quite underpowered and expensive
That is way out of my budget ^^
Not for the particular model unfortunately, just for some other older model
You are better off using an old desktop or laptop.
As I wrote before old desktops or laptops are either slow or need as much power as my fridge.
Well, you could use a router that can run openwrt... (with USB and such)
The problem with those is, that they're usually underpowered, not a full debian and they're not really cheaper !
Just came across this one and remembered this thread
Intel Atom N230, 1GB RAM, 1Gbit NIC...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Optiplex-FX160-2GB-nVRAM-1-GB-RAM-XPe-OS-Intel-Atom-FREE-SHIPPING-/180894477628?pt=Desktop_PCs&hash=item2a1e26ad3c
Thanks for posting this, but im in the EU
@Kuro looks like an awesome machine, wish it had a 330 instead of the 230 though and the 2GB disk space isn't a whole lot even with XPe.
How about one of these boards to build your own?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/170691750936
Like this one Joe? I'm tempted! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/330738108704
@Deor The goal was to buy something really cheap, like under 30 or 40$, the board alone is 85$. That's why I was looking at thin clients. You can find them cheap with decent specs.
Wait (and wait, and wait, and wait...) and get a RasPi.
That's what I'm doing, but it takes ages + if I want more than one, cheap Thin clients are available at any time.
As per your request, I share my experience here.
Yeah, it is the exact machine I have, at least the specs.
The NIC is compatible with debian 6, booting from USB card is working tho you have to cycle through emulations as not all cards are made equal, everything is recognized out of the box, but I installed a 4 GB CF 266x card which was slower than I expected.
Also 1 GB memory from an old laptop, but had some troubles with that as only 533 mhz ones seem to work. Later I saw a 800 mhz one working but 512 MB in another exact copy of that machine.
I also experimented with external drives (sticks or USB hdd) as / partition while using the initial 128 MB one as /boot. It is also possible to boot directly from external devices and load os from there, worked seamlessly.
Since I had a 16 GB CF around tried to see if win 7 will work, but while it did boot didnt want to install on that, probably was just under the limit. XP works well, either from USB (modified) also from compact flash, just needs drivers for sound and video, nic is via rhine II iirc.
The USB slots (4) are decent, I plugged hard drives and wireless adapters including GSM and CDMA ones, had no issues with them.
Regarding overheating, yeah, that is a problem, over 26-27 degrees and you start having stability issues on higher loads such as heavy video playback. It can also do a bit of overclocking, 5%, 10% and 15 iirc, but only 10 was stable enough during the winter at about 20 celsius with case open, if you want it closed, OC is a no-no. It has AES hardware so it is pretty quick if you want to use it as NAS with that kind of encryption, but network throughput is somewhat lacking, couldnt even max out the wireless G not even at half, was about 40% in average which is worse than a lowend router, didnt manage to understand where was the bottleneck.
I got it for 30 EUR with the 4 GB CF tho as a bundle.
I only regret they run out of stock, ppl saw it and instantly wanted one, I can sell it for 50+ EUR now but it does have 1 GB ram.
M
I have an older thin client with a via processor @800 MHz 128Mb flash ide and 512mb ram.. The only OS that worked right off the bat was Tiny core which installed at under 64mb of the available 128mb everything else seemed to have problems either installing or booting after the install.. and the unit does get quite hot at times..
Yeah, 128 is not gonna make it these days, besides it's painfully slow.
Can use it either as /boot or replaced with something 4 gb+ for a usable system. It will still be slow, but with an USB HDD things get much improved. My setup has 160 GB external HDD and is enough to run 2xIPCop as virtual machines (1 GB ram has the host) to route the wireless connections into the local network with VMWare server, as well as radio player and command and control center for the whole network when I am logging in remotely. I also have a second HDD 1.5 TB on USB for NAS. Whole rig (except the big hdd which has own power) uses 24 Watt at max, with heavy transfer and encryption, normally below 18 Watt and idle below 10. Well worth it for what it does. I am only worried somewhat because of the overheating, when I was running a windows guest used to crash once or twice a week and CPU was most of the time at full. With 2 IPCops mostly idle is at 30-40% and only goes above 80 when I transfer something to it. Didnt crash since i offloaded the win vm to another server.
M
Right now tiny core is booting off a 16gb USB drive that I bought for $9.. works reasonably quick since it's usb 2.0, I have chromium installed with flash, youtube plays but it's a bit choppy. Would like to get a 2gb flash ide but it's kinda expensive and not sure it would actually fit with the cover on. Overall it works pretty good considering it only uses an average of 15 watt..
If it is flash,then might not be fast. I installed Debian on an USB key and was awful, however 2.5 HDD is faster than internal CF 266x, I can say, much faster. Also choppiness disappears with real hdd, I was able to play youtube (everything but HD) without any problems, but the usage stays above 80% and rarely reaches 100% so it is maxed out.
M