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Idea: tunnled ipv4
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Idea: tunnled ipv4

I know about ipv4 and know about gre tunnels but this thread is about the question could a ipv4 tunnel be used to make a vps in Europe more cost effective?

as i think the ipv6 could be local but the ipv4 could be in an arin area to save on costs and provide cheap Europe vps's.

as it only adds about 100 to 120ms of ping so would not be unusable to people even with game servers like minecraft and sa-mp but only affect stuff like cod badly so it could be a good trade off.

I hope you like my ideas and i would like to be part of lowendtalk as i want to bring politeness to lowendtalk and customer respect.

Matthew Morgan

Comments

  • wychwych Member
    edited May 2014

    In theory yes, but as you said ping can kill the connection.

    If you did it on a large scale im also not sure what ARIN would have to say about you porting their IP's over to the EU.

    Taking a hiatus.

  • trexostrexos Member

    Only 100-120ms :P

    OnePoundWebHosting.co.uk | UK XEN VPS from £2 | See their special offers starting from 12£/year here

  • @wych said:
    In theory yes, but as you said ping can kill the connection.

    If you did it on a large scale im also not sure what ARIN would have to say about you porting their IP's over to the EU.

    Gre only runs as a proxy so your not porting but passing traffic via an end zone like how tunnel broker works.

  • @trexos said:
    Only 100-120ms :P

    Can you please tell me the issue with that?

    As even most gameservers like minecraft are only noticeable lag at about 500ms to 600ms ping.

  • wychwych Member
    edited May 2014

    @mtwiscool said:
    Gre only runs as a proxy so your not porting but passing traffic via an end zone like how tunnel broker works.

    Im aware of what they are.

    I am just not sure how you could clear it with a DC or ARIN for that many IP's to do it on a large scale...

    Taking a hiatus.

  • Might as well just get a USA server then?

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • @wych said:
    I am just not sure how you could clear it with a DC or ARIN for that many IP's to do it on a large scale...

    It's not lickly on a large scale and whats the issue with a VPN?

    As i do not see anything in arin not allowing hosting via VPN.

  • wychwych Member

    @mtwiscool said:
    As i do not see anything in arin not allowing hosting via VPN.

    Ok then... Best of Luck.

    Taking a hiatus.

  • @linuxthefish said:
    Might as well just get a USA server then?

    As i told you on skype servers in the US cost more then Europe.
    And with the race to the bottom thing on lowendtalk i need to keep costs down as low as possible.

    And i run other projects.

  • wychwych Member

    @mtwiscool said:
    And i run other projects.

    How will you deal with the GeoLocation issues?

    Taking a hiatus.

  • @wych said:
    How will you deal with the GeoLocation issues?

    To be honest i don't care if it says USA as the ip location does not matter too much.
    I'm just surprised at the lack of tunneled ipv4 vps's they are as it allows you to have less overheads.

  • trexostrexos Member

    @mtwiscool said:

    Just get an US server then? Why would need an EU vps if you dont have the advantage of better connection?

    OnePoundWebHosting.co.uk | UK XEN VPS from £2 | See their special offers starting from 12£/year here

  • MatthewMMatthewM Member
    edited May 2014

    @trexos said:
    Just get an US server then? Why would need an EU vps if you dont have the advantage of better connection?

    The answer is simple.
    Servers in the EU are cheaper then the US but ip's are more costly so what is the solution?

  • wychwych Member

    @mtwiscool said:
    To be honest i don't care if it says USA as the ip location does not matter too much.

    Im sure your clients that purchase a EU server will love the USA IP.

    @mtwiscool said:
    I'm just surprised at the lack of tunneled ipv4 vps's they are as it allows you to have less overheads.

    Latency.

    @trexos said:
    Just get an US server then? Why would need an EU vps if you dont have the advantage of better connection?

    And this...

    UK -> US -> EU and back to a VPS would be a killer latency.

    Taking a hiatus.

  • earlearl Member

    I think there would be a market for a 4in6 tunnel service if the price was cheap enough.. most Dedi/vps's come with ipv6 now. if someone were to offer cheap 4in6 service then it would offer an alternative to purchasing IP's directly from your host.

  • @earl said:
    I think there would be a market for a 4in6 tunnel service if the price was cheap enough.. most Dedi/vps's come with ipv6 now. if someone were to offer cheap 4in6 service then it would offer an alternative to purchasing IP's directly from your host.

    I've had this idea for a few months but thought that people would already doing it.
    But it could drive ip prices back down to offset the price rises coming with more competition.

    I think this is a vary good idea a would change the lowendmarket.

  • earlearl Member

    If anyone wants to buy it lowend4in6.com is available.

  • trexostrexos Member

    Well in fact I'm ready using GRE tunnelling already from US to NL. But not in production due high pings.

    OnePoundWebHosting.co.uk | UK XEN VPS from £2 | See their special offers starting from 12£/year here

  • earlearl Member

    Yeah I find it odd that free v6 tunnels is everywhere but no real 4in6 provider at all.. I'm sure you can make a decent amount of money selling 4in6 services even to small niche market like LEB.

  • @trexos said:
    Well in fact I'm ready using GRE tunnelling already from US to NL. But not in production due high pings.

    Why is 100ms to 120ms too high?
    You need to be realistic about what ping is needed as most things it does not matter that much.

  • InfinityInfinity Member, Provider

    Crappy idea and some companies already announce ARIN IP's directly in Europe like Vultr..

    Thanked by 1rm_

    Cablestreet - London based ISP - Managed Solutions, Carrier Services, Colocation, Dedicated Servers, VMs, and more..

  • trexostrexos Member

    @Infinity said:
    Crappy idea and some companies already announce ARIN IP's directly in Europe like Vultr..

    Why don't they lose their subnets? Thought it was forbidden.

    OnePoundWebHosting.co.uk | UK XEN VPS from £2 | See their special offers starting from 12£/year here

  • @Infinity said:
    Crappy idea and some companies already announce ARIN IP's directly in Europe like Vultr..

    It is not allowed to announce ARIN IP's in Europe and doing so can get the ip space revoked.

  • InfinityInfinity Member, Provider

    @trexos said:
    Why don't they lose their subnets? Thought it was forbidden.

    It is forbidden but many companies still do it, I'm not an expert on ARIN at all but I don't think they care with larger companies and old blocks being used outside of the region. If you try and get a new block for use you won't get it.

    Cablestreet - London based ISP - Managed Solutions, Carrier Services, Colocation, Dedicated Servers, VMs, and more..

  • @Infinity said:
    It is forbidden but many companies still do it, I'm not an expert on ARIN at all but I don't think they care with larger companies and old blocks being used outside of the region. If you try and get a new block for use you won't get it.

    Thats why my idea is to just VPN traffic to the US as it would be using the ip's in the US (I love loopholes)

  • taronyutaronyu Member

    @mtwiscool said:

    500ms is horrible in FPS games. Everything above 100 isn't playable anymore. And everything above 50 if you are a competitive player.

    Servitor.io - Server and website monitoring. Free to use!

  • wychwych Member

    @taronyu said:

    One fine use case, granted the average joe wanting to host his own site wouldnt care but TTL responses etc could be ugly too.

    Taking a hiatus.

  • @taronyu said:

    120ms should be a ok ping for most uses of the vps's.

  • InfinityInfinity Member, Provider

    @mtwiscool said:
    Thats why my idea is to just VPN traffic to the US as it would be using the ip's in the US (I love loopholes)

    It's a crappy idea nevertheless and not thought through well. IP's in the US aren't going to be cheap for long, once it's all gone you really think the providers that horded the IP's won't jack the prices up?

    And who on earth would want a server in Europe take feels like it's in the US, just buy a server from bloody America in the first place.

    Thanked by 1perennate

    Cablestreet - London based ISP - Managed Solutions, Carrier Services, Colocation, Dedicated Servers, VMs, and more..

  • earlearl Member

    I think it would make a good business.. VPS's sell like hot cakes, if you can offer an add-on to a saturated market where everyone has the potential to use your service then technically it should do well, considering there is no competition.. you are also promoting an easier transition to ipv6 so people would be more incline to try it out, cause currently v6 only vps is somewhat limited in use.

    Granted tunneling from the US to the UE is probably not a good idea so you should offer different locations.

  • MatthewMMatthewM Member
    edited May 2014

    @earl said:
    I think it would make a good business.. VPS's sell like hot cakes, if you can offer an add-on to a saturated market where everyone has the potential to use your service then technically it should do well, considering there is no competition.. you are also promoting an easier transition to ipv6 so people would be more incline to try it out, cause currently v6 only vps is somewhat limited in use.

    Granted tunneling from the US to the UE is probably not a good idea so you should offer different locations.

    It's ware the ips are cheapest.

  • wychwych Member

    @mtwiscool said:
    It's ware the ips are cheapest.


    @Infinity said:
    IP's in the US aren't going to be cheap for long, once it's all gone you really think the providers that horded the IP's won't jack the prices up?

    Taking a hiatus.

  • @wych said:

    IP's in the US aren't going to be cheap for long, once it's all gone you really think the providers that horded the IP's won't jack the prices up?

    they will still be cheapest then ripe.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    Would this IP routing be part of your globe-spanning, poverty-eliminating wifi network plan?

    I still don't see the SSID here...

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • @raindog308 said:
    Would this IP routing be part of your globe-spanning, poverty-eliminating wifi network plan?

    I still don't see the SSID here...

    The WIFI project is waiting for building list for wireless telecoms use.

  • earlearl Member

    Within reason it don't matter what the IP's cost you.. it will ultimately get passed down to your consumer, so they end up paying for it.. if the price of IP's rise then everyone will raise their IP prices as well so technically you would still be competitive..

    With such a huge market and very little competition it should do well..

  • MonsteRMonsteR Member
    edited May 2014

    @mtwiscool said:
    Servers in the EU are cheaper then the US but ip's are more costly so what is the solution?

    USA bandwidth, Servers and IPs are cheaper then the EU in general, EU is more expensive due to the tax, currency and the fact its more costly within the EU in general, Although you can get cheap places in the EU and USA with many budget providers appearing the US will still be the cheaper option.

    RaptorNode.com - DDoS Protected|VPS|Cloud|Dedicated Servers|Collocation - Los Angeles, CA
    SamuraiBit Security
  • USA bandwidth, Servers and IPs are cheaper then the EU in general

    The first one is nothing but total bullshit. EU = 90% traffic peered off at public IXPs.

    US, yeah, good luck.

    -- BOFH

  • MonsteRMonsteR Member
    edited May 2014

    @Wintereise said:
    US, yeah, good luck.

    Go find me some volumedrive, or dacentec prices within the EU ? As I don't think I have ever seen a dedi for 14.55EUR in the EU accept Kimsufi, But the more desired places NL, Sweden, Germany etc prices aren't as low as within the US.

    RaptorNode.com - DDoS Protected|VPS|Cloud|Dedicated Servers|Collocation - Los Angeles, CA
    SamuraiBit Security
  • France is cheap

  • MonsteRMonsteR Member
    edited May 2014

    @mtwiscool said:
    France is cheap

    Yeah i think OVH/Kimsurfi prices broke the French hosting market. Although personally I would go else where in France for better support.

    RaptorNode.com - DDoS Protected|VPS|Cloud|Dedicated Servers|Collocation - Los Angeles, CA
    SamuraiBit Security
  • IPv4 tunneling service is a very good idea. I have been thinking about it for awhile.

  • @MonsteR said:
    Go find me some volumedrive, or dacentec prices within the EU ? As I don't think I have ever seen a dedi for 14.55EUR in the EU accept Kimsufi, But the more desired places NL, Sweden, Germany etc prices aren't as low as within the US.

    what is wrong with ovh?

  • MonsteRMonsteR Member

    @mtwiscool said:
    what is wrong with ovh?

    The support? Hents why i wouldn't mind paying another french provider more.

    RaptorNode.com - DDoS Protected|VPS|Cloud|Dedicated Servers|Collocation - Los Angeles, CA
    SamuraiBit Security
  • @MonsteR said:

    But is support worth paying 2x as much.

  • MonsteRMonsteR Member

    @mtwiscool said:
    But is support worth paying 2x as much.

    Yup, Wasted 1 month with their support screwing me around(As it was an issue with their cloud) and lost out of the service i paid for, Therefore its worth paying more, to get the service you pay for? Well this is my opinion anyway and this thread isn't about ovh.

    RaptorNode.com - DDoS Protected|VPS|Cloud|Dedicated Servers|Collocation - Los Angeles, CA
    SamuraiBit Security
  • @MonsteR said:
    Yup, Wasted 1 month with their support screwing me around(As it was an issue with their cloud) and lost out of the service i paid for, Therefore its worth paying more, to get the service you pay for? Well this is my opinion anyway and this thread isn't about ovh.

    I never had issues with ovh and they prices undercut almost everyone.

  • WintereiseWintereise Member
    edited May 2014

    Uhh, what?

    If you have a need for 'good support' on what are essentially trash dedis, you have another thing coming for you, really.

    VD support is atrocious, Dacentec is really the only one that's even remotely better than the bunch. However, exceptions do not change stereotypes.

    EU is simple,

    Rent IP space from some romanian company for essentially nothing, announce with a provider like Leaseweb who are cheap as hell to deal with in their volume network and you're pretty much done.

    Thanked by 2raindog308 Zen

    -- BOFH

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