Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!


When a LET member and an owner of a business does wrong?
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

All new Registrations are manually reviewed and approved, so a short delay after registration may occur before your account becomes active.

When a LET member and an owner of a business does wrong?

When a provider does wrong, there are always posts about the provider everywhere by customers. When a community member who is also a customer does wrong, we can't talk because it violates the privacy policy. They can be all total assholes but it's okay because noone is going to say anything to them on public.

Today one LET member did the following:

  • Used the service for months
  • Ran illegal things which resulted DMCA complaints
  • Violated the TOS by running forbidden software
  • Received lots of DDoS attacks which resulted total node downtime numerous times
  • When his IP is nullrouted, he charged back.

This person runs a VPN "business". He has services with almost every low end host here.

How terrible is not being able to name and shaming this person?!

/rant

«1345

Comments

  • That sounds like shovenose.

    Thanked by 1Pwner
  • that risk you advertise in here

    Thanked by 2kerouac MannDude
  • We've had such customers too. Violate our AUP and TOS, and when they get suspended, charge a dispute, and if they think nothing's going to come out of it, escalate it to a claim. I think this is extremely unfair.

  • Some of your points are true but in the end it is the user which mostly suffers.So in most cases it is the fault of providers.

  • Well, you can amend your TOS/Privacy Policy to include something about loss of privacy in case of fraud/abuse/whatever you feel like. However, if you do post any information, you'll still get lynched here like Damian did.

    You can use something like FraudRecord so at least other providers have the ability to see what that customer has been up to, although I'm sure most providers don't check it for every client.

  • Same thing happened to us. Customer even posted a negative review and some members of the community sided with said customer.

  • rds100rds100 Member
    edited February 2014

    Well, the privacy laws are there to protect the privacy of persons. Similar to the consumer protection laws, which protect the rights of the consumers, i.e. persons. The consumer protection laws do not protect companies from other companies. The same should be valid for the privacy protection laws.

    I.e. if your customer was a company and not a person then you should be able to disclose the details without breaking any privacy laws.

    Thanked by 1Pwner
  • serverianserverian Member
    edited February 2014

    @rds100 said:
    Well, the privacy laws are there to protect the privacy of persons. Similar to the consumer protection laws, which protect the rights of the consumers, i.e. persons. The consumer protection laws do not protect companies from other companies. The same should be valid for the privacy protection laws.

    I.e. if your customer was a company and not a person then you should be able to disclose the details without breaking any privacy laws.

    Honestly, it's not even about the law. It's ethical.

    I never would want to hurt anyone's business. Why would they do it to us providers when they have the fault 100%?!

    I've just filed a fraud record for other providers to beware because I know the same thing will happen to them as well soon or later by this guy.

    Thanked by 1ryanarp
  • @serverian said:
    I've just filed a fraud record for other providers to beware because I know the same thing will happen to them as well soon or later by this guy.

    This is the right thing to do.

  • PwnerPwner Member
    edited February 2014

    I think you should be allowed to given the abusive stance this consumer carries. Ethically, it is important for Person A to inform Person B about Person C's bad history if it will save Person B from taking financial damage or taking a hit in their business. It's kinda funny how our legal system is based off of ethics, but in the process of defending the consumer, they seemed to have forgotten to add this crucial piece in.

  • In my humble opinion, said person should not be publicly criticized here because they are a bad customer and you know their nickname. It's not much different from publicly bashing a customer by giving their name and surname here.

    So whatever policy that exists, seems rightful.

  • @kerouac said:
    In my humble opinion, said person should not be publicly criticized here because they are a bad customer and you know their nickname. It's not much different from publicly bashing a customer by giving their name and surname here.

    So whatever policy that exists, seems rightful.

    It's not about bashing. It's about making other providers aware of this guy.

  • @serverian said:
    It's not about bashing. It's about making other providers aware of this guy.

    It needn't be bashing. Mentioning a customer by his nickname here is just like mentioning one by real name publicly anywhere. It could be someone who uses his online persona widely, which can link to his actual identity.

    That wouldn't be ethical.

    Thanked by 1k0nsl
  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    We also have whole bunch of LET-orgin users which just used our service and "forgot" to pay. Maybe we can create LowEndCustomerBlacklist or something?

  • said: he charged back.

    You know, it's one thing to just be a TOS-violating user but accepting that your behavior might result in your account being closed without refund, but being a long-term customer that causes the provider a lot of hassle and then charging back when you behavior causes a standard nullroute is a new level of dickery

  • gbshouse said: We also have whole bunch of LET-orgin users which just used our service and "forgot" to pay. Maybe we can create LowEndCustomerBlacklist or something?

    Yeah, this is kinda different, especially when you run a freemium service that can effortlessly roll over from 'free' to 'paid' tier

  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    I'm not sure how it's different. I'm not talking about large bills 2-3EUR max. My point is that's a little bit rude from their side as we are still members of the same community and I would expect some kind of ethics. Or maybe I'm just wrong ...

    Thanked by 1Mark_R
  • @serverian name and shame!

    Thanked by 1Mark_R
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    It is easy to kick a host without fear of any real consequences. . So people do.

    No different to school yard bullying imo.

    Sadly fraud record is only useful for new orders it does not tell you when someone went from green light to red later on.

  • That's just the privacy policy, unless you want to put up a public shame list like FortaTrust's.

  • gbshouse said: We also have whole bunch of LET-orgin users which just used our service and "forgot" to pay.

    Is you service pre-paid?

  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    @vedran - nope, pay-as-you-go

  • @gbshouse said:
    vedran - nope, pay-as-you-go

    Suspend upon reaching the limit for users who didn't added a payment option and filing a charge for those who does(paypal, account funds, credit card)?

  • Is the "business" a separate legal entity? If so then there is no privacy to violate.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    A business MUST be a separate entity under the law. If it is not, then it is not a business not in the legal way at least in Europe, Americans were always weird. Even authorized persons which are here special kind of businesses such as doctors, lawyers, architects, must keep their business income and expense separate from private for taxation reasons.

  • concerto49concerto49 Member
    edited February 2014

    .

  • The co-owner of the company has just contacted me and explained me the situation after seeing this thread and sincerely apologized for the trouble.

    It was a poor decision and mistake by his business partner and he assured me to take the control on his hands for events like these and make sure never happen in the future.

    I've accepted his apology.

    Let the bygones be bygones.

  • GunterGunter Member
    edited February 2014

    I can't tell how ridiculously obvious you've made it out to be. There's only 2 VPN providers on all of LET, 1 of them active.

    Servian, you've effectively violated user privacy in one of the least professional ways ways possible, a forum rant. if it was far more broad, it might have been acceptable but this really isn't. You have effectively outlined many points of their operation and the level of service you've provided for their specific case.

    Please don't do this again.

    Thanked by 1kerouac
  • LeeLee Veteran
    edited February 2014

    However "unfair" it may seem the correct way is not to disclose who it was. Of course @serverian knows fine well by making this thread he has already provided enough detail to perhaps have caused a few twitching nerves of the member who is waiting to see if he/she ends up being named.

    When a provider does wrong and a thread appears on here about it, that providers reputation largely dictates where the community leans early on until there is enough evidence to the contrary. We have all seen them, "HostX did shit to me" but HostX is well regarded and the OP get's crushed unless he has very good reason. then you get "HostY did shit to me" and everyone crushes HostY because their reputation is questionable or a CC brand.

    Just because you know this person as an LET member and business owner does not make them any more or less noteworthy. I am sure you have had others but they were not so obviously identifiable.

    So perhaps that is the lesson for all providers, your reputation can protect you or at least the community will give you time to demonstrate why they hold your reputation in high regard before crushing you :P

  • @serverian now i understand the reason why you afraid of me when i want to signup too much services at once

Sign In or Register to comment.