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digicube.fr cancellation - is this serious?
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digicube.fr cancellation - is this serious?

johnlth93johnlth93 Member
edited November 2013 in Help

So, i got a digicube 8Eur dedi couple weeks ago.

I was thinking well it's cheap, why not just have a try.

After awhile it seem like, well i don't like it =)

So i was thinking not to renew the next month (cancel it) and hence i go around their website and seem that in order to cancel it one must send a letter (LETTER!!!) to their address for it.

Then i contacted their customer service to make sure that this is the case. Below are the respond

11:08:06 Julien rejoint le chat

>

11:08:59 Julien: sorry for the wait

>

11:10:18 Julien: you must send a registered letter dated 40 day before the end of the engagement.

>

11:10:45 Julien: whith your Digi n° and order n°.

>

11:11:11 Julien: You can found all of this information :

https://www.digicube.fr/cgv-digicube.pdf
>

11:57:27 Julien quitte le chat

So what do you think about it? It's very troublesome right?

For those who thinking to order, well i guess you probably won't after seeing this. Unless you think sending a letter and is not a big deal then let it be =)

Sending a letter is not a big deal but why would that needed? Can't an email take care of it? It's just felt so troublesome for me.

Comments

  • Well, there is little love for the mailman today...

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • johnlth93johnlth93 Member
    edited November 2013

    @Maounique said:
    Well, there is little love for the mailman today...

    Well, seem like they prefer the traditional way huh ~

    I foresee to be stuck with digicube for another 2 months at least.

  • I was tempted to try out their deal, but after reading a few reviews on WHT I decided against it.. The part about having to send snail mail to cancel was really the deal breaker!

  • @earl said:
    I was tempted to try out their deal, but after reading a few reviews on WHT I decided against it.. The part about having to send snail mail to cancel was really the deal breaker!

    True to that about the mail

  • Sending a mail from here, might took a month or more, :D

    Thanked by 1vRozenSch00n
  • @Maounique said:
    Well, there is little love for the mailman today...

    There are sites and people who offer that kind of help..for the lonely mailman.

    C, Bash, Perl, Python, PHP, and JS hobbyist. VPS collector. Blog

  • Well, a computer / internet company (or more of this, a hosting company!) that refuses to use technology to deal with clients and want traditional mail... They go for something completely new (as Monty Python would say!)

  • I had a lawsuite about this and won it. European law states that if you accept mail you also have to accept email if you have one. So sending an email with the same data as they want in the mail should be good.

    You can spam me with any yearly shared hosting deal.

  • ztec said: European law states that if you accept mail you also have to accept email if you have one. So sending an email with the same data as they want in the mail should be good.

    Indeed. For the sake of ease, just print out the form they want, sign it, scan it, and email it back to them.

  • @ztec said:
    I had a lawsuite about this and won it. European law states that if you accept mail you also have to accept email if you have one. So sending an email with the same data as they want in the mail should be good.

    Do you have a source for this?

    Thanked by 1tux

    Hi :>

  • drserverdrserver Member, Host Rep

    if you have accepted terms where it stated cancellation will be in paper form, then you have to cancel service in that way as you have agreed to that terms.

    I am sure that someone on this forum lives in france and can do that for you

    Unmetered servers starting from $12.00 USD p/m. Xeon® E-2134 for $50.00 p/m ||| Xeon® Silver 4110 for $80.00 p/m
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  • c0yc0y Member
    edited November 2013

    @OkieDoke said:
    Do you have a source for this?

    @ztec said:
    I had a lawsuite about this and won it. European law states that if you accept mail you also have to accept email if you have one. So sending an email with the same data as they want in the mail should be good.

  • @drserver said:
    if you have accepted terms where it stated cancellation will be in paper form, then you have to cancel service in that way as you have agreed to that terms.

    ^^ This, while I agree it is completely beyond a joke, don't sign up then complain after the fact for failing to pay attention to the terms you entered in to the deal under. :)

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • @c0y anybody can say that they had a lawsuit. I just wanted to know where I can find this information in case I need to use it myself.

    Hi :>

  • ztecztec Member
    edited November 2013

    The therms on that contract also said it had to be ''snailmail'' but for an internet company the 'judge' found that to be very unreasonable. They defended by saying that email is very vulnerable for 'spoofing' but that argument wasn't very effective since they couldn't tell why 'snailmail' would not be vulnerable to this.

    This was in The Netherlands but I remember that the law was also an european law where snailmail and email had the same status of communication. Also for "letter privacy".

    The case was about a hosting company that just kept charging me money while I had canceled my service with them 3 years before that. They even replied to my email where I said I wanted to cancel it. This was also prove in the lawsuite that they read and understood my email perfectly.

    You can spam me with any yearly shared hosting deal.

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider

    @drserver said:
    if you have accepted terms where it stated cancellation will be in paper form, then you have to cancel service in that way as you have agreed to that terms.

    @AnthonySmith said:

    ^^ This, while I agree it is completely beyond a joke, don't sign up then complain after the fact for failing to pay attention to the terms you entered in to the deal under. :)

    In most (all?) EU countries, legislation and court judgment overrule TOS clauses, if they are found "unreasonable". This would be a textbook example of an unreasonable clause.

  • There should be a cancellation button with any online company that has an online contract, especially coming from a company with a shit load of servers. This is bogus.

  • @joepie91 said:
    In most (all?) EU countries, legislation and court judgment overrule TOS clauses, if they are found "unreasonable". This would be a textbook example of an unreasonable clause.

    That's true in most countries, including the US, and it's one of the reasons companies should have a lawyer look over their TOS before they post the TOS on their website.

  • I've had to send a german vps provider a letter with my signature on it requesting cancellation. Also had to pay one extra month, which I wasn't too happy about.

  • drserverdrserver Member, Host Rep

    joepie91 said: In most (all?) EU countries, legislation and court judgment overrule TOS clauses, if they are found "unreasonable". This would be a textbook example of an unreasonable clause.

    Only if that term in TOS is illegal. If you have agreed that you will send letter if you wish to cancel, go and send that letter. You are obligated to do that if you have accepted that. I see nothing unreasonable here. However it is really stupid and funny to send cancellation to ISP via snail mail...

    Rules are rules... stupid rules but still rules

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  • ^^ Agree

    Ramnode (referral link)

  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider

    @drserver said: Only if that term in TOS is illegal. If you have agreed that you will send letter if you wish to cancel, go and send that letter. You are obligated to do that if you have accepted that. I see nothing unreasonable here. However it is really stupid and funny to send cancellation to ISP via snail mail...

    >

    Rules are rules... stupid rules but still rules

    No, not "only if that term is illegal". It applies to any "unreasonable" TOS term, whether it is considered legal or not.

  • @joepie91 said:
    In most (all?) EU countries, legislation and court judgment overrule TOS clauses, if they are found "unreasonable". This would be a textbook example of an unreasonable clause.

    I don't care :) they give you the opportunity to not agree before you hand over a penny, if you don't like it don't sign up, if you do sign up then buy a god damn stamp and send them a letter when you want to cancel.

    The law is never black and white, any judge has some power to decide what is fair and reasonable, if you agree to something and then decide afterwards you don't like it and ALL you have to do is post a letter you probably would not win in court.

    I agree it is a ridiculous policy in this day and age and I would not sign up as a result of it but they are entitled to have it.

    Thanked by 1mpkossen

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • aglodekaglodek Member
    edited December 2013

    Takes but a few minutes' time, and reading a provider's TOS (and other small print) is another way to check on their reliability and quality of service in advance. Another one is to open a sales ticket before ordering and ask some question - see how quickly and to the point they respond ;)

    Anyways, I think it is reasonable for a dedi or colo provider to ask for some advance notice of cancellation, but 40 days is overdoing it. Anything under 30 days is okay, I think. Asking for a signed letter by snail mail - and registered one at that! - is not ridiculous at all. There must be a good reason for this hassle. What this tells me is that the provider has a high customer turnover (read: trouble with customer loyalty) and is trying to squeeze an extra period of service out of each client leaving them. This, on top of very competitive pricing, is a crystal clear sign the service is very likely unsatisfactory in some respect (otherwise why would people jump ship and desert a cheap provider?) and you should think TEN TIMES before giving in to your natural instinct to gamble on getting something for nothing and signing up with them! My 3 cents' worth ;)

    Andrew Glodek | Special Projects Director | 香港國際商務中心 HONG KONG INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS CENTRE
  • joepie91joepie91 Member, Provider

    @AnthonySmith said:
    The law is never black and white, any judge has some power to decide what is fair and reasonable, if you agree to something and then decide afterwards you don't like it and ALL you have to do is post a letter you probably would not win in court.

    There has actually been an almost identical case in Dutch courts some time ago, and it was ruled that even if the TOS say you need to cancel by postal mail, cancelling by e-mail is perfectly valid: https://ictrecht.nl/contracten-en-algemene-voorwaarden/opzeggen-per-mail-is-legaal/

  • skaska Disabled

    @joepie91 said:
    There has actually been an almost identical case in Dutch courts some time ago, and it was ruled that even if the TOS say you need to cancel by postal mail, cancelling by e-mail is perfectly valid: https://ictrecht.nl/contracten-en-algemene-voorwaarden/opzeggen-per-mail-is-legaal/

    Let's not forget that the legal system in NL and FR is quite different. At least in FR court rulings are not binding third parties. And I guess that's also the case in NL. Besides, we don't know if the written letter in this case might be needed not just because of the cancellation itself but maybe because of fulfilling other laws that are connected to commercially renting telecommunication equipment.

    Make:something
  • aglodekaglodek Member
    edited December 2013

    @joepie91 said: There has actually been an almost identical case in Dutch courts some time ago, and it was ruled that even if the TOS say you need to cancel by postal mail, cancelling by e-mail is perfectly valid...

    Unless you are a litigator or a law school student, spending time in court is a colossal waste of time and/or money (on attorney fees). After wasting many days and weeks of my life this way early on in life, in due course I have learned to take a few more minutes' time at problem avoidance (read: paying more attention on what I'm getting myself into ;)

    Andrew Glodek | Special Projects Director | 香港國際商務中心 HONG KONG INTERNATIONAL BUSINESS CENTRE
  • BTW; i know enought providers where you need to send a fax or a latter in germany.
    Thats the old standart but thats normal.

  • Well here are my lets cut through the crap thoughts.

    Yes if you took it to court you have a 'chance' of winning however personally I don't think that chance is very high, they lay out the terms under which they are willing to provide you to take service with them, you agree to these terms which they can provide evidence of.

    Asking someone to send a latter may be draconian in nature however I fail to see how any judge in this specific context could deem it an unreasonable request to send a latter, the only chance I would think you would have is the fact that you can give evidence that they accept communication regarding all other aspects of your account and billing electronically i.e. they only use this clause to ensure revenue is generated for longer than you receive any material gain for the service.

    Bottom line, the choice is yours to sign up, it is not a hidden clause, it is not hard to find, the choice is yours when accepting the terms if you don't like it don't sign up, secondly if you did simply miss it the chances of them actually being able to do a thing about it in terms of enforcement outside of France are slim to none.

    And lastly it is completely stupid and I believe it is simply a way for them to attempt to extract more revenue than they would have been able to otherwise from a service and I believe anyone making you request cancellation via snail mail should also only be allowed to provide service requested by snail mail to begin with.

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • Let's add a real snail to the mail. Might as well give them an extra present.

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  • @concerto49 said:
    Let's add a real snail to the mail. Might as well give them an extra present.

    They are French so it'll probably be received well ;)

    Thanked by 1AnthonySmith
  • You need to install mailman XD

    Thanked by 1Makenai
  • @johnlth93 said:
    So, i got a digicube 8Eur dedi couple weeks ago.

    So i was thinking not to renew the next month (cancel it) and hence i go around their website and seem that in order to cancel it one must send a letter (LETTER!!!) to their address for it.
    Sending a letter is not a big deal but why would that needed? Can't an email take care of it? It's just felt so troublesome for me.

    as the customer service told you it's a registered letter, not only a simple letter. So you have to pay quite more than the price for the regular stamp.
    That will be overruled in court. It makes no difference what they put in their rules page, because in France law comes first. Notice well: the cancellation method, not the cancellation period.
    Many online services in France do like digicube, it's simply a remain from older days but still in use very often when the business isn't dealing with a significant amount of foreign customers and the locals don't complain enough about it. So one must read carefully the CGV (Conditions Générales de Vente).

    It doesn't help now, but the workaround, which I use among others, for a subscription to one of the main national french paper online edition (same conditions: cancellation by snail mail) is to use virtual credit cards. Entropay.com VISA numbers do work very well. Fill the virtual card with only the needed amount. Pay with the virtual CC. When you want to end the service, just let the card empty and the subscription will be cancelled by lack of payment. And it works both ways: they are not going after you for a cheap server, nor risk to have their silly cancellation conditions revoked by the court in doing so.
    You can also use some temporary email just for that account. Even random fake personal data.
    (Completely legal: virtual CC with fake names is completely legal, because your real data is stored, as per legal requirements, on the CC issuing bank (Entropay) and will be provided by the bank in case of court order in a criminal enquiry. Moreover Entropay is one of these offshore british banks based on some edgy jurisdiction like Malta or Gibraltar, all parts of the british empire, but with yet an address and registration in the CIty, London, with has a special semi-offshore status.
    In fact a virtual CC is a safety for the customer, because it works both ways: one can't be sure that a merchant isn't a scam, so virtual CC and fake personalia provides good protection. )

    By european laws, telecoms and online services dealing with webhosting and servers are required to keep customer's data, under the excuse of preventing illegality and terrorism (ding! NSA is recording....ECHELON was triggered...), so some providers will run some sort of verification, like matching geographic records for connection IP/provided address/bank data. Sometimes it's for fraud protection. Some providers overdo it, like for instance Prometeus. Some don't. It's probable digicube don't. Their snail mail cancellation routine is only a remain from old days french way to do things.

    Anyway you are probably stuck now with two more months rental. Even if email cancellation was accepted you can't overrule their 40 days period.

  • @abravo said:
    Anyway you are probably stuck now with two more months rental. Even if email cancellation was accepted you can't overrule their 40 days period.

    To be honest, i would be fine with the 40 days. It's the mess that i hate, not the cost. It's doesn't cost much anyway.

  • abravo said: Some providers overdo it, like for instance Prometeus.

    Not many providers are based in Italy... Not many providers have been raided 10 times in 2 years due to cheap VPS hosting...
    Trust me, you dont want to be Prometeus in this case.

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

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