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Suggestion to prevent a Constantinos incident from happening again
Shane_Elmore
Member
Why not make this or something simliar a rule:
As a minimum price, no regular priced VPSes or recurring discounts under $2-3 a month will be accepted.
Just suggesting, as HostRail had VPSes at $1.05 a month. Reason I didn't add one-time discounts to the suggestion is that I think some hosts might want to offer a trial offer.
Comments
Thats is not the solution, a provider offering a 64mb vps at 1.05 is not out of the question.
Is it just me or have you made like 10 threads in the last 30 minutes. Chill man.. :P
People with common sence will be able to distinguish between good and bad hosts easily, so I think there is no need
I am not sure I agree with that, some VPN or other traffic only sites with IPv6 might be possible even under 1 $, 64 RAM, 2 GB HDD, 100 GB traffic IPv6 is entirely possible with the right hardware, upstream provider, etc.
Besides, prices are going down, quarterly offers, yearly, etc, CAN go below 1$ and still be viable offers. I mean is not impossible, although unlikely, at least at this time.
M
@DepotVPS_Shane don't live in illusion that "next case" will be even remotely similair to this one... It's always some reason for abusive behaviour and I can imagine hundreds of them. People here are trashed, bashed, flamed, trolled... on daily basis. Specially new hosts which often because some small mistake have no chances to survive here after gang rape of more established LEB/LET hosts.
But in spirit of your suggestion I suggest next rule: to remove, close, delete.. every such suggestion by hosts because trashing other hosts that they have more attractive offer than your is can lead into... another ddos incident.
(I hope you got my point).
Oddly enough you can make a small profit on those plans so there is no way to screen who can and can't make a profit. The best way would be to ask for ID before listing posts about new companies, but that kinda kills privacy.
@DepotVPS_Shane If you convert the $15/year BuyVM to a monthly rate ($1.25) that means one of our favorite providers can't even post here....
And when they appeared first time with this offer at LEB many people was sceptical. But luckily they didn't have so many LEB/LET bashers on their neck as those new hosts have and they earned our trust in relatively peaceful area without need to constantly defend themself as new hosts need to.
Someone should make a graph with the offers "mb per $" and correlate it with the deadpool'd hosts
Might be interesting to see if theres a pattern.
@gsrdgrdghd many hosts come out with those really low low end deals in different circumstances than a bit older, established hosts did. Their chances to survive under constant attacks of established LEB hosts and their sock puppets on their neck is way harder. New hosts can't afford any mistake but who don't do mistakes on beginning?
@DepotVPS_Shane = pubcrawler from WHT.
I agree there is too much abuse going on here, and this is not because I have been at the receiving end at times.
Personal attacks should NEVER be allowed, not even gathering personal data of that Constantinos guy (picture, home address, ID card, things like those), the lynch-mob business is a dangerous one and recent incidents are proving ominous.
The reply to violence should not be violence, mods have the power to take out the hate from the arguments, while leaving the essence in place. If that is happening often enough, ppl will think more before hurting others.
Unfortunatelly, this is not happening here and it is really sad.
Again, this is not a pro-domo plea, I couldnt care less and been enjoying taking the worst out of ppl if that proved my point, but that is not the case for everyone, as KuJoe said once, we cross the line and that is not good for anyone.
M
@DepotVPS_Shane is new and knows of Constantinos? e_e
Everyone who is reading here knows of Constantinos, I even think I knew a guy looking like that in elementary school in a parallel class which later went to high school in the same class with me. He cant be 20 today, obviously :P
M
@Naruto Not everyone has so much useless drivel many colorful opinions to express. Some people prefer to lurk and read before signing up rather than offer up every thought that comes into their head.
There is no need for trust here. I start with the idea of "trust nobody, just get a box and see how it goes".
Who is good survives, as I have seen, most ppl dont care even if their providers main page is down, but they do pull backups if they have important data which I wouldnt recommend on a 15/year vps no matter who is the provider. I have seen often this kind of talk:
OP: www.xyzVPS.com not resolving, I guess they are dead...
someone: hum, my OVZ/KVM/XEN server with them at x location is showing xxx days uptime...
someone else: get a new host !
someone: I have others, now just pulling backups often.
OP: oh, my VPS is also up.
Someone else 2: the site is back for me...
OP: here too...
I even saw ppl forgetting to pay bills and blacking out all their customers for some time, but most of them were understanding for that blunder, it is all down to how you handle **** when it happens. Cause it will, no hardware is unbreakable, no human is free of error, no software is without bugs and security holes, no upstream provider perfect.
You cant expect 100% luck for those money, could you ? :P
"You have now entered the IT Universe... Question is: ARE YOU FEELING LUCKY ?!?"
M
That's a load of crap, we had a complete warzone to deal with.
Ontop of that we've seen how many copy cats for us go under? We have every right to help protect the market that we formed.
Francisco
you formed?
Hey, I was there too and no, it wasn't like nowaday. Warzone? How many established providers really attacked you when you appeared on LEB without finished website like most amateur company?
How many posted counterarguments on any thing you posted in your defence? Eh, come on.. it's not even close to this what's happening nowaday at LEB/LET.
Market you formed. Where? At LEB? Do you own special rights on price/offer package? But this would be silly because when frantech appear here with 5$/m package first time I didn't see any company claimed that you're stealing their idea, market they formed just because they was first on world (or LEB) to offer 5$ vps packages.
Beside that ruining as much as possible of competition before they grow isn't protecting market you formed but making damage to LEB market for your own interest. You didn't form LEB market, you just sucessfuly use it, same as most other hosts posting here around (but I don't blame you or anyone for that of course).
Yes, thats just LOL.
How to avoid a situation?
Don't feed the DDoS guy by encouraging him, calling him out on Twitter and using WHT to keep feeding him which resulted in WHT being attacked
So what if he attacked WHT too ? Do you think that ducking and staying low is a better way ?
I say call every bluff, force him to attack, enrage him to the point he doesnt care and then leave the police do the job. That is, after determining he is a lost cause no matter what.
DDoSes should not scare anyone, they should be mitigated, it is in these times when you see a good host, when bonds create and the customer becomes a friend.
It is not rocket science to fend off a script kiddie with some allowance money, if we are getting scared of that, well, as I said in another thread (and got severely attacked for that), we are in the wrong business.
M
There's no real denying that we've been setting standards for the budget market; there may have been a couple attempts at low-end yearly specials, but that wasn't a 'standard' for companies until we pushed our 128s and folks started to see that it was possible to maintain.
@Aldryic people which set standards for budget market was people like nenolod/rapidxen, prmgr.com and some others. You're first by my knowledge which came out with even cheaper and yet decent package than those people but this doesn't make you as host which formed LEB market, because this simply isn't true. If you wouldn't go lower first someone other would. Beside that LEB blog existed before your first featured LEB offer. I still have 3 or 4 VPSs from those times (and I can name them in case of doubt).
But yes, I must admit that you did it really sucessfully.
You heard it here folks, BuyVM created the LEB market, and they are the market!
I disagree this is the budget market, the bazaar, yeah, the garage sale, the flea market, whatever, but it is not the budget market.
I agree there are high and low standards for this too and you are in the upper end of the market, while many others are selling PANASQNIC and MISTUSHIBA you have the real thing, still, weared down around the edges, a bit "tired" at the knobs, Made in China instead of Japan and without the polish of the main street stuff.
A budget market is kimsufi, edis, burstnet, hetzner, even, everyone who is offering plenty of ram and bw at an affordable price, with own datacenter, not to mention servers, peering, backups, which do not need to forbid everything to keep their nodes stable and enough resources so everyone can function. All those have or had offers at 5 EUR or below, some match yours or are better at times, that is, if we dont consider ToS at all.
Granted, you are kings of this market, you are even business grade for really low budgets, you do your job well and are certainly no scams.
But, did you set the "standards", did you go as far as possible with the QoS and prices, no, there is plenty of space for others too, the balance is shifting and you will see soon enough what I am talking about.
No lynch-mob attitude will change these facts. But I do fear that the next "kings" will go even lower in regard to their attitude.
M
Like any industry, you're going to get a few rotten apples.
In the Budget-VPS industry, they just so happen to be from Cyprus this time.
You just need to remain vigilant, that's all.
Protip: Look at the deadpooled providers, see what they did (wrong), compare to potential provider.
You may never know what really went wrong, even with substantial research, some ppl might be bad admins and bad businessmen, but could be master con artists nobody will be able to track down and/or make sense of their lies.
M
Apologies if I put that across incorrectly :P Let me try with "we're one of the companies that proves 'you get what you pay for' to be false".
I believe we're arguing definition here now, so that's rather irrelevant. 'Budget' is also our method of describing ourselves, as we feel terms such as 'cheap' misrepresent the service we provide.
We would rather be honest and live up to our offerings than reign over any market. You weren't around for our introductory phase, but our motivations haven't changed since then. We're not in this for profit, we do this because we enjoy the work, we enjoy the opportunities to learn, and because we have our own ideas on what hosting should entail.
You're never going to let that go, are you? You are, of course, entitled to your opinion of how things are. I, however, am not obligated to agree or really give a damn. So as a favour to all of us, why don't you just tell yourself that you've "won" whatever issues you wish and move on so that those of us not getting hung up in trivial matters don't have to keep reading the snide remarks?
On the topic of lynch-mob... that's a popular phrase thrown about (along with fanboys and such) when talking about a provider. But if you stop and consider.. we don't give free services to gain positive reviews. We never have discounted sales, and yet still have the demand. We don't play favourites, and yet even people that harbor a great dislike for me or Fran personally will attest to the quality of our services. Those aren't fanboys, those are honest clients that appreciate what we provide.
</pride>
LEB? no, the super budget? ($20/y) damn right.
Hell, I think we're one of the first posts that came on the front end blog so maybe we were the starter of the LEB market too? /trololololol
All joking aside, it was probably burstnet that made the budget VPS market, I really have no idea since we got into it quite a while into it.
Francisco