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If your host retires your server, how does that make you feel?
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If your host retires your server, how does that make you feel?

oplinkoplink Member, Provider

Lets say.. You have a rented dedicated server and its 5yrs old and your host emailed saying you had 30-60 days to migrate to a new server.

How would you feel about your provider?

Are you mad, happy, both, or other?

Comments

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Nothing. I just scream "Jarlard is STUPID!".

    And move on.

    "Jarland is stupid."

  • I'd be pretty bummed out if I lost a recurring discount or a server that you can no longer buy that I've had for a long time. i.e. SoYouStart ARM.

    If I had a discount and they honored that discount or gave a similar one on a different product line that's pretty good of them.

    30-60 days is pretty sufficient time to find a new server or provider for small users, but imagine if someone bought a fleet of dedis and they were all being phased out. Would be pretty annoying.

  • jarjar Provider
    edited March 29

    90 days minimum and I’m annoyed but understanding. Six month notice and we’re cool. It’s unlikely that a disaster recovery plan is appropriate for the situation (the process usually involves a halting of the generation of new data during the process), and a production system can require a lot of time to coordinate a seamless move that was otherwise unplanned.

  • NeoonNeoon Member

    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

  • HarambeHarambe Member

    Not a fan of a forced migration "we turn off your box in 60 days", that's where I'd probably find a new provider. A straight drive swap wouldn't be an issue if it was properly scheduled.

    If it required a full hardware swap + reinstall - I'd want at least 2-3 months to work it out, and it better come with some free hardware bump or something for the extra work you just created for me.

    I don't think I've ever had a dedicated server provider ever tell me I HAD to move, but I have received offers to migrate that I've taken "hey, we have new gear, you're eligible for a free upgrade as we're no longer selling your model". Which is just a softer way to force a move, but you feel like you're getting something and it's still optional.

    Thanked by 1TheLinuxBug

    🐴 $2/mo 512MB KVM - Unmetered bandwidth. $1.25 for 256GB Block Storage - from BuyVM (aff)

  • @Neoon said:
    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

    If they had to upgrade their rack infrastructure drastically like going from PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI.

  • TheLinuxBugTheLinuxBug Member
    edited March 29

    @oplink said:
    Lets say.. You have a rented dedicated server and its 5yrs old and your host emailed saying you had 30-60 days to migrate to a new server.

    How would you feel about your provider?

    Are you mad, happy, both, or other?

    If in that e-mail the host didn't also say, "We have a new system for your to migrate to at the same price with equal or better resources", then I would be super pissed off. Mainly because all of the reasons I can generate in my head that a host would have to decommission it, are not good reasons to force me off my server, since obviously the server isn't broken and is working as expected.

    The only reasons that come to mind are all to benefit the host and not the customer:

    • You don't want to pay for the power because the server is older and uses a lot of power
    • You don't want to pay to retain stock of components for the server
    • You want to provision a cloud chassis and require the extra rack space because my server happens to be 2-4u, while all your newer servers are blades

    I am sure I could think of a few more, but anything other than the server has actually failed, as long as it is suiting my needs, you don't have any good reason to terminate my contract and my server and thus I would be irritate that I have to find a new server with a new host, because if the host did that to me, I surely wouldn't be leaving my services with that host. This would break any trust that was earned and I would no longer want to risk business with that host going forward.

    Now, on the other hand, if the host approached me and offered me a reasonable reason and a comparable solution with enough time to get things moved, that's fine. However, communication is king in these cases. If there is no communication and just a "hey this is going away, kthnx, bye", email that comes in... that won't fly.

    my 2 cents.

    Cheers!

    Have an Allwinner H3 device? Check out H3Droid! | Lichee Pi Zero - The 6$ SBC | #SYSarm - Get It! | Armbian | Atomic Pi Mirror
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  • NeoonNeoon Member

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:
    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

    If they had to upgrade their rack infrastructure drastically like going from PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI.

    The fuck does this matter, people selling dedicated servers on wifi here.

    Thanked by 1rm_
  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Provider

    @oplink said:
    Lets say.. You have a rented dedicated server and its 5yrs old and your host emailed saying you had 30-60 days to migrate to a new server.

    How would you feel about your provider?

    Are you mad, happy, both, or other?

    Forced move. I would be not happy about.
    Talk with your clients. Communication is key when it comes to services running on those servers.

    Thanked by 1TheLinuxBug

    Alien Data: VPS and Colo Based In Texas, Unmetered Bandwidth.
    RPIServers: Dedicated Micro Servers - Micro Colo - Unmeterd Bandwidth

  • SGrafSGraf Member, Provider

    Lets say.. You have a rented dedicated server and its 5yrs old and your host emailed saying you had 30-60 days to migrate to a new server.

    There usually are much better options on how to o this...

    The only reasons that come to mind are all to benefit the host and not the customer:

    Depends. Servers do have mechanical components, so disks and fans may have some natural wear and tear. So not having 1:1 replacement components in stock may also be a thing a few years down the road.

    But yes, certainly there are a lot of benefits to the host.

    I am sure I could think of a few more, but anything other than the server has actually failed, as long as it is suiting my needs, you don't have any good reason to terminate my contract and my server and thus I would be irritate that I have to find a new server with a new host, because if the host did that to me, I surely wouldn't be leaving my services with that host. This would break any trust that was earned and I would no longer want to risk business with that host going forward.

    There are lots of things that a host can do, to facilitate migration.
    An Example of what a host can do is offer free migration to better hardware.
    As an example: "Would you like to migrate to a more powerful server at the same price?". Giving the option of keeping your current disks(if physically possible) or otherwhise with a 1 month overlap....

    Thanked by 1TheLinuxBug

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  • LeeLee Member

    @oplink said: Are you mad, happy, both, or other?

    Tell us the full story. Have they given a reason, did they offer alternatives, did they offer a deal at the same price?

  • tbh unless they offer upgrade at no cost id be pissed. Gotta support your customer for the life of the customer not the lifetime of the hardware

  • KaffekoppKaffekopp Member, No Sales

    I think the best way to recycle servers is to let the customer have it for as long as they want, and when it gets cancelled, they take it out of the rack. At some point it is a good thing for everyone to upgrade, as $ -> performance gets better.

  • Dedicated server contracts are monthly.
    The provider has the right to announce cancellation of the contract with 30-day notice, or whatever specified on the contract.

    If the customer of the dedicated server happens to be a VPS provider, the VPS customers are the ones that got screwed.

    Dear Customer,

    Over the past few months we have been met with many challenges within the hosting business. Some that have not been overcome.

    As result of this we will be closing our doors. We will be shutting down this INSERT DATE AFTER 30 DAYS. We are taking this time to let our customers know so that they may backup and retrieve all of their data before then.

    We deeply apologize for this inconvenience.

    Thank You.

    Management

    Thanked by 1dodheimsgard

    I have five ≥1GB, ≤$16/year KVM servers. Are you jealous?

  • @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:
    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

    If they had to upgrade their rack infrastructure drastically like going from PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI.

    The fuck does this matter, people selling dedicated servers on wifi here.

    What's the price of tea in china? The fuck does wifi have to do with end of lifing old, inefficient servers? Larger companies don't fuck with 1-2 consumer boards out of their basement, they buy in quantity with like hardware and setups and look to increase revenue.

  • NeoonNeoon Member

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:
    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

    If they had to upgrade their rack infrastructure drastically like going from PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI.

    The fuck does this matter, people selling dedicated servers on wifi here.

    What's the price of tea in china? The fuck does wifi have to do with end of lifing old, inefficient servers? Larger companies don't fuck with 1-2 consumer boards out of their basement, they buy in quantity with like hardware and setups and look to increase revenue.

    Reference to "PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI."
    The fuck cares? Your DC is big, the money comes in, why the fuck should you care?

    If your DC is full, you build a new one like Hetzner, OVH.
    You won't end up kick people because DC is full sorray guys, we got new servers.

  • It happens. Take it positively. Try to choose a server provider which guarantees maximum uptime. Also check data center location.

  • My oldest server still in production is from 2009 ... Still running, I would be really pissed of if I have to waist time migrating it...

  • @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:
    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

    If they had to upgrade their rack infrastructure drastically like going from PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI.

    The fuck does this matter, people selling dedicated servers on wifi here.

    What's the price of tea in china? The fuck does wifi have to do with end of lifing old, inefficient servers? Larger companies don't fuck with 1-2 consumer boards out of their basement, they buy in quantity with like hardware and setups and look to increase revenue.

    Reference to "PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI."
    The fuck cares? Your DC is big, the money comes in, why the fuck should you care?

    If your DC is full, you build a new one like Hetzner, OVH.
    You won't end up kick people because DC is full sorray guys, we got new servers.

    Are you on crack? Instead of just removing old and non competitive hardware with support and part availability drains on your people (you missed the 5 year old part? Those rent/lease to own places are like 2-4 years, no?), you'd have them continue to use up resources and instead just whip out another DC like Amazon will deliver it in two days? Holy fucking Christ, that is silly beyond comprehension. Also, not everyone owns a DC (bing bong, we're on LET), many just rent space. It takes years and capital to make a DC, that's a bit rich for someone renting space in a DC. And when you rent space and its not economically feasible, you replace it.

    Lastly, if your plan is to operate something well past support window until it fails and becomes a fire before migrating to a new supported platform on a planned schedule, you're doing it wrong. People who think like this (running it until the wheels fall off) while running a business are amateurs and incompetent.

  • @angelius said:
    My oldest server still in production is from 2009 ... Still running, I would be really pissed of if I have to waist time migrating it...

    Why would it be a waste? Are you operating as if that server would run forever if that pesky provider didn't intentionally retire it? That's crazy.

  • NeoonNeoon Member

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:
    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

    If they had to upgrade their rack infrastructure drastically like going from PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI.

    The fuck does this matter, people selling dedicated servers on wifi here.

    What's the price of tea in china? The fuck does wifi have to do with end of lifing old, inefficient servers? Larger companies don't fuck with 1-2 consumer boards out of their basement, they buy in quantity with like hardware and setups and look to increase revenue.

    Reference to "PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI."
    The fuck cares? Your DC is big, the money comes in, why the fuck should you care?

    If your DC is full, you build a new one like Hetzner, OVH.
    You won't end up kick people because DC is full sorray guys, we got new servers.

    Are you on crack?

    Always

    Instead of just removing old and non competitive hardware with support and part availability drains on your people (you missed the 5 year old part? Those rent/lease to own places are like 2-4 years, no?), you'd have them continue to use up resources and instead just whip out another DC like Amazon will deliver it in two days? Holy fucking Christ, that is silly beyond comprehension. Also, not everyone owns a DC (bing bong, we're on LET), many just rent space. It takes years and capital to make a DC, that's a bit rich for someone renting space in a DC. And when you rent space and its not economically feasible, you replace it.

    Lastly, if your plan is to operate something well past support window until it fails and becomes a fire before migrating to a new supported platform on a planned schedule, you're doing it wrong. People who think like this (running it until the wheels fall off) while running a business are amateurs and incompetent.

    You don't ship out a DC in 2 days, you plan it years ahead, seems to work well for Hetzner and OVH, they so far never kicked someone from old hardware.

    Neither have they ran out of capacity for new hardware.
    Even Online.net does it the same way but let you know, that they are low on parts and if it breaks you may not get a replacement but a upgrade is possible.

  • LeeLee Member
    edited March 31

    @yoursunny said: Dedicated >server contracts are monthly.
    The provider has the right to announce cancellation of the contract with 30-day notice, >or whatever specified on the contract.

    I mean pretty much this. The provider has the right to cancel just the same as the customer when you rent. Many valid reasons for wanting to be rid of older hardware.

    If you want certainty it will be there in 10 years then colocation is the best option or do a rent to buy type option.

    Bigger DCs are probably more comfortable to leave old hardware in racks but there are plenty of providers for whom space is premium so makes sense to rotate.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • @TimboJones said:

    @angelius said:
    My oldest server still in production is from 2009 ... Still running, I would be really pissed of if I have to waist time migrating it...

    Why would it be a waste? Are you operating as if that server would run forever if that pesky provider didn't intentionally retire it? That's crazy.

    It's a 12 years old side project, it's running perfectly without any modifications since 12 years behind a firewall ... It will die with the hardware... Maybe in 10 more years ... Who knows

    Thanked by 1drunkendog
  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Provider

    Dude. I've seen Dell Poweredge 1950s and 2950s in my DC because people don't want to change hardware. If a person is paying for it. And it's covering the costs for power. Why should it matter?

    Alien Data: VPS and Colo Based In Texas, Unmetered Bandwidth.
    RPIServers: Dedicated Micro Servers - Micro Colo - Unmeterd Bandwidth

  • HarambeHarambe Member

    Also 5 years old is like.. E5v4 / E3v5 timeframe. lol

    looks at his pile of Ivy Bridge and Haswell gear in colo...

    🐴 $2/mo 512MB KVM - Unmetered bandwidth. $1.25 for 256GB Block Storage - from BuyVM (aff)

  • coolicecoolice Member
    edited April 1

    5 years old do not means it was brand new latest model when the server is initally purchased until we need more info about the server

    Example: in 2020 Senetic branches still offers for brand new HP G9 servers with v4 CPUs (DL E5-26XX) with full guarantee... if grantee ends in 2023 that will be close to 8 years old CPU

    Here is another possibility:

    A local server supplier (they build custom configuration based on Supermicro chassis ) works with couple of local data centers with which they have contract and for small additional fee can cover can replace any hardware with in guarantee in that data centers (no remote hands needed ... no need to keep reserve parts it is covered during guarantee period ....

    But wen guarantee ends that servers is not covered anymore and if something happened there will be prolonged downtime

    Future-Proof Yourself! Buy! Buy!

  • oplinkoplink Member, Provider

    Just wanted to provide a big thanks for the input and comments.

    I know some of you were asking for a little more details..

    We have some older clients still using some L5420 servers and we were deciding what to do w/ them. In fact we did a 'soft' retire of these once before and we had clients who just wanted to keep them so we left them. We were revisiting the idea again and wanted to get some LET feedback of what other providers have done to your old gear.

    We decided just to leave the clients alone for now. All these clients were giving the option to upgrade to something a about a year ago now and they choose not to. So they know they are on EOL dinosaur hardware already.

    At the end of the day these servers use about 1.25A, most other servers we offer are less or just have way more CPU power to amp ratio. So overhead, power, space plays a little role when to retire these dinosaur servers.

    Thanks again.

    Ryan

  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Provider

    @oplink said:
    Just wanted to provide a big thanks for the input and comments.

    I know some of you were asking for a little more details..

    We have some older clients still using some L5420 servers and we were deciding what to do w/ them. In fact we did a 'soft' retire of these once before and we had clients who just wanted to keep them so we left them. We were revisiting the idea again and wanted to get some LET feedback of what other providers have done to your old gear.

    We decided just to leave the clients alone for now. All these clients were giving the option to upgrade to something a about a year ago now and they choose not to. So they know they are on EOL dinosaur hardware already.

    At the end of the day these servers use about 1.25A, most other servers we offer are less or just have way more CPU power to amp ratio. So overhead, power, space plays a little role when to retire these dinosaur servers.

    Thanks again.

    Ryan

    If the client is paying for the power usage. Why should it matter?
    ~Josh

    Alien Data: VPS and Colo Based In Texas, Unmetered Bandwidth.
    RPIServers: Dedicated Micro Servers - Micro Colo - Unmeterd Bandwidth

  • oplinkoplink Member, Provider

    @DataIdeas-Josh said:

    If the client is paying for the power usage. Why should it matter?
    ~Josh

    Well if a new server server uses less power I could get more gear in the same rack and make more profit per rack.

  • @DataIdeas-Josh said:

    @oplink said:
    Just wanted to provide a big thanks for the input and comments.

    I know some of you were asking for a little more details..

    We have some older clients still using some L5420 servers and we were deciding what to do w/ them. In fact we did a 'soft' retire of these once before and we had clients who just wanted to keep them so we left them. We were revisiting the idea again and wanted to get some LET feedback of what other providers have done to your old gear.

    We decided just to leave the clients alone for now. All these clients were giving the option to upgrade to something a about a year ago now and they choose not to. So they know they are on EOL dinosaur hardware already.

    At the end of the day these servers use about 1.25A, most other servers we offer are less or just have way more CPU power to amp ratio. So overhead, power, space plays a little role when to retire these dinosaur servers.

    Thanks again.

    Ryan

    If the client is paying for the power usage. Why should it matter?
    ~Josh

    He didn't say that. He explicitly said other servers use less power. Presumably, the cost of power is included in a single price the client pays the provider every month. In other words, its the provider's profit that additional power comes from.

    Thanked by 1Lee
  • @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @Neoon said:
    Since when is the age a reason to kick costumers out of it? what a bull shit.
    They usually wait until the hardware breaks and they run out of replacements.

    And if you do it right, with enough stock, you don't need to do that until the costumer goes and upgrades it.

    It does sound rather stupid, to kick someone of a working server that has already paid for itself multiple times.

    If they had to upgrade their rack infrastructure drastically like going from PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI.

    The fuck does this matter, people selling dedicated servers on wifi here.

    What's the price of tea in china? The fuck does wifi have to do with end of lifing old, inefficient servers? Larger companies don't fuck with 1-2 consumer boards out of their basement, they buy in quantity with like hardware and setups and look to increase revenue.

    Reference to "PS/2 to USB or VGA to HDMI."
    The fuck cares? Your DC is big, the money comes in, why the fuck should you care?

    If your DC is full, you build a new one like Hetzner, OVH.
    You won't end up kick people because DC is full sorray guys, we got new servers.

    Are you on crack?

    Always

    Instead of just removing old and non competitive hardware with support and part availability drains on your people (you missed the 5 year old part? Those rent/lease to own places are like 2-4 years, no?), you'd have them continue to use up resources and instead just whip out another DC like Amazon will deliver it in two days? Holy fucking Christ, that is silly beyond comprehension. Also, not everyone owns a DC (bing bong, we're on LET), many just rent space. It takes years and capital to make a DC, that's a bit rich for someone renting space in a DC. And when you rent space and its not economically feasible, you replace it.

    Lastly, if your plan is to operate something well past support window until it fails and becomes a fire before migrating to a new supported platform on a planned schedule, you're doing it wrong. People who think like this (running it until the wheels fall off) while running a business are amateurs and incompetent.

    You don't ship out a DC in 2 days, you plan it years ahead, seems to work well for Hetzner and OVH, they so far never kicked someone from old hardware.

    Neither have they ran out of capacity for new hardware.
    Even Online.net does it the same way but let you know, that they are low on parts and if it breaks you may not get a replacement but a upgrade is possible.

    You're going to find the number of dedicated server providers who don't own the DC will far, far out number the ones that own their DC. And then standing up another building adds a cost drain until it surpasses a certain amount of utilization. That's orders of magnitude in scale larger than a typical LET dedicated server provider. @Clouvider doesn't own any DC's, AFAIK. I'd be curious what his plan is for retiring old hardware.

    Thanked by 2Lee yoursunny
  • rcxbrcxb Member

    @oplink said:
    How would you feel

    Hungry.

    Thanked by 1skorupion
  • Daniel15Daniel15 Member

    @DataIdeas-Josh said: I've seen Dell Poweredge 1950s and 2950s in my DC because people don't want to change hardware.

    Sometimes I'm surprised how old some production hardware is. A company I used to work for finally retired some old Windows 2000 servers with dual Pentium 3 or 4 processors in 2011, shortly after Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 2000. Those servers were in the DC for 10 years or more, just doing their job.

    Thanked by 1DataIdeas-Josh
  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Provider

    @Daniel15 said:

    @DataIdeas-Josh said: I've seen Dell Poweredge 1950s and 2950s in my DC because people don't want to change hardware.

    Sometimes I'm surprised how old some production hardware is. A company I used to work for finally retired some old Windows 2000 servers with dual Pentium 3 or 4 processors in 2011, shortly after Microsoft ended extended support for Windows 2000. Those servers were in the DC for 10 years or more, just doing their job.

    I personally would have no issue colo old hardware if a client is wanting to pay for the power.
    Let alone if the dedicated machine is out of date. So be it. If the client is using it and is happy. Let them chug along and keep business as usual. Finding parts on ebay is easy for these old systems.

    Alien Data: VPS and Colo Based In Texas, Unmetered Bandwidth.
    RPIServers: Dedicated Micro Servers - Micro Colo - Unmeterd Bandwidth

  • AlwaysSkintAlwaysSkint Member
    edited April 2

    @oplink said: We have some older clients still using some L5420 servers

    My super cheap dual quad Xeon 5420 has been chugging along quite nicely for the past 3.5 years. It's monthly charge is so "Unreal" that it will be nigh on impossible to replace on a like-for-like performance basis.

    Long live LowEndInfo.com

  • stefemanstefeman Member
    edited April 2

    I would storm into the premises and rescue my long standing bride from the hands of those bastards.. If money fails, violence is still an option.

  • HassanHassan Member, Provider

    When we discontinued OpenVZ we gave users a 3 month notice and automatically provisioned account credit for clients to manually choose a new KVM plan to replace their service with and migrate their data. This worked well, ideally I would have automatically provisioned replacement VM's but with the disparity in disk between VZ and KVM plans it would have been a mess to figure out which plan would work best for each user.

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