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Parler goes offline after AWS shuts off traffic to its clients
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Parler goes offline after AWS shuts off traffic to its clients

Looks like AWS has taken Parler servers offline, and the service is currently down.

Saw this on a discussion. But is it really that big a deal? I'm sure those guys can easily rent a rack on a DC somewhere and put up their own servers?

Surely not all colo providers would be averse to dealing with them?

Don't hold your breath. There's only a handful of firms that can handle traffic at that scale and I highly doubt Microsoft or the others would take their business. And it doesn't matter who's funding them, they can't afford to spin up their own onprem servers even if they managed to not get dropped by payment processors (which will be coming shortly).

AWS pulls the plug
  1. Do you agree with what AWS did?85 votes
    1. Yes
      34.12%
    2. No
      56.47%
    3. Kinda, but should have given more time to Parler
        9.41%

Comments

  • Eventually they will find warm spot somewhere in Russia. Such advertisement from media is rather a favor for them.

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  • jsgjsg Member

    @LTniger said:
    Eventually they will find warm spot somewhere in Russia. Such advertisement from media is rather a favor for them.

    Why Russia? Mexico is right next door and the mexican president has condemned the anti-Trump witch-hunt.
    Also I'm not so sure that Russia would like to get involved. The "Russia = enemy ergo Russia supporting anything against the USA" may describe the view of many Americans but certainly not that of most Russians.

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • Kinda funny. The shit you see on Telegram messenger, wickr, signal...and this gets shut down. Meh.

    hm. I've lost a machine.. literally lost. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.

  • They will be coming for Conservatives next, not just Trump supporters. People on Twitter seem to think conservative-minded people are evil.

  • @jsg said: Why Russia?

    Because Russia has history to host websites not welcomed in USA. Probably oligarchs has better data centers than MX cartels.

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  • jsgjsg Member
    edited January 11

    @LTniger said:

    @jsg said: Why Russia?

    Because Russia has history to host websites not welcomed in USA. Probably oligarchs has better data centers than MX cartels.

    Hahahaha! Now that the "oligarch" card has been played only one assertion is missing (russian DCs are all rusty and run by continually drunk staff"). Sorry but at least currently it seems that Russia is a by far more open minded and democratic state with high levels of freedom than the USA.

    Hint: what do you call Bezos, Dorsey, and the likes? They are not oligarchs?

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • @jsg said: what do you call Bezos, Dorsey, and the likes? They are not oligarchs?

    Those are moguls. They don't brute force, they simply buy what they want and is on entirely another level than oligarchs.

    Russian DC's are not rusty and run by drunk staff :D . Rather otherwise, Russians are well known for their damn good engineering skills. Personally I had work with Russian programmers, very intelligent people. Myths about vodka :) well, they are myths.

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  • @jsg said: Sorry but at least currently it seems that Russia is a by far more open minded and democratic state with high levels of freedom than the USA.

    Just passed by to make my laugh audible.

    Thanked by 2pike vimalware
  • @LTniger said:

    @jsg said: what do you call Bezos, Dorsey, and the likes? They are not oligarchs?

    Those are moguls. They don't brute force, they simply buy what they want and is on entirely another level than oligarchs.

    Russian DC's are not rusty and run by drunk staff :D . Rather otherwise, Russians are well known for their damn good engineering skills. Personally I had work with Russian programmers, very intelligent people. Myths about vodka :) well, they are myths.

    Not even close.

    hm. I've lost a machine.. literally lost. it responds to ping, it works completely, I just can't figure out where in my apartment it is.

  • angeliusangelius Member
    edited January 11

    My first reaction after seeing this is we are following CCP ideas of mutting opposit voices, this is really bad!

    Thanked by 1DataWagon
  • jsgjsg Member

    I'm glad to see that there are quite a few here who have a realistic image of Russia.

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • Parler should sue amazon.

  • Shot2Shot2 Member

    @angelius said:
    My first reaction after seeing this is we are following CCP ideas of mutting opposit voices, this is really bad!

    What is CCP, if I may ask?

    Providing less than /64 means "we are clueless about IPv6". My geekbench results. I haz BuyVM, HostHatch, OneProv, ServaRica, Veesp.

  • @Shot2 said:

    @angelius said:
    My first reaction after seeing this is we are following CCP ideas of mutting opposit voices, this is really bad!

    What is CCP, if I may ask?

    Chinese Communist Party.

    #!/Bashblog.net | Free Wordpress Hosting | If you can't idle, what's the point?

  • Shot2Shot2 Member

    @LTniger said:

    @Shot2 said:

    @angelius said:
    My first reaction after seeing this is we are following CCP ideas of mutting opposit voices, this is really bad!

    What is CCP, if I may ask?

    Chinese Communist Party.

    Oh, right, thought it was some USofA political thing.

    Providing less than /64 means "we are clueless about IPv6". My geekbench results. I haz BuyVM, HostHatch, OneProv, ServaRica, Veesp.

  • lonealonea Member, Provider

    @dodheimsgard said:
    Parler should sue amazon.

    They can sue but they won't win.

    Thanks to the bakery that denied a gay couple wedding.

    BuyWebHosting - Web Hosting for $10 per year

  • jsgjsg Member

    @lonea said:

    @dodheimsgard said:
    Parler should sue amazon.

    They can sue but they won't win.

    Thanks to the bakery that denied a gay couple wedding.

    • Relation?
    • That bakery did not deny them their wedding (and how could they?), they merely denied to make a special wedding cake for them
    • Funny how you do see the right of gays to marry, but not the right of the baker to stay true to his belief. Is being gay and desiring to marry somehow more valuable a right than the right to ones religious belief? Certainly not in my universe.

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • lonealonea Member, Provider
    edited January 11

    They denied doing business with them because they're gay. If you didn't bother reading it up on the case.

    Meaning, any business can deny doing business with anyone based on their own beliefs.

    And in this case, Amazon believes Parler is responsible for the capital riot.

    @jsg said:

    @lonea said:

    @dodheimsgard said:
    Parler should sue amazon.

    They can sue but they won't win.

    Thanks to the bakery that denied a gay couple wedding.

    • Relation?
    • That bakery did not deny them their wedding (and how could they?), they merely denied to make a special wedding cake for them
    • Funny how you do see the right of gays to marry, but not the right of the baker to stay true to his belief. Is being gay and desiring to marry somehow more valuable a right than the right to ones religious belief? Certainly not in my universe.
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  • jsgjsg Member

    @lonea said:
    They denied doing business with them because they're gay. If you didn't bother reading it up on the case.

    Meaning, any business can deny doing business with anyone based on their own beliefs.

    No. They clearly said that they would sell the gays whatever they wanted (standard products). They only refused to create a custom designed cake. Big difference.

    And those gay people also had a lot of other options - Parler however not. They were willfully cut off and it was known, understood, and planned to deny them other options in a concerted effort.

    And in this case, Amazon believes Parler is responsible for the capital riot.

    Assume Donald Trump believed that twitter was responsible for what you call "capitol riot". Would you accept then that it's OK, if Trump put twitter completely out of business? Of course not.

    Guilt ("they were responsible for ...") must be determined by a proper court and not by Amazon or twitter.

    Thanked by 2needsy elos42

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • t0ny0t0ny0 Member
    edited January 11

    @jsg said:

    No. They clearly said that they would sell the gays whatever they wanted (standard products). They only refused to create a custom designed cake. Big difference.

    Hence - they refused to provide them with a certain service. Im sure parler people can still order shit off of Amazon, but can't use their specific hosting platform.

    And those gay people also had a lot of other options - Parler however not. They were willfully cut off and it was known, understood, and planned to deny them other options in a concerted effort.

    It is not. Its none of amazons business as to what Parler people have as an option. They are just making it clear that AWS is NOT an option for them.

    Assume Donald Trump believed that twitter was responsible for what you call "capitol riot". Would you accept then that it's OK, if Trump put twitter completely out of business? Of course not.

    He is an elected official. He is NOT a business. They go by different rules.

    Guilt ("they were responsible for ...") must be determined by a proper court and not by Amazon or twitter.

    AWS and amazon and Twitter and Facebook are businesses. And they have the full right to refuse service as they see fit. The same way that they would take down someone hosting CP - they will also take down shit that results in violence. Or will take it down because the CEO woke up in a bad mood, and decided he doesn't want to provide services to a certain company. It doesn't matter why they don't want them on board. The fact is - they have the legal right to refuse a customer.

    Thanked by 2skorous maverickp
  • lonealonea Member, Provider
    edited January 11

    Parler have other options. Ie: they can build a datacenter themselves, or in the other case "those gay people" can build their own cake.

    @jsg said:>And those gay people also had a lot of other options - Parler however not. They were willfully cut off and it was known, understood, and planned to deny them other options in a concerted effort.

    Thanked by 1t0ny0

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  • It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way ó in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
    -- A Tale of Two Cities

  • In ancient times, people who did not believe in God were guilty. What’s more interesting is that there are not many people who understand words, so the father says you are guilty, then you will die.

    Welcone to the ancient time.

    Don't give me hope.

  • @FrankZ said:
    It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness, it was the epoch of belief, it was the epoch of incredulity, it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair, we had everything before us, we had nothing before us, we were all going direct to Heaven, we were all going direct the other way ó in short, the period was so far like the present period, that some of its noisiest authorities insisted on its being received, for good or for evil, in the superlative degree of comparison only.
    -- A Tale of Two Cities

    Epic but it is saying nothing...

    Don't give me hope.

  • jsgjsg Member

    @t0ny0 @lonea

    Well, obviously we have different views and I refuse to play the games of people who use tricks like "Trump is not a business" (well, simply replace "Trump" with some business) obviously just for the sake of somehow "being right" - my point however wasn't "politician vs. business" but it was "believing? Seriously? Remember the times when one had to prove an allegation and/or get a court verdict?". Today believing (or feeling) is enough.

    Be proud of that achievement ... while it lasts.
    But please do not unnerve me when - yes, 'when', not 'if' - the tide turns and all the woke believers and feelers get to taste their own medicine based on oh so evil right wingers hitting you just as brutally based on what they "believe" and "feel".

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    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • t0ny0t0ny0 Member
    edited January 11

    @jsg said:
    @t0ny0 @lonea

    Well, obviously we have different views and I refuse to play the games of people who use tricks like "Trump is not a business" (well, simply replace "Trump" with some business) obviously just for the sake of somehow "being right" - my point however wasn't "politician vs. business" but it was "believing? Seriously? Remember the times when one had to prove an allegation and/or get a court verdict?". Today believing (or feeling) is enough.

    Be proud of that achievement ... while it lasts.
    But please do not unnerve me when - yes, 'when', not 'if' - the tide turns and all the woke believers and feelers get to taste their own medicine based on oh so evil right wingers hitting you just as brutally based on what they "believe" and "feel".

    I have been kicked out of a gas station, due to them "not serving my kind".
    I didn't take them to court. I just took my business elsewhere :-)

    I am not gonna go around to bitch and moan that some inbred basement-dwelling redneck republican (figured that out by the Trump flag hanging in there, and the couple of teeth left in the dwellers mouth) refused to sell me a bottle of water because I am mexican (which I also am not btw).

    So don't go around telling me that this has just started. There has been refusal of service for a long time, from both ends.

    And if you see it as a "freedom of speech" issue - thats on you. Because it is not (at least thats my opinion).

    And I'm not going to pretend that I am not enjoying seeing these twats taken down. Because I am very much enjoying it :-)

    I am not going to continue this conversation, because we all have our points of view. And I will not try and force mine on someone else, because that will be a waste of time for both parties involved. And vice versa.

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  • FrankZFrankZ Member
    edited January 11

    @elliotc said: Epic but it is saying nothing...

    I was suggesting to read the book for a better understanding of the times we live in. As the cycles of time have a tendency to rhyme.

    @jsg said: But please do not unnerve me when - yes, 'when', not 'if' - the tide turns and all the woke believers and feelers get to taste their own medicine based on oh so evil right wingers hitting you just as brutally based on what they "believe" and "feel".

    More likely the US will get their own Robespierre and Law of 22 Prairial. In other words they will do it to themselves.

  • lonealonea Member, Provider
    edited January 11

    No, you are trying to rebuttal the case between bakery vs gay couple

    There was nothing the bakery could go on about not serving the gay couple. Hence... believing

    At the end of the day, a religion is a belief. Not facts.

    @jsg said: Well, obviously we have different views and I refuse to play the games of people who use tricks like "Trump is not a business" (well, simply replace "Trump" with some business) obviously just for the sake of somehow "being right" - my point however wasn't "politician vs. business" but it was "believing? Seriously? Remember the times when one had to prove an allegation and/or get a court verdict?". Today believing (or feeling) is enough.

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  • SmartHostSmartHost Member, Provider
    edited January 11

    Don't forget that they receive protections from the government (section 230) as if they were a common carrier telecom business, that is not responsible for user activity/content.

    They cannot have their cake and eat it too (pun intended)...either they are a private business free to service who they want OR they are a common carrier protected by section 230. If they want to start policing content and removing things they do not politically agree with, then they need to have their section 230 coverage removed. Fair is fair.
    .

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  • @Francisco should just host Parler
    if he doesnt, the second option would be HostSolutions.ro :D

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  • @vovler said:
    @Francisco should just host Parler
    if he doesnt, the second option would be HostSolutions.ro :D

    How does the other users feel when they know their websites are running over the dirty fibers that are transferring violent content?

    More importantly, if Luxembourg / Romanian police demands to power off the router, other users would be severely affected.

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  • @SmartHost said: either they are a private business free to service who they want OR they are a common carrier protected by section 230.

    Yes, because it really is a simple either/or like that.

  • jsgjsg Member
    edited January 11

    @t0ny0 said:
    And I'm not going to pretend that I am not enjoying seeing these twats taken down. Because I am very much enjoying it :-)

    No problem, and maybe it will help you to understand the Trump voting rednecks when it's their turn to very much enjoying it ...

    @lonea said:
    At the end of the day, a religion is a belief. Not facts.

    But a belief protected by the constitution.

    To avoid misunderstandings: I'm not at all against gays (or people of color, or ...) but I'm against "X believes that Y did [something bad]" or "X feeling oppressed, discriminated against, ..." replacing a fair trial and a judge determining what really happened and who really is guilty.
    And I'm against one group plundering buildings and setting them on fire being called "largely peaceful protests" but another group, 99.9% if which did indeed protest peacefully, being called rioters.

    Thanked by 1elos42

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • lonealonea Member, Provider

    So what are you trying to rebuttal against?

    The fact that it is ok for a belief to discriminate just because it is protected by the constitution, or a business in America can choose to do business with whomever they want based on their company values ?

    ... oh wait it's the same thing.

    @jsg said: But a belief protected by the constitution.

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  • @FrankZ said:

    @elliotc said: Epic but it is saying nothing...

    I was suggesting to read the book for a better understanding of the times we live in. As the cycles of time have a tendency to rhyme.

    "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times" can fit into any second of the history. Literature is literature, they are romantic, but also unrealistic.

    If you really want to know more about the times we live in, I will highly suggest you read "amusing ourselves to death".

    Don't give me hope.

  • NyrNyr Member

    @vovler said: if he doesnt, the second option would be HostSolutions.ro

    Romania is country with lots of corruption and crime, not a free speech heaven.

    Parler needs to find a host for their frontend within the US or Russia, not many suitable options but there are some which can work. Since they also need significant DDoS protection, their options are limited.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @t0ny0 said: And if you see it as a "freedom of speech" issue - thats on you. Because it is not (at least thats my opinion).

    @lonea said: The fact that it is ok for a belief to discriminate just because it is protected by the constitution, or a business in America can choose to do business with whomever they want based on their company values ? ... oh wait it's the same thing.

    I understand these arguments but they're a bit off-base.

    In the case of the bakery, refusing to serve a gay couple is completely within their rights. A bakery is not an essential business (as, for example, a hotel has been ruled to be) and couple still have literally thousands of other options. Moreover, as pointed out, they did not refuse to serve them, only to customize in a particular manner (depends which case - there were several of these). And also worth pointing out, this case was 100% BS from the start - at least one of these bakeries was targeted specifically to make a stink.

    Finally, there's a huge difference between religious freedom - which is protected - and discriminatory practices, which are not. In the 50s/60s, lunch counters were not saying "blacks can't drink at these water fountains" out of religious beliefs. Indeed, they were saying "they can't drink there because the law says it's illegal". There's a difference between overturning a law (through legislative or judicial means) and private rights.

    It's hugely different when we're talking about social media. Sure, you can still get to Parler by going to the parler.com (or whatever it is) web site. And yes, Apple, Google, Facebook, and Twitter are private businesses.

    But come on - in 2021, the "town square" is not the web, it's mobile devices and social media. Imagine a country in which every square inch was owned by Evil Co. except for a patch of swampland. 99.9% of people worked and lived in the gleaming cities and teaming luxury marketplaces, but their speech there was thoroughly censored. "Of course, if you want to protest, feel free to do so on public land," which is only the swamp land. Technically, free speech is preserved, but practically, there is no free speech.

    It's more accurate to say that the town square has been privatized and a small group of companies have decided to squelch any conversation they don't approve of. Let's be real - if you're banned from FB/Twitter and your app is rejected by the two major app stores, you're dead as far as reaching the public. These places are the de facto public square and big tech's ability to censor them is appalling.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • @Nyr said:

    @vovler said: if he doesnt, the second option would be HostSolutions.ro

    Romania is country with lots of corruption and crime, not a free speech heaven.

    Parler needs to find a host for their frontend within the US or Russia, not many suitable options but there are some which can work. Since they also need significant DDoS protection, their options are limited.

    So BuyVM at NY w/a DDOS Protected IP and TBs and TBs of slabs

    "They said it's RAID 5" - geekypixal

  • lonealonea Member, Provider
    edited January 11

    Well, that's the key point here.

    @raindog308 said: Technically, free speech is preserved, but practically, there is no free speech.

    People are saying this is censor of free speech but indeed it isn't. When parler signed up to be in the Apple app store, Google play store, AWS, they agreed to certain guidelines and policies which they have to follow. They have the freedom to not follow it. That's entirely up to them.

    At the end of the day companies make decisions based on what make (dollar) sense to them the most and they have the freedom to make business decisions.

    "Freedom" is a double edged sword.

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  • jsgjsg Member

    @lonea said:
    So what are you trying to rebuttal against?

    The fact that it is ok for a belief to discriminate just because it is protected by the constitution, or a business in America can choose to do business with whomever they want based on their company values ?

    ... oh wait it's the same thing.

    @jsg said: But a belief protected by the constitution.

    Yes, indeed.

    Plus: not providing one special service != cutting all services off.

    Is it great, do I like it that someone doesn't get his cake made? No - but it's part of life and a grown up gay couple would simply have got their cake made elsewhere. But for that couple it wasn't really about the cake; it was about making lots of "discrimination!!!!!" noise. Did they care at all about that bakers life work being endangered or even destroyed? Nope. They wanted to win their "fight for gay rights" no matter the cost - as long as others had to pay them.

    One reason I very much like Putin is that when asked why the russian government "discriminates" against gays, he said something along the lines of "We do not discriminate. In fact, we do not care at all what you do in your bedroom. But we won't allow certain minority groups to impose their world view upon others". Well said.

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • edited January 11

    @jsg said:
    anti-Trump witch-hunt.

    He instigated an attempted coup, which failed like everything else he does, and you are still trying to call it a witch-hunt?

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @yoursunny said:

    @vovler said:
    @Francisco should just host Parler
    if he doesnt, the second option would be HostSolutions.ro :D

    How does the other users feel when they know their websites are running over the dirty fibers that are transferring violent content?

    More importantly, if Luxembourg / Romanian police demands to power off the router, other users would be severely affected.

    You have a weird sense of purity for the internet given there's CP hosted on every single host on the internet. As well as spammers, malware, etc.

    At the end of the day Parler has a pretty strong moderation team, far more than twitter. You can go on twitter and see 10's of thousands of people calling for the Mike Pence to be hung, or people literally calling for the irradication of Isreal and such.

    If they wanted to be hosted on me I'd have no problem with that. Biggest issue would be a capacity wise since I'm assuming they'd need quite a bit of equipment.

    I reached out to them to at least see what their setup is like. I'm assuming that the vast majority of their rumoured AWS spend is for bandwidth.

    Francisco

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  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @lonea said:
    Well, that's the key point here.

    @raindog308 said: Technically, free speech is preserved, but practically, there is no free speech.

    People are saying this is censor of free speech but indeed it isn't.

    It’s like you read nothing I wrote.

    De facto vs de jure.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • jsgjsg Member

    @LosPollosHermanos said:

    @jsg said:
    anti-Trump witch-hunt.

    He instigated an attempted coup, which failed like everything else he does, and you are still trying to call it a witch-hunt?

    What a pile of BS! A coup looks very different and you should be happy to obviously never having lived through one.
    I've seen multiple video clips of multiple occasions where Trump clearly asked his followers to act peacefully. In case you have so much as a clip where he tried to instigate violence feel free to tell me.

    Also kindly note that I am not pro Trump. I am against the lying media, against obvious election manipulations, and against the political swamp (no matter the party) which doesn't care sh_t about the american people, again, no matter the political party.

    The problem with democracy is that by definition > 85% of the voters are not particularly intelligent.

  • NyrNyr Member

    @vovler said: So BuyVM at NY w/a DDOS Protected IP and TBs and TBs of slabs

    The slabs are a bad idea, they absolutely need to separate frontend and backend to be able to switch providers fast.

    I don't think BuyVM would be my first choice if I were in their position, but can be a good and fast option to get started while they create a plan for the long term.

    Given that they have a decent amount of money to burn, they can do better than putting a relatively small provider in a difficult position with their upstream.

  • edited January 11

    @jsg said:

    @LosPollosHermanos said:

    @jsg said:
    anti-Trump witch-hunt.

    He instigated an attempted coup, which failed like everything else he does, and you are still trying to call it a witch-hunt?

    What a pile of BS! A coup looks very different and you should be happy to obviously never having lived through one.
    I've seen multiple video clips of multiple occasions where Trump clearly asked his followers to act peacefully. In case you have so much as a clip where he tried to instigate violence feel free to tell me.

    Also kindly note that I am not pro Trump. I am against the lying media, against obvious election manipulations, and against the political swamp (no matter the party) which doesn't care sh_t about the american people, again, no matter the political party.

    They beat a cop with an American flag. They beat another cop to death with a fire extinguisher. You are piece of garbage for supporting these people. I won't respond to you again.

    Thanked by 1t0ny0
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @LosPollosHermanos said:
    You are piece of garbage for supporting these people.

    Just because you disagree does not give you the right to sling insults.

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  • @Nyr said: Given that they have a decent amount of money to burn, they can do better than putting a relatively small provider in a difficult position with their upstream.

    But big providers want to save face against the left media, so I doubt anyone big would take them in for PR reasons.
    But if they find someone, good for them.

    "They said it's RAID 5" - geekypixal

  • WinneWinne Member

    @LosPollosHermanos said:

    @jsg said:

    @LosPollosHermanos said:

    @jsg said:
    anti-Trump witch-hunt.

    He instigated an attempted coup, which failed like everything else he does, and you are still trying to call it a witch-hunt?

    What a pile of BS! A coup looks very different and you should be happy to obviously never having lived through one.
    I've seen multiple video clips of multiple occasions where Trump clearly asked his followers to act peacefully. In case you have so much as a clip where he tried to instigate violence feel free to tell me.

    Also kindly note that I am not pro Trump. I am against the lying media, against obvious election manipulations, and against the political swamp (no matter the party) which doesn't care sh_t about the american people, again, no matter the political party.

    They beat a cop with an American flag. They beat another cop to death with a fire extinguisher. You are piece of garbage for supporting these people. I won't respond to you again.

    From the same people shouting "BLUE LIVES MATTER" and "LAW AND ORDER".

    The fucking irony man.

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  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    These kinds of threads never end well.

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This discussion has been closed.