Providers, would you host Parler?

farsighter

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1348373925080793095

Francisco

Sure.

Francisco

Nyr

Most providers in this forum are not independent enough to make this decision.

Of those who can, most are not keen to host a customer like this, because it comes with guaranteed harassment from some media outlets, potential boycotts, personal attacks, etc.

uzaysan

I'm not american nor a trump supporter. but this is wrong. Amazon rejected hosting parler and Google removed parler app from play store. Apple also threatening them. İ see the point. Trump and supporters creates violents. But trump and his supporters did the same in twitter. But no body rejected hosting Twitter or google didn't remove twitter app from play store. This situation is a giant "i can do fuckever i want and there is nothing you can do about it". As a foreigner, this looks wrong

_MS_

@Nyr said:
Of those who can, most are not keen to host a customer like this, because it comes with guaranteed harassment from some media outlets, potential boycotts, personal attacks, etc.

"There is no such thing as bad publicity."
Some hosts may want that free publicity.

Or, host because they share/support that side's ideology. Recently, a respected forum member and owner of another forum banned another respected member/community contributor due to political differences. Hosts/service providers are not always neutral, most of the times it's business but it can also be personal.

serv_ee

What's parler?

benj0x

@serv_ee said:
What's parler?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parler

HostSlick

Yes

LTniger

Here is Spartan Host Ltd. which hosted 8chan until krebsonsecurity.com debunked it:

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/10/qanon-8chan-sites-briefly-knocked-offline

So yes, if you pay enough, people will take a risk. Money talks.

arifur

@uzaysan said:
I'm not american nor a trump supporter. but this is wrong. Amazon rejected hosting parler and Google removed parler app from play store. Apple also threatening them. İ see the point. Trump and supporters creates violents. But trump and his supporters did the same in twitter. But no body rejected hosting Twitter or google didn't remove twitter app from play store. This situation is a giant "i can do fuckever i want and there is nothing you can do about it". As a foreigner, this looks wrong

I totally agree with you. This is called hypocrisy or double standard

Edit: BTW I am not an American, I also don't care about US politics or politics in general.

serv_ee

@uzaysan said:
I'm not american nor a trump supporter. but this is wrong. Amazon rejected hosting parler and Google removed parler app from play store. Apple also threatening them. İ see the point. Trump and supporters creates violents. But trump and his supporters did the same in twitter. But no body rejected hosting Twitter or google didn't remove twitter app from play store. This situation is a giant "i can do fuckever i want and there is nothing you can do about it". As a foreigner, this looks wrong

No one can actually reject hosting twitter tho.

marvel

@Nyr said:
Most providers in this forum are not independent enough to make this decision.

Of those who can, most are not keen to host a customer like this, because it comes with guaranteed harassment from some media outlets, potential boycotts, personal attacks, etc.

Exactly this.

The issue is, most people are on Facebook, Twitter etc. already so anyone not be able to use those platforms will come to Parler and before you know it it's full of extreme right-wing people. It will soon become the sewer of the social media networks.

Same with Tor, it's purpose was providing uncensored internet to everyone even in countries with great firewalls but for 99% it's only being used to share child porn, sell weapons, drug trafficking, copyright violation etc. so no provider is keen on hosting that either.

So no, as much as I hate social media I wouldn't host Parler.

gooliver

He should join us and apply for NanoKVM.

SGraf

No. As i currently don't have a good enough spare capacity in .us and hosting it in Europe would likely result in a less than optimal user experience, due to the increased round-trip-time.

serv_ee

@SGraf said:
No. As i currently don't have a good enough spare capacity in .us and hosting it in Europe would likely result in a less than optimal user experience, due to the increased round-trip-time.

Yeaaaah hosting these kinds of things in the EU isn't a good idea anywya.

jsg

Congratulations, USA, you have finally found a way to completely suppress freedom of opinion and speech to a degree possibly worse than certain countries whom you never tire of accusing of not being free. What an achievement!

No, I'm not a Trump supporter nor do I think that he is a great man or a genius - but I'm sure that the "left", "liberal" Gestapo is just about to create immense damage some of which will take decades to repair.

One day, so I hope, the lesson will be learned. The remedy against (allegedly or factually) unacceptable or plain false views NEVER is suppression and punishment, but properly proving what is considered correct.
In fact suppression and punishment fuels, nourishes, and often confirms the views one doesn't like.

If I hated the USA I'd dance right now and enjoy what's happening there since a while. I warmly wish that both the USA and Parler may recover.

Rambler

Yeah, of course.

I'd host an antifa site just as much as I would host a proud boy site.

Freedom of speech is for everyone, and everyone's money spends the same regardless if I personally align myself with their views or not.

Parler should just rent a rack or two, unsure how much hardware they'd need to power their site. Colo owned gear, do localized high availability, DC's aren't household names and are less likely to cave to the pressure of SJW cry babies.

Jio

I see nothing wrong with private companies refusing to do business with another private company.

jackb

@jsg said:
Congratulations, USA, you have finally found a way to completely suppress freedom of opinion and speech to a degree possibly worse than certain countries whom you never tire of accusing of not being free. What an achievement!

No, I'm not a Trump supporter nor do I think that he is a great man or a genius - but I'm sure that the "left", "liberal" Gestapo is just about to create immense damage some of which will take decades to repair.

One day, so I hope, the lesson will be learned. The remedy against (allegedly or factually) unacceptable or plain false views NEVER is suppression and punishment, but properly proving what is considered correct.
In fact suppression and punishment fuels, nourishes, and often confirms the views one doesn't like.

If I hated the USA I'd dance right now and enjoy what's happening there since a while. I warmly wish that both the USA and Parler may recover.

Freedom of opinion/expression doesn't cover incitement of violence. Private businesses are also free to serve who they like, as long as they're not discriminating on a protected characteristic - so Amazon are perfectly within their rights to cut ties if they wish.

If the US government were arresting peaceful protestors for voicing their views, I'd agree there was a problem.

jsg

@jackb said:
Freedom of opinion/expression doesn't cover incitement of violence. ...

Assertion != Fact.
I've yet to see a credible court to determine that there was incitement of violence. Plus, and importantly, I've yet to see proper attribution and proof.
There seem to be indications of both sides being the guilty party (antifa and pro-Trumpers) and it's definitely neither the medias nor the tech-corporations job to (pre-) determine the guilty party.

And btw, last time I checked it was courts who are to determine guilt - not companies.

If the US government were arresting peaceful protestors for voicing their views, I'd agree there was a problem.

Thanks for the laugh, I've learned a whole lot about "peaceful protests" during the last year or so.
Examples: BLM and antifa crowds looting, detroying, and burning down houses and shops -> "largely peaceful protests". Pro-Trump crowds not only really peacefully protesting and even protecting police officers -> "violent right-wing extremists".

Well noted, again, I'm not pro (nor anti) Trump, and I'm a European so I probably should enjoy the USA walking towards a Gestapo state, but I don't hate Americans - but I do hate injustice as well as lynching "justice", and that's exactly what I currently see.

Jio

@jsg said: There seem to be indications of both sides being the guilty party (antifa and pro-Trumpers) and it's definitely neither the medias nor the tech-corporations jub to (pre-) determine the guilty party.

I lived in US when I had a contractor software role and the most strange thing to me is how unchecked the left became. With the left it's like racism circled in a loop and became racism again. Imagine being brown, yellow, and being told "you are considered white passing and not a person of colour", insane diversity workshop where the "whites and white passing" were split off into a separate shaming class, how the hell did that happen?

For what it's wirth my thought is the services don't need to host shitty speech and have no obligation to, I have routinely seen Twitter ban leftist accounts that tell people to kill themselves and similar, it is not all one way.

jsg

@Jio

There are also movement seriously(!) demand that the voice of white people should carry less weight while the voice of black people should carry more weight at election. In other words: point blank pure racism ... haven't see Dorsey being concerned about that though. But then that is woke racism and not "evil right-wing" racism (which btw. I've yet to see at all).

Let's wait and see whether "Gap" stays alive. I don't hold my breath as it's obvious that the "left" Gestapo is growing day by day.

yoursunny

Our Antarctica summer host allows all controversial content, as long as the content is yo.
yo is the only packet supported on our networks.
We have peering agreement with other major IPv9 networks, including North Pole and Mars.

jsg

@yoursunny said:
Our Antarctica summer host allows all controversial content, as long as the content is yo.
yo is the only packet supported on our networks.
We have peering agreement with other major IPv9 networks, including North Pole and Mars.

I LOVE your summer host and its connectivity (although a good ISS link should reach 120 Kb/s) but I have a problem: 8 GB disk is more than I need and at the same time I'd like to save some money. Any chances to get a VPS with just 300 MB disk and at a price lower than free?

lyb9b

Propably only big hosting companies can host Parler, I am sure that Parler host will be target of DDoS (Cloudflare is not solution for everything, rofl)

serv_ee

@jsg said:

@yoursunny said:
Our Antarctica summer host allows all controversial content, as long as the content is yo.
yo is the only packet supported on our networks.
We have peering agreement with other major IPv9 networks, including North Pole and Mars.

I LOVE your summer host and its connectivity (although a good ISS link should reach 120 Kb/s) but I have a problem: 8 GB disk is more than I need and at the same time I'd like to save some money. Any chances to get a VPS with just 300 MB disk and at a price lower than free?

I can surely offer what you're after for. And as a bonus I'll pay you $7 each month for using it.

yoursunny

@jsg said:

@yoursunny said:
Our Antarctica summer host allows all controversial content, as long as the content is yo.
yo is the only packet supported on our networks.
We have peering agreement with other major IPv9 networks, including North Pole and Mars.

I LOVE your summer host and its connectivity (although a good ISS link should reach 120 Kb/s) but I have a problem: 8 GB disk is more than I need and at the same time I'd like to save some money. Any chances to get a VPS with just 300 MB disk and at a price lower than free?

Sorry buddy, the disk is needed to store the protein bars.
Packets aren't stored on the disk because there's only one type of packet and information theory says it conveys zero bit of information, so that they compressed down to nothing.

---

@lyb9b said:
Cloudflare is not solution for everything, rofl

https://bit.ly/sunnyROFL

ehhthing

@Francisco said:
Sure.

Francisco

Do you think Cloudflare would have anything to say about this if Parler opted for your DDoS protection services?

rchurch

The Parler guys should have seen it coming. Perhaps Parler should try Azure hosting. Microsoft has a tougher stance on such issues.

The simple truth is Parler's management engineers suck. They should have planned for this and rehearsed it, and should have been ready to switch providers.

Their servers should be spread out among different providers and coordinated. Performance would be lower but it would still be up.

These policies will backfire against Google and Amazon eventually, and Stripe as well.

Once these right-leaning types adopt a long term strategy, they will defeat these providers in the long term. The only reason for depending on them is if you want money from then. If you don't want their money they can't pressure you.

hyperblast

what is happening in the u.s.? a firestorm to purify?

LTniger

@rchurch said: Microsoft has a tougher stance on such issues.

Nope. When government contracts will go to Amazon for this, they will boot anything in a speed of light.

This is politics. And those who are in a far right will gladly take over this "parler" hosting and smile wide.

yoursunny

@rchurch said:
The simple truth is Parler's management engineers suck. They should have planned for this and rehearsed it, and should have been ready to switch providers.

They should use a fully distributed network architecture such as Named Data Networking or Pied Piper. There would be no servers. The data survives as long as there are users.

kaleaware

@Nyr said:
Most providers in this forum are not independent enough to make this decision.

Of those who can, most are not keen to host a customer like this, because it comes with guaranteed harassment from some media outlets, potential boycotts, personal attacks, etc.

Can you please provide examples of "harassment from some media outlets" that have been directed to hosts of inflamattory right-wing platforms (yes, I use inflamattory deliberately). Or is the issue your understanding of the word 'harassment'?

kaleaware

@jsg said:
the "left", "liberal" Gestapo.

Gestapo? Love how you pretend that you're not a Trump supporter and then throw around such characterisations.

Nyr

@kaleaware said: Can you please provide examples of "harassment from some media outlets" that have been directed to hosts of inflamattory right-wing platforms (yes, I use inflamattory deliberately). Or is the issue your understanding of the word 'harassment'?

Since the English language does not have an official dictionary, there is not an authoritative meaning for a word.

I will go with the Cambridge Dictionary:

harassment
noun

behaviour that annoys or upsets someone

I am pretty sure that independent hosts do get annoyed by political media and "activists" trying to influence or put pressure in their business decisions and relationships.

This is not a political matter to me as I am a neutral party to this conflict and American drama in general, the only thing which worries me is the increasing centralization and regulation of online discussion to a ridiculous extent. Many people is going to regret this direction in some years from now, but it will be too late.

LosPollosHermanos

@uzaysan said:
I'm not american nor a trump supporter. but this is wrong. Amazon rejected hosting parler and Google removed parler app from play store. Apple also threatening them. İ see the point. Trump and supporters creates violents. But trump and his supporters did the same in twitter. But no body rejected hosting Twitter or google didn't remove twitter app from play store. This situation is a giant "i can do fuckever i want and there is nothing you can do about it". As a foreigner, this looks wrong

The supreme court recently ruled that a wedding cake baker had the right to refuse service to a couple that wanted them to make a gay wedding cake. Yes, it is the same thing. So you should go argue with the supreme court about it.

jsg

@kaleaware said:

@jsg said:
the "left", "liberal" Gestapo.

Gestapo? Love how you pretend that you're not a Trump supporter and then throw around such characterisations.

It's not my choice. Those media and tech corporations are well known - and in part even saying themselves to be "left" and "liberal". And their actions are Gestapo-like.

And no, again, I'm not a Trump supporter.My only reason to vote for that man whom I experienced again and again as incompetent, promising a lot but delivering little, would be the fact that he is the only available alternative to the woke "liberal" crowd. It's none of your business but if I were an American and she was on the vote sheet I'd vote for Tulsi Gabbard, not for Trump.

LosPollosHermanos

If the rumor that is circulating today is true, someone supposedly hacked Parler and data dumped everything including everyone's post history, IP address, and contact info. So I think a lot of their users might be unavailable for the next little while to use the service anyways

This is not the rumor from several weeks ago that turned out to be false. This is a new rumor.

I think AWS keeps a copy of this stuff as well. Especially now since Parler is suing them. I am sure the FBI will want to get a hold of that.

tehdartherer

@jsg said:

@kaleaware said:

@jsg said:
the "left", "liberal" Gestapo.

Gestapo? Love how you pretend that you're not a Trump supporter and then throw around such characterisations.

It's not my choice. Those media and tech corporations are well known - and in part even saying themselves to be "left" and "liberal". And their actions are Gestapo-like.

And no, again, I'm not a Trump supporter.My only reason to vote for that man whom I experienced again and again as incompetent, promising a lot but delivering little, would be the fact that he is the only available alternative to the woke "liberal" crowd. It's none of your business but if I were an American and she was on the vote sheet I'd vote for Tulsi Gabbard, not for Trump.

You should start reading about what the Gestapo actually did and stop talking such non-sense.

lonea

Not really.

Policies and guidelines.

Also... perhaps EULA.

There's a reason why Parler's lawyer are dropping them as well.

Maybe they're waiting for Rudy G to come rescue them at the 4 seasons.

@uzaysan said: This situation is a giant "i can do fuckever i want and there is nothing you can do about it". As a foreigner, this looks wrong

farsighter

Update:
Parler moves to a right-wing web-hosting firm after suing Amazon for antitrust violations for shutting down their app and their CEO said he would re-build the site from scratch

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9134897/Parler-CEO-says-doing-Facebook-Twitter-remove-violent-content.html

Bertie

@Francisco said: Sure.

What if your upstreams threaten to pull the plug for hosting Parler?

What recourse do hosts really have at that point?

Francisco

@Bertie said: What if your upstreams threaten to pull the plug for hosting Parler?

What recourse do hosts really have at that point?

Always an issue, but I don't think upstreams want to get into that business since it puts them into questionable waters, especially depending on how Net Neutrality stuff goes from here.

For us personally I brought this all up as a concern in the early summer where I discussed wanting to sprawl out our network so we could be less reliant on transit providers and overall more resistant to bullshit like this.

It's not cheap to do, but it's something I've been slowly pricing out incase things go to 11 and I gotta get it done and fast.

Francisco

DataWagon

@Bertie said:

@Francisco said: Sure.

What if your upstreams threaten to pull the plug for hosting Parler?

What recourse do hosts really have at that point?

Upstreams don't often take action like that, unless content being hosted is blatantly illegal. Nothing on Parler is really 'illegal', unless they're hosting CP or copyrighted content, which I don't think is the reason Amazon booted them.

The day tier 1 upstreams start playing games like this is a bad day for the internet and our society as a whole.

lonea

Depending on the location, hate speech is illegal.

@DataWagon said: Nothing on Parler is really 'illegal', unless they're hosting CP or copyrighted content, which I don't think is the reason Amazon booted them.

DataWagon

@lonea said:
Depending on the location, hate speech is illegal.

@DataWagon said: Nothing on Parler is really 'illegal', unless they're hosting CP or copyrighted content, which I don't think is the reason Amazon booted them.

Not in the good ole' USA.

LosPollosHermanos

It's not just the hosting providers who won't work with them. Supposedly it's also credit card companies, payment processors, email providers, DNS providers etc.

MatthewM

@LTniger said:
Here is Spartan Host Ltd. which hosted 8chan until krebsonsecurity.com debunked it:

https://krebsonsecurity.com/2020/10/qanon-8chan-sites-briefly-knocked-offline

So yes, if you pay enough, people will take a risk. Money talks.

Kerb is a hypocrite. He claim DDOS attacks are censorship than tries to get DDOS protection removed from a site he dislikes.

VirMach

If we had the influence, sure.

However, it's looking like it would be a full-on legal battle with any datacenter we utilize, carriers, even credit card processors going after us for standing up for free speech so it would not really be a possibility. Ultimately though, as long as they're abiding by our terms of service and it does sound like they would be doing that, and as long as they deal with DMCA takedown requests and cooperate with law enforcement where necessary, I do not see a problem with their website itself.

Some people mention the size/attacks being a problem, but at the Amazon AWS prices they were paying... anything's possible there.

@Jio said: I see nothing wrong with private companies refusing to do business with another private company.

I would usually agree with you here. However, some of these private companies are essentially running something that's at this point an irreplaceable part of our lives. They're also monopolies. If the barriers of entry were reduced, and sites such as Parler could more realistically find another host within the level of notice AWS provided them that actually had the power to host them for at least years instead of days before the situation continues to escalate... then sure.

I'm okay with them being kicked off the App stores, albeit I still think that's a bad move by Google and Apple. But they're essentially being kicked off the clearnet at this point. Outside of maybe finding some host in Russia, maybe and if it cools down enough to where they won't continue to lose essential infrastructure partners there too. Which it looks like, they definitely will.

godslayer

Dear parler owners,

Contact @cociu

asgard

@benj0x said:

@serv_ee said:
What's parler?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parler

Well you would not be able to believe anything on Wikipedia and I am Australian. Plenty of confirmed facts they label as conspiracy theories and plenty of intelligent people they label as conspiracy theorists. Just get me a server provider that does not use amazon and I will be happy.