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Inception Hosting - Poor Customer Service - Page 2
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Inception Hosting - Poor Customer Service

2

Comments

  • @AnthonySmith said: FR record added.

    Thank you for doing the right thing.

    OP, PayPal even sends the confirmation mails saying you have setup an automatic payment towards XY. You've messed up big time not once but twice by filing for a reversal.

    /topic?

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited November 2020

    If you file a dispute, you will get your account locked until it is resolved.

    That will happen everywhere in webhosting. It is a form of a retaliation since you seem to love that word.

    But you started it to be fair. Don't let PMS drive you.

  • wdmgwdmg Member, LIR

    @chaoszero112 said: So retaliation?

    It's very common if you file dispute(s) or chargebacks with providers (not just hosting -- telcos, streaming, etc) they will terminate your account for it. You can chargeback netflix if you wanted, watch how fast they close your account.

    Next time, patience will prevail.

    Thanked by 1chocolateshirt
  • K4Y5K4Y5 Member
    edited November 2020

    @chaoszero112 said:

    @AnthonySmith said:
    Hi,

    just going to leave this: image

    And this: https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/2049/remember-to-cancel-paypal-subscriptions/p1 here.

    Except they locked my account because I opened a support ticket.. So..

    You filed a PayPal reversal/claim (not a dispute) which is why your account was locked.

    So retaliation?

    Thanked by 2wdmg vimalware
  • @chaoszero112 - You opened a PayPal dispute, so you brought this to yourself. Now let PayPal decide, and avoid Inception Hosting, because you did not wish to solve it with the provider first. PayPal will give your money back, and case is closed.

  • cociucociu Member
    edited November 2020

    @samm said: I am not sure if you know this but Anthony publicly said this many times that a paypal dispute means no communication with customer resulting account locked and he also supports those providers who practice similar scenario. But then again paypal subscription is customer's responsibility.

    we do the same , way ? not for not refund or keep any amount for free , let change the place for a wile , having xxx disputes/day/week/month (only god know wich is the limit) result in block paypal account entirely in may case , and been a provider who pay every day (a business account wich is used for pay and receive money) is the wrost nightmare what one can get. I have past this 3 times due of charge back and i know what i told. I AM 100% agree with block the account and no talk anymore. We have tiketing most of us , webpage , lifechat , skype or whatever way to discuss before file a dispute directly . So ... my 2 cents was proceed 100% correct.

    Thanked by 1chocolateshirt
  • jackbjackb Member, Host Rep
    edited November 2020

    @chaoszero112 said:
    So retaliation?

    If you eat a meal at a restaurant (or perhaps as a better analogy, buy a gift card) and then have your card provider pull the payment, would you be remotely surprised if you were refused a table the next day?

    Chargebacks should be a measure of last resort. I don't have any sympathy for your case I'm afraid - from what you've posted here it sounds like you acted far too fast on this one.

    Thanked by 1wdmg
  • It's clear there are going to be 2 sides. I don't see anything productive coming from "It's your fault, it's their fault" comments. I have admitted fault, and simply stated their side could have handled it better.

    Here are the simple take aways:

    • The service was great at first, but slowly degraded.
    • They use a Subscription-based model where you subscribe to sending them x amount of funds at a set interval.
    • Other provides use an Agreement based model where an invoice is generated and they collect the funds on the due date.
    • Subscription-based does not appear to be the standard with any of the other providers, Inception Hosting seems to be the only one on my PayPal list that does this practice, which can lead to a payment trap.
    • I recognize it as being my fault for sending the payment in error.
    • I was also stupid for mentioning anything law related.
    • Inception Hosting seems plainly aware of the pitfalls of using the Subscription-based model but have done nothing to address it (ie switch from Subscription to Agreement billing with PayPal)
    • Despite opening a PayPal claim or dispute, it can still be cancelled by the initiator. The parties can still come to an agreement outside of PayPal (in fact, it's encouraged).
    • There is no requirement to lock the disputed account, especially when it's the main means of communication between the parties. Freezing the disputed funds would have been acceptable.
    • They also could have said "we are locking the account until the PayPal claim is resolved" instead of simply locking it out with no word.
    • The response from Inception Hosting was not that of empathy or pro-consumer, but rather a "sucks to be you" robot reply. It was clear they've seen the scenario numerous times but don't see it as something that needs to be addressed to prevent it in the first place.

    This was not meant to be a bashing post. Simply a review on how they handle situations with their customers.

    I did not feel like a customer, just a source of income.

  • yoursunnyyoursunny Member, IPv6 Advocate

    PayPal case is usually a bad idea except with eBay sellers.

    Last time I bought physical goods online but received broken units, so I opened PayPal case.
    Seller emailed me that they would refund me for affected items, but only after I close the case.
    I declined and escalated to PayPal case, and PayPal's decision was that I must pay shipping fee to return the physical goods to the seller - the shipping fee would be as much as the anticipated refund.
    I eventually closed the claim, and the seller refunded me afterwards.
    My account didn't get locked though.

    Although PayPal labels its "case" to be a communication channel with the seller (PayPal steps in when escalated to "claim"), apparently many sellers are unable to process a refund over there.

  • chaoszero112chaoszero112 Member
    edited November 2020

    @wdmg said:

    @chaoszero112 said: So retaliation?

    It's very common if you file dispute(s) or chargebacks with providers (not just hosting -- telcos, streaming, etc) they will terminate your account for it. You can chargeback netflix if you wanted, watch how fast they close your account.

    Next time, patience will prevail.

    @jackb said:

    @chaoszero112 said:
    So retaliation?

    If you eat a meal at a restaurant (or perhaps as a better analogy, buy a gift card) and then have your card provider pull the payment, would you be remotely surprised if you were refused a table the next day?

    Chargebacks should be a measure of last resort. I don't have any sympathy for your case I'm afraid - from what you've posted here it sounds like you acted far too fast on this one.

    The act was only due to a very unfriendly greeting to a simply inquiry. Customer service starts with empathy, not pointing blame.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Customer service starts with empathy?

    I believe that was true in 80s and 90s. In 2020? No, not really, especially not in this industry of lowend.

  • @chaoszero112 said:

    @wdmg said:

    @chaoszero112 said: So retaliation?

    It's very common if you file dispute(s) or chargebacks with providers (not just hosting -- telcos, streaming, etc) they will terminate your account for it. You can chargeback netflix if you wanted, watch how fast they close your account.

    Next time, patience will prevail.

    @jackb said:

    @chaoszero112 said:
    So retaliation?

    If you eat a meal at a restaurant (or perhaps as a better analogy, buy a gift card) and then have your card provider pull the payment, would you be remotely surprised if you were refused a table the next day?

    Chargebacks should be a measure of last resort. I don't have any sympathy for your case I'm afraid - from what you've posted here it sounds like you acted far too fast on this one.

    The act was only due to a very unfriendly greeting to a simply inquiry. Customer service starts with empathy, not pointing blame.

    To be a customer, you need to read and accept provider ToS.

    Thanked by 1wdmg
  • @deank said:
    Customer service starts with empathy?

    I believe that was true in 80s and 90s. In 2020? No, not really, especially not in this industry of lowend.

    I've am/have been a customer with SSDNodes and Virmach, both from LET.

    I've had an issue here or there, but each time I was treated as a customer. Didn't feel that way here.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll
    edited November 2020

    Feelings are too subjective to consider as anything but a dream.

    So, based on what you've stated, you opened a dispute because you felt unwelcome without attempting to communicate further.

    Is that assessment correct?

  • @deank said:
    Feelings are too subjective to consider as anything but a dream.

    So, based on what you've stated, you opened a dispute because you felt unwelcome without attempting to communicate further.

    Is that assessment correct?

    Partially. The provider made it clear they did not want to communicate further. A dispute was the means of keeping the communication channel open. A dispute or claim doesn't, and shouldn't, mean communications get severed.

    Having a dispute opened with PayPal is not a negative. If either party feels they are talking to a wall, it's a useful tool to bring in a mediator. There are no repercussions at that stage. If a party is continually losing those disputes, that's when it can become a negative strike against the account.

  • You are clearly did not read provider ToS and make your own term..

  • @chocolateshirt said:
    You are clearly did not read provider ToS and make your own term..

    I already stated, I made the mistake. I'm stating what can be done better.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Then the matter is settled.

    Paypal will side with you. And the host clearly did not "steal".

    Thanked by 1yoursunny
  • chaoszero112chaoszero112 Member
    edited November 2020

    @deank said:
    Then the matter is settled.

    Paypal will side with you. And the host clearly did not "steal".

    The disputed amount was €24.00. The account has €48.00. They are entitled to freeze €24.00, but have blocked access to all funds. As I have no access to any of the funds, they have, at the current time, stolen €24.00.

    Edit: I removed reference to stolen funds in the title, as it was a bit unfair. I won't know what will happen to those funds until PayPal makes a decision.

  • Turns out Chaos is a zero-sum game.

  • I don't like the Paypal subscription thing either. It's very confusing and sounds totally absurd at first. At least most people I know in my life would assume if you stopped using the service you paid for, the subscription should be automatically terminated. There should be an built in module in providers billing system to handle that. However it is not how the PayPal subscription works.

    I feel your pain but it's just how it is. Just consider your money is already lost and move on.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    Subscription-based does not appear to be the standard with any of the other providers

    It's the default. It's the only recurring PayPal method built in to WHMCS, the most popular software for hosting billing automation.

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    Hi,

    just going to leave this: image

    And this: https://talk.lowendspirit.com/discussion/2049/remember-to-cancel-paypal-subscriptions/p1 here.

    Except they locked my account because I opened a support ticket.. So..

    You filed a PayPal reversal/claim (not a dispute) which is why your account was locked.

    Typical case of someone shitting on your doorstep and then waking you up at 3am to demand toilet paper.

    FR record added.

    Happy Black Friday folks, please remember to look after your own money, as you know, it's yours, this is in the hands of PayPal now, any power to remedy the situation was taken away from me.

    See you, guys next year, I am sure this thread will descend into drama, you are welcome to it :)

    It's the supreme cock gobbler himself in the flesh :-0

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    @jar said:
    It's the default. It's the only recurring PayPal method built in to WHMCS, the most popular software for hosting billing automation.

    Paypal sub feature has been around, like what, 10 years now? If not more.
    They could have improved it but nah. I guess this is better for them overall.

    I personally use Paypal only to make one-time purchases. I've never used Paypal sub because, when I read it over, it was a recipe for disaster.
    People forget and they forget fast & quickly. Paypal sub depends on one's memory.

  • @Kiwi83 said:
    I don't like the Paypal subscription thing either. It's very confusing and sounds totally absurd at first. At least most people I know in my life would assume if you stopped using the service you paid for, the subscription should be automatically terminated. There should be an built in module in providers billing system to handle that. However it is not how the PayPal subscription works.

    I feel your pain but it's just how it is. Just consider your money is already lost and move on.

    Providers can use 2 methods; Subscriptions and Agreements.

    If they use Agreements, which majority use, there wouldn't even be a thread here now.

    With an agreement, they send you an invoice and then charge you on the due date. This way, you get notice before a charge and the dollar amount can be dynamic.

    When it's subscription based, the same amount is set to send at a set date and repeat.

    I got the impression Inception is very use to these erroneous subscription payments. But despite having a solution of easily switching billing methods with no cost to them, they continue to use it.

    I could care less about the funds now. It was my mistake. But why does Inception choose to continue using a method that can land their customers in an accidental payment loop?

    @jar said:

    Subscription-based does not appear to be the standard with any of the other providers

    It's the default. It's the only recurring PayPal method built in to WHMCS, the most popular software for hosting billing automation.

    The only 2 providers in my PayPal account that used a set interval subscription based payment model were WootHosting and Inception Hosting.

    I guess the others got plugins?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited November 2020

    Haven't used enough I guess. I've got like 5 pages of subscriptions. Just the ones using that model.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Paypal agreement is a dangerous thing. I wouldn't trust a host to have it.

    It basically allows an entity which you have the agreement with to withdraw funds at will.

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    @deank said:
    Paypal agreement is a dangerous thing. I wouldn't trust a host to have it.

    It basically allows an entity which you have the agreement with to withdraw funds at will.

    I'm thinking about adding it for just that reason and it should scare anyone with a reason to be. Like the guy who signed up the other day and intentionally sent 900 unsolicited marketing emails right away, we both know he's not paying that $900 invoice.

    Thanked by 1kalimov622
  • UnbelievableUnbelievable Member
    edited November 2020

    @jar - it doesnt prevent people from cancelling the agreement as soon as they sign up for a service. Once they have sent payment they can cancel agreement and/or subscription and you can't withdraw funds from them anymore.

    And everyone should cancel agreements/subs as soon as they have had their purchase amount taken from their account

    Thanked by 3jar adly pullangcubo
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Hah!

    Indeed, that might work to your advantage.

    Thanked by 2jar vimalware
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