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β€Ί No More WHMCS Owned License Sales/Transfers on LET
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No More WHMCS Owned License Sales/Transfers on LET

raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

WHMCS no longer allows license transfers. Since the only way to accomplish a license transfer is the sketchy "sell the whole account" method, we are no longer allowing WHMCS license sales.

The rules have been updated and generalized to cover all software where the vendor doesn't permit third party sales.

For LET support, please visit the support desk.

Comments

  • thanks dad

    Thanked by 1imok

    lurking in the shadows like a wombat or some shit

  • ViridWebViridWeb Member, Provider

    Make this thread sticky, at least for few months

    Thanked by 2Francisco webcraft

    ViridWeb.com - Reseller Web Hosting | Litespeed + SSH Access + Free Blesta + IPv6 Compatible.
    CIN: U72900WB2018OPC226882 | GST: 19AAGCV4976R1Z4

  • experttechitexperttechit Member, Provider

    Great πŸ‘

  • vpsGODvpsGOD Member, Provider

    i am happy to be part of LET which make the industry safe

    vpsgod.com : Shared | Reseller | VPS | RDP | Dedi | VPS Reseller

    $16/yr VPS- ovz7 NL| 256MB RAM

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @vpsGOD said:
    i am happy to be part of LET which make the industry safe

    lol.

    You slay me.

    Francisco

    BuyVM - Free DirectAdmin, Softaculous, & Blesta! / Anycast Support! / Windows 2008, 2012, & 2016! / Unmetered Bandwidth!
    BuyShared - Shared & Reseller Hosting / cPanel + Softaculous + CloudLinux / Pure SSD! / Free Dedicated IP Address
  • @vpsGOD said: i am happy to be part of LET which make the industry safe

    exists

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    Can we owners of multiple licenses lease them then?

    Thanked by 1wdmg
  • @randvegeta said:
    Can we owners of multiple licenses lease them then?

    I don't think WHMCS' ToS allow that. And I believe it would be pretty unsafe for companies as you (even though you probably won't) are able to revoke the license causing service interruptions.

    Thanked by 2wdmg randvegeta
  • Warming us up for the inevitable price increase.

    Thanked by 1Francisco
  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    @HyperK9 said:

    @randvegeta said:
    Can we owners of multiple licenses lease them then?

    I don't think WHMCS' ToS allow that. And I believe it would be pretty unsafe for companies as you (even though you probably won't) are able to revoke the license causing service interruptions.

    Hypothetical scenario only. Who cares about a few $10/m.

    That said. Interesting that WHMCS can just cchange their TOS willy nilly.

    You buy a license told you can do XYZ, and years later, they say NOPE! That's not cool.

  • NeoonNeoon Member

    @vpsGOD said:
    i am happy to be part of LET which make the industry safe

    See, the LET CC v4 club is invite only, there is no point in trying to join it by force.
    However, if you shitpost, it gets unlikely.

    Thanked by 1vpsGOD
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @randvegeta said: You buy a license told you can do XYZ, and years later, they say NOPE! That's not cool.

    Does your license actually say that? i.e., the contract you and they agreed to when you bought it?

    I have a feeling this was a policy on their site and was covered in the usual "subject to change without notice".

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Now, I shall wait for "My WHMCS license got revoked for no reason, SCAM!" threads.

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    @raindog308 said: Does your license actually say that? i.e., the contract you and they agreed to when you bought it?

    I have a feeling this was a policy on their site and was covered in the usual "subject to change without notice".

    Indeed. It's one of those 'subject to change' bull craps.

    Theoretically, that means they can do all kinds of crap. Such as, state that you must have your installations up to date and patched, otherwise license invalid. And then they can couple that with, you must pay a monthly license update fee of a bagillion dollars.

    I have no intention to sell or lease my licenses. It's a tiny cost for my business, and as such, would represent a tiny amount of revenue. The point is, with such a generic and ambiguous TOS, what you buy can significantly differ to what you get, over time.

    OK, I bought my licenses for sub $300, fully owned years ago, and paid update fees of $50 or whatever it was yearly. So on balance, it has long been cheaper for me to do this rather than to lease monthly. But what was theoretically an asset on the books for ~$1K is now actually worthless. Literally. If I cannot sell the license... okay fine, then at least my company can still use it. But apparently I cannot sell the account now? Meaning I cannot sell my hosting company WITH the license. I know in practice they would probably let it slide, but theoretically if I sold the company, WHMCS could just say... OOH.. LICENSE INVALID and then demand a higher monthly fee.

    Whatever though. It's not big sums we're talking about here, but it doesn't make it less annoying.

  • PHDanPHDan Member

    @randvegeta said: Theoretically, that means they can do all kinds of crap.

    Hey deank, what do you do when someone does all kinds of crap you don't like?

  • I just realized- hosts complain about everyone- every vendor, every ex employee and every customer who dares to submit a ticket or forget to cancel that 3 year old paypal subscription that helped the host buy his beer and steam games. Who do they not complain about?

    Nothing profound to say, so I'm on LET.

  • seriesnseriesn Member, Top Provider

    @Unbelievable said:
    I just realized- hosts complain about everyone- every vendor, every ex employee and every customer who dares to submit a ticket or forget to cancel that 3 year old paypal subscription that helped the host buy his beer and steam games. Who do they not complain about?

    Actually, that’s a human nature πŸ˜‚

    Thanked by 1lentro
  • I am surpirsed after YEARS, still there is still no decent open source alternative. This is what happened when someone have monopoly. They can do whetever they want, and you can't do shit against it.

  • @yokowasis said:
    I am surpirsed after YEARS, still there is still no decent open source alternative. This is what happened when someone have monopoly. They can do whetever they want, and you can't do shit against it.

    Blesta 99% open source.. and It's very good..

    ⚝ A simple uptime dashboard using UptimeRobot API https://upy.baubus.uk
    ⚝ Currently using VPS from BuyVM, HostHatch, HostSailor, HostSolutions, InceptionHosting, LiteServer, MaxKVM, MrVM, ServaRICA, VirMach.

  • @chocolateshirt said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I am surpirsed after YEARS, still there is still no decent open source alternative. This is what happened when someone have monopoly. They can do whetever they want, and you can't do shit against it.

    Blesta 99% open source.. and It's very good..

    Open Source as in Community Driven like wordpress / Vesta / Hestia , etc. Yes, blesta is very good. But still there is a chance it ends up like whmcs.

    You cant really suddenly be charged for installing wordpress on your website. There should be a community driven project, even better have full compatibilty with WHMCS Plugin / addon, so that the community can say F U to WHMCS team.

  • edited October 15

    @yokowasis said:

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I am surpirsed after YEARS, still there is still no decent open source alternative. This is what happened when someone have monopoly. They can do whetever they want, and you can't do shit against it.

    Blesta 99% open source.. and It's very good..

    Open Source as in Community Driven like wordpress / Vesta / Hestia , etc. Yes, blesta is very good. But still there is a chance it ends up like whmcs.

    You cant really suddenly be charged for installing wordpress on your website. There should be a community driven project, even better have full compatibilty with WHMCS Plugin / addon, so that the community can say F U to WHMCS team.

    Well what you are saying is profit oriented, so I believe it would be difficult to develop it as community driven open source project..

    ⚝ A simple uptime dashboard using UptimeRobot API https://upy.baubus.uk
    ⚝ Currently using VPS from BuyVM, HostHatch, HostSailor, HostSolutions, InceptionHosting, LiteServer, MaxKVM, MrVM, ServaRICA, VirMach.

  • @yokowasis said:

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I am surpirsed after YEARS, still there is still no decent open source alternative. This is what happened when someone have monopoly. They can do whetever they want, and you can't do shit against it.

    Blesta 99% open source.. and It's very good..

    Open Source as in Community Driven like wordpress / Vesta / Hestia , etc. Yes, blesta is very good. But still there is a chance it ends up like whmcs.

    You cant really suddenly be charged for installing wordpress on your website. There should be a community driven project, even better have full compatibilty with WHMCS Plugin / addon, so that the community can say F U to WHMCS team.

    It's open-code 99.7% so you can you can edit everything minus the licensing files.

    Paul won't allow it to follow what whmcs are doing to their customers. The guys at Blesta love their customers :) @pphillips

    Thanked by 2Shoaib_A armandorg

    Blesta.store - Authorised Blesta distributor.

  • @chocolateshirt said:

    @yokowasis said:

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I am surpirsed after YEARS, still there is still no decent open source alternative. This is what happened when someone have monopoly. They can do whetever they want, and you can't do shit against it.

    Blesta 99% open source.. and It's very good..

    Open Source as in Community Driven like wordpress / Vesta / Hestia , etc. Yes, blesta is very good. But still there is a chance it ends up like whmcs.

    You cant really suddenly be charged for installing wordpress on your website. There should be a community driven project, even better have full compatibilty with WHMCS Plugin / addon, so that the community can say F U to WHMCS team.

    Well what you are saying is profit oriented, so I believe it would be difficult to develop it as community driven open source project..

    Yes, the problem of all open source project. Lacks of income.

    @Blestastore said:

    @yokowasis said:

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I am surpirsed after YEARS, still there is still no decent open source alternative. This is what happened when someone have monopoly. They can do whetever they want, and you can't do shit against it.

    Blesta 99% open source.. and It's very good..

    Open Source as in Community Driven like wordpress / Vesta / Hestia , etc. Yes, blesta is very good. But still there is a chance it ends up like whmcs.

    You cant really suddenly be charged for installing wordpress on your website. There should be a community driven project, even better have full compatibilty with WHMCS Plugin / addon, so that the community can say F U to WHMCS team.

    It's open-code 99.7% so you can you can edit everything minus the licensing files.

    Paul won't allow it to follow what whmcs are doing to their customers. The guys at Blesta love their customers :) @pphillips

    For now yes. But People Change. So Does TOS subject to change without notice. What WHMCS does is practically bait and switch. I am not even aware you can do that. We sign a contract when we buy the lifetime license, but they can change the contract on the whim to suit their needs ?

    Even google have more honor than this guys. At least google will grand fathered old gsuite account instead of forcing new pricing.

    My point being, if WHMCS can get away with (what I call) breaching a contract and get away with it, what stopping other company to do the same ?

    There is still a possibility Blesta will change into 100% closed source. Maybe it's slim, but it still exists. After all, company can change their TOS to whatever they want, and we can't do shit against it.

    The thing with open source project like wordpress is, it start with open source, and will always be open source. no TOS, no BS.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    @PHDan said:
    Hey deank, what do you do when someone does all kinds of crap you don't like?

    Me doesn't care.

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator
    edited October 16

    @yokowasis said: My point being, if WHMCS can get away with (what I call) breaching a contract and get away with it, what stopping other company to do the same ?

    They did not breach the contract because there was never a guarantee in the contract that you could transfer the license.

    "2.2 License Transfers. The Software is licensed only to You. You may not rent, lease, sub-license, sell, assign, pledge, transfer or otherwise dispose of the Software, on a temporary or permanent basis, without the prior written consent of WHMCS Limited. (For the avoidance of doubt, this license is only granted to one person or company and if more than one person or company wishes to use the Software, each user must purchase a separate license)."

    Last Updated: 26th March 2018

    Thanked by 1ViridWeb

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    @raindog308 said:

    @yokowasis said: My point being, if WHMCS can get away with (what I call) breaching a contract and get away with it, what stopping other company to do the same ?

    They did not breach the contract because there was never a guarantee in the contract that you could transfer the license.

    "2.2 License Transfers. The Software is licensed only to You. You may not rent, lease, sub-license, sell, assign, pledge, transfer or otherwise dispose of the Software, on a temporary or permanent basis, without the prior written consent of WHMCS Limited. (For the avoidance of doubt, this license is only granted to one person or company and if more than one person or company wishes to use the Software, each user must purchase a separate license)."

    Last Updated: 26th March 2018

    What about people who bought licenses back in 2010?

    New clauses added years after the fact.

    Basically, the contract is meaningless. The saving grace to all this is that for hosting companies that are of any reasonable size, is that the amounts being discussed here are trivial. And over the period of 10 years, savings may be in the thousands, relative to paying monthly.

    So my view is, we who have purchased owned licenses have bee stiffed, but also made more than our money's worth. Contract is meaningless, and not honored, but in the grand scheme of things, not a big deal. So need some perspective.

    I dont like the direction of whmcs or cpanel or a bunch of other stuff. But I'll continue to use them for as long as it makes sense. Cpanel is definitely on the way out. I expect my cpanel servers to drop to 0 or 1 within the next 2 years.

  • Honestly just provide a copy of your contract and tell them you are enforcing it and all its provisions. The will read it and enforce every provision that can limit you. Oh, didnt keep a copy? Such is life

    Thanked by 1TimboJones

    Nothing profound to say, so I'm on LET.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    @Unbelievable said:
    Honestly just provide a copy of your contract and tell them you are enforcing it and all its provisions. The will read it and enforce every provision that can limit you. Oh, didnt keep a copy? Such is life

    As I said. It's not big sums. As such, not worth the hassle. I do actually have the original license agreement, but I suspect they get superseded with each software update.

    Presumably the argument would then be that I can only sell the licenses upto a certain update. Ones riddled with exploits.

    Not that I plan on selling any way.

  • WSWDWSWD Member, Provider

    @Unbelievable said:
    Honestly just provide a copy of your contract and tell them you are enforcing it and all its provisions. The will read it and enforce every provision that can limit you. Oh, didnt keep a copy? Such is life

    Funny...I just so happen to have the terms I agreed to in October 2010 when I bought my license. License transfers are right there. Weren't expecting that one were you? ;)

    Policies & Information
    End User License Agreement

    The EULA Agreement is included in the WHMCS download package. By installing, copying, or otherwise using WHMCS, you agree to be bound by the terms of the EULA.
    Delivery Policy

    All licenses are issued instantly upon receipt of payment. Should your payment turn out to be fraudulent, the license will be suspended and you will be expected to repay the amount and any fees incurred.

    Our professional services usually take between 24 & 48 hours for completion but at peak times such as new releases, they may take slightly longer.
    License Transfer Policy

    We allow owned licenses bought directly from us to be sold and transferred between people. Licenses obtained through a reseller cannot be resold. Before any sale or transfer, the seller should contact us to notify us of the sale. Once a buyer has been found, both the buyer and seller should contact us to arrange the transfer and payment of the $20 transfer fee. A license can only be resold once.

    Addons may be transferred between licenses within your own client account but not resold or transferred to other clients.
    Refunds Policy

    Refunds are only issued for software failure. Refunds are not issued for server failure/issues, lack of features or if your server does not meet the Software Requirements. Refunds are determined on individual circumstances and only issued once our technical staff determine that WHMCS has a fault causing it to not run on your server. Installation charges are not refundable under any circumstances. Refunds are not available after 1 month from the purchase date.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @WSWD said:
    Funny...I just so happen to have the terms I agreed to in October 2010 when I bought my license. License transfers are right there.

    Then I'd say you have a strong case.

    Now you just need someone who wants to transfer and has a 2010 EULA license to contact them, get denied, and sue.

    Thanked by 1randvegeta

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • pphillipspphillips Member, Host Rep

    @yokowasis said: There is still a possibility Blesta will change into 100% closed source. Maybe it's slim, but it still exists. After all, company can change their TOS to whatever they want, and we can't do shit against it.

    Not going to happen. Not a slim chance, no chance. If you don't have integrity, what do you have? Not much.

    Paul from Blesta.

  • LeeLee Member
    edited October 16

    @Unbelievable said: I just realized- hosts complain about everyone- every vendor, every ex employee and every customer

    It's because every change from a provider they rely on means their already slight $1 per year profit on plans is even less. Everyone else's fault that they can't price for the unexpected, or get customers without pricing cheaper than the cheapest price on LET.

  • @yokowasis said: There is still a possibility Blesta will change into 100% closed source. Maybe it's slim, but it still exists. After all, company can change their TOS to whatever they want, and we can't do shit against it.

    Even if they decided to change the licensing of the open source part, they couldn't do so retroactively. Any part that was open source in the past would remain open source.

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • pphillipspphillips Member, Host Rep

    @angstrom said:

    @yokowasis said: There is still a possibility Blesta will change into 100% closed source. Maybe it's slim, but it still exists. After all, company can change their TOS to whatever they want, and we can't do shit against it.

    Even if they decided to change the licensing of the open source part, they couldn't do so retroactively. Any part that was open source in the past would remain open source.

    I think he means that we may start encoding the source. We released the source largely open for a very good reason, we aren't going to double back on that years later. But yes, anything released as open source under MIT (Blesta uses many open source libraries, and we contribute by creating many open source libraries) would remain so regardless.

    There's a difference between FOSS (Free open source software) and just open source. While Blesta is largely open source, it includes both FOSS libraries, and commercial code that's simply open. But the point remains, we have no intention of encoding anything more than we currently do (3 files for licensing). If we made a change, it would be to not encode anything at all.

    Thanked by 2Blestastore Shoaib_A

    Paul from Blesta.

  • @pphillips said:

    @angstrom said:

    @yokowasis said: There is still a possibility Blesta will change into 100% closed source. Maybe it's slim, but it still exists. After all, company can change their TOS to whatever they want, and we can't do shit against it.

    Even if they decided to change the licensing of the open source part, they couldn't do so retroactively. Any part that was open source in the past would remain open source.

    I think he means that we may start encoding the source. We released the source largely open for a very good reason, we aren't going to double back on that years later. But yes, anything released as open source under MIT (Blesta uses many open source libraries, and we contribute by creating many open source libraries) would remain so regardless.

    There's a difference between FOSS (Free open source software) and just open source. While Blesta is largely open source, it includes both FOSS libraries, and commercial code that's simply open. But the point remains, we have no intention of encoding anything more than we currently do (3 files for licensing). If we made a change, it would be to not encode anything at all.

    Yes, perhaps I misunderstood what exactly he meant.

    I was just reacting to the idea that one can suddenly close software that has already been released under a free license. (And, indeed, the term open source isn't precise enough.)

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • @Unbelievable said:
    I just realized- hosts complain about everyone- every vendor, every ex employee and every customer who dares to submit a ticket or forget to cancel that 3 year old paypal subscription that helped the host buy his beer and steam games. Who do they not complain about?

    @pphillips said:

    @yokowasis said: There is still a possibility Blesta will change into 100% closed source. Maybe it's slim, but it still exists. After all, company can change their TOS to whatever they want, and we can't do shit against it.

    Not going to happen. Not a slim chance, no chance. If you don't have integrity, what do you have? Not much.

    in WHMCS case, a lot of customer.

    Don't get me wrong, I love Blesta. The fact that it is offered by host for free make it even better. I really wish it becomes BIG, as BIG as WMHCS. But then again, I am afraid when it become as big as WHMCS, it will start doing what WHMCS does. Only time will tell, 🀞

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    I'm sure @pphillips means what he says, but the Blesta License does say "This License Agreement may be modified by us at anytime."

    @pphillips said: There's a difference between FOSS (Free open source software) and just open source. While Blesta is largely open source, it includes both FOSS libraries, and commercial code that's simply open.

    I think that applies to Blesta itself - it's open source, but it's not under any kind of FOSS license like MIT, GPL, etc.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • angstromangstrom Member
    edited October 17

    @raindog308 said:
    I'm sure @pphillips means what he says, but the Blesta License does say "This License Agreement may be modified by us at anytime."

    @pphillips said: There's a difference between FOSS (Free open source software) and just open source. While Blesta is largely open source, it includes both FOSS libraries, and commercial code that's simply open.

    I think that applies to Blesta itself - it's open source, but it's not under any kind of FOSS license like MIT, GPL, etc.

    I guess that I spoke too soon: if the "open source" part isn't under some free-software license after all (I had imagined incorrectly that it was), then @yokowasis has a legitimate concern.

    Not that there's anything wrong with that.

    Naturally, I agree that one can choose how to license one's software.

    At the same time, "open source software" in the absence of some free-software license strikes me as more of a marketing ploy ("it sounds good") than as a commitment to free software, but perhaps I've missed something here (again).

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @angstrom said: At the same time, "open source software" in the absence of some free-software license strikes me as more of a marketing ploy ("it sounds good") than as a commitment to free software, but perhaps I've missed something here (again).

    There are reasons to go OSS without going FOSS. Perhaps the software is designed to be easily extensible by the end-user, but not free-as-in-beer.

    There are some industries where you can buy the software or buy the software + source code. Having the code lets you extend it, add your own secret sauce, etc. but doesn't mean you can publish a competing product, share your enhancements, etc.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    When in doubt, sue.

    Think later.

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • @raindog308 said:

    @angstrom said: At the same time, "open source software" in the absence of some free-software license strikes me as more of a marketing ploy ("it sounds good") than as a commitment to free software, but perhaps I've missed something here (again).

    There are reasons to go OSS without going FOSS. Perhaps the software is designed to be easily extensible by the end-user, but not free-as-in-beer.

    I admit that I don't know Blesta enough to know what the practical advantages are of the open source part of Blesta.

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • TimboJonesTimboJones Member
    edited October 18

    @pphillips said:

    @yokowasis said: There is still a possibility Blesta will change into 100% closed source. Maybe it's slim, but it still exists. After all, company can change their TOS to whatever they want, and we can't do shit against it.

    Not going to happen. Not a slim chance, no chance. If you don't have integrity, what do you have? Not much.

    Thanks, Randy Marsh.

    Thanked by 2HyperK9 Blestastore
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