Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Advertise on LowEndTalk.com
How to convince more people to run Tor relays?
New on LowEndTalk? Please Register and read our Community Rules.

How to convince more people to run Tor relays?

Hello,

The Tor network has a problem with too many relays being run by too few people in too few countries. What would be the best way of convincing more people to run their own relays?

«1

Comments

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    You are certainly not going to convince me for sure.

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • Running tor in most countries is waste of time because of internet censorship and such laws

  • jarjar Provider
    edited August 11

    I know relays are safe but I can’t help but feel like I’m in the middle of some serious crime and they’ll eventually find a way to come for me over it.

    You and I both know that there’s nothing “wrong” with TOR and that any access point to the internet is going to be abused by people with bad intent, but I feel like operating any part of that specific network in my country (US) is going to be seen by government entities as enabling the worst behavior on the platform, and that I’ll get no moral support because they’ll frame me as enabling child abuse, etc.

    The desire for self preservation in an unseen future is the overriding one for me. Perhaps others feel the same, and getting through that feeling is the way to success.

  • @jar said:
    I know relays are safe but I can’t help but feel like I’m in the middle of some serious crime and they’ll eventually find a way to come for me over it.

    You and I both know that there’s nothing “wrong” with TOR and that any access point to the internet is going to be abused by people with bad intent, but I feel like operating any part of that specific network in my country (US) is going to be seen by government entities as enabling the worst behavior on the platform, and that I’ll get no moral support because they’ll frame me as enabling child abuse, etc.

    The desire for self preservation in an unseen future is the overriding one for me.

    Exactly this and even using tor browser myself I feel like every website thinks that I am somekind of jerk. I wonder what people use it for as browser fingerprinting can be used to track you always.

    Thanked by 3jar lentro Edmond
  • PUSHR_VictorPUSHR_Victor Member, Provider
    edited August 11

    You can't convince them. I once ran an exit node. It ended up with continuous reports about child pornography. I killed that node and don't want to do anything with TOR since then. Not sure how other exit nodes operators ignore that, but to me it's a no go. Good technologies get abused, and I actually have doubts if TOR is a good thing the way it currently works. With all that abuse, maybe it is more bad than good.

  • cochoncochon Member

    @jar said:
    I feel like operating any part of that specific network in my country (US) is going to be seen by government entities as enabling the worst behavior on the platform

    True, but perversely in the same country, operating a gun shop is NOT widely seen as enabling the worst behavior there, despite the abuse side of that trade being rather obvious.

    Both TOR and guns have very conflicted and polarised arguments for/against. For all the drug dealing and child exploitation, there would have been be no Snowden revelations without TOR (CitizenFour) and advocacy for democracy where there's very little would be greatly diminished.

  • MikeAMikeA Member, Provider

    @jar said:
    I know relays are safe but I can’t help but feel like I’m in the middle of some serious crime and they’ll eventually find a way to come for me over it.

    You and I both know that there’s nothing “wrong” with TOR and that any access point to the internet is going to be abused by people with bad intent, but I feel like operating any part of that specific network in my country (US) is going to be seen by government entities as enabling the worst behavior on the platform, and that I’ll get no moral support because they’ll frame me as enabling child abuse, etc.

    The desire for self preservation in an unseen future is the overriding one for me. Perhaps others feel the same, and getting through that feeling is the way to success.

    There's the stuff about journalists using Tor, but realistically, there are many alternatives to supporting journalists for privacy/censorship that are faster and more reliable. I ran relays for a while, of course they all got blacklisted since they're public, and the traffic over time looked like bot traffic. Instead I'd rather just donate to privacy orgs if I want to feel good.

    Thanked by 3jar mrTom chihcherng

    ExtraVM - AMD Ryzen VPS starting @ $3.50
    USA (TX, VA, FL), CA, FR, UK, SGP, AU

  • lentrolentro Member, Provider

    @MikeA said: journalists using Tor

    Yeah, and the big question to me is: what cost does it come at?

    (How many malicious people would use it for every one good person? I think the ratio is too out-of-balance)

    Thanked by 1chihcherng

    FluidStack: Up to $600 Monthly For Your GPU(s) or Rent Affordable GPU Machines | VC-backed | 2,000+ Machines (aff link)
    ISODME: Web hosting | Managed VPS services | U.S. based support | High Uptime | isodme.com

  • @codelock said:
    Running tor in most countries is waste of time because of internet censorship and such laws

    You don't need to run a relay in your own country. I only run bridges within the UK.

    @PUSHR_Victor said:
    You can't convince them. I once ran an exit node. It ended up with continuous reports about child pornography. I killed that node and don't want to do anything with TOR since then. Not sure how other exit nodes operators ignore that, but to me it's a no go. Good technologies get abused, and I actually have doubts if TOR is a good thing the way it currently works. With all that abuse, maybe it is more bad than good.

    To protect journalists and human rights activitst, you have to allow everyone to use the service as if you made a closed system for selected people, they would be very easy to target.

    @lentro said:

    @MikeA said: journalists using Tor

    Yeah, and the big question to me is: what cost does it come at?

    (How many malicious people would use it for every one good person? I think the ratio is too out-of-balance)

    Couldent you say that about any freedom, What about freedom of speech?

    Thanked by 1that_guy
  • @codelock said:

    @jar said:
    I know relays are safe but I can’t help but feel like I’m in the middle of some serious crime and they’ll eventually find a way to come for me over it.

    You and I both know that there’s nothing “wrong” with TOR and that any access point to the internet is going to be abused by people with bad intent, but I feel like operating any part of that specific network in my country (US) is going to be seen by government entities as enabling the worst behavior on the platform, and that I’ll get no moral support because they’ll frame me as enabling child abuse, etc.

    The desire for self preservation in an unseen future is the overriding one for me.

    Exactly this and even using tor browser myself I feel like every website thinks that I am somekind of jerk. I wonder what people use it for as browser fingerprinting can be used to track you always.

    The Tor browser has features to make you blend in with every other Tor user as the browser is designed for every user to have similar fingerprints as each other.

  • NyrNyr Member

    I did run Tor nodes when I was younger and dumber, both relays and exit. I was running a significant capacity for the time, hundreds of mbps many years ago.

    I stopped doing it because it was too much money spent and trouble for absolutely nothing in return.

    • How to convince me to run relays again? Pay for the servers + bandwidth and I'll maintain them.
    • How to convince me to run an exit again? Difficult after what happened to @William back in the day. I would maybe consider running them anonymously if I had the funding, but again I am not really interested in paying out of my pocket for that.
    Thanked by 2netomx yoursunny
  • .> @Nyr said:

    I did run Tor nodes when I was younger and dumber, both relays and exit. I was running a significant capacity for the time, hundreds of mbps many years ago.

    I stopped doing it because it was too much money spent and trouble for absolutely nothing in return.

    • How to convince me to run relays again? Pay for the servers + bandwidth and I'll maintain them.

    The price of bandwidth is a lot lower than it used to be, for example I have a VPS in Luxembourg that costs less than 5 euros per month and comes with 200Mbits of bandwidth or you could pick up a few smaller VPSs for even cheaper bandwidth (not on Hetzner, OVH or Scaleway).

    • How to convince me to run an exit again? Difficult after what happened to @William back in the day. I would maybe consider running them anonymously if I had the funding, but again I am not really interested in paying out of my pocket for that.

    That is a harder one and one that needs more support from the community but there are cheaper exit allow hosts nowadays.

  • NyrNyr Member

    @MatthewM said: I have a VPS in Luxembourg that costs less than 5 euros per month and comes with 200Mbits of bandwidth

    Can you actually use that bandwidth? For Tor? Do you have enough CPU in the VPS for that? It is not impossible, but I doubt it.

    Bandwidth is of course cheaper, but traffic requirements to run significant capacity for the network are also higher and not many independent ISPs provide lots of cheap bandwidth.

    @MatthewM said: That is a harder one and one that needs more support from the community but there are cheaper exit allow hosts nowadays.

    In my humble opinion, the safest way to run exists is to do so anonymously. Not hard to do but again, an investment into /dev/null. But big respect to the people and organizations maintaining them.

  • @Nyr said:

    @MatthewM said: I have a VPS in Luxembourg that costs less than 5 euros per month and comes with 200Mbits of bandwidth

    Can you actually use that bandwidth? For Tor? Do you have enough CPU in the VPS for that? It is not impossible, but I doubt it.

    Yes I asked them and they said yes to non-exit Tor relays to be able to use this amount of bandwidth and un my Case the CPU is just about able to push 200Mbits of traffic.

    In my humble opinion, the safest way to run exists is to do so anonymously. Not hard to do but again, an investment into /dev/null. But big respect to the people and organizations maintaining them.

    Yea, hosting anonymously is a lot more expensive.

  • NyrNyr Member

    @MatthewM said: Yes I asked them and they said yes to non-exit Tor relays to be able to use this amount of bandwidth and un my Case the CPU is just about able to push 200Mbits of traffic.

    Try to do this and then report back after 3 months. Most likely your ISP will not tolerate 100+ terabytes of traffic per month and the CPU will not be enough to push 200 mbps of Tor traffic. I don't want to be pessimistic, but I think that you are being a bit optimistic here.

    @MatthewM said: Yea, hosting anonymously is a lot more expensive.

    Not really, you don't need to aim for shady "anonymous" providers, just host at normal ISPs and pay anonymously.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    A recent study showed that over 99% of TOR traffic was individuals fighting government censorship in their own country and activists yearning to break the bonds of oppression.

    Whoops, sorry, I misread. Over 99% of it is child porn. I always get those two confused.

    I think for FreeNet the number is 100%.

    @Nyr said: How to convince me to run relays again?

    How about a free T-shirt?

    @Nyr said: How to convince me to run an exit again? Difficult after what happened to @William back in the day.

    Exactly.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • @raindog308 said:
    A recent study showed that over 99% of TOR traffic was individuals fighting government censorship in their own country and activists yearning to break the bonds of oppression.

    Whoops, sorry, I misread. Over 99% of it is child porn. I always get those two confused.

    Link to study?

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    It's simple. I cannot supoort child porn.

    Therefore, I will not run Tor.

    The end of.

    Thanked by 2yoursunny chihcherng

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • @deank said:
    It's simple. I cannot supoort child porn.

    Therefore, I will not run Tor.

    The end of.

    Running a Tor relay does not equal supporting child porn at all. You run a Tor relay to support privacy and anti-censorship.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Sure, sure, whatever you say. All for the great cause while, in reality, it's not.

    Thanked by 1chihcherng

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • @deank said:
    Sure, sure, whatever you say. All for the great cause while, in reality, it's not.

    Do you not like privacy and anti-censorship or are you one of thoes pro-CCP shills?

  • momkinmomkin Member

    For me TOR is for criminals , i always block TOR IPS on my servers because nothing good comes from it except abuses ( child porn - terrorists - Violent )

    I hope TOR ends Soon , so the criminals will be left without a way to hide themselves!

    Thanked by 1chihcherng
  • berkayberkay Member

    I think the reason you or anyone else not being able to convince people is that the most either do not believe in the idea, or do not want the moral implications. This is a lot tougher just then money or anything, and that’s why I think you’re fighting a lost cause. The people who do believe in it is already in the system one way or another, and those who don’t are just staying clear of it. You can’t change that, and probably a little later you’ll realize it too.

    Thanked by 1tetech
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @MatthewM said: Link to study?

    I was making a humorous exaggeration.

    And while I realize it's not the same thing as general TOR use, there was a study that showed that 80% of traffic to TOR hidden services was child-porn related.

    @Nyr said:

    @MatthewM said: Yes I asked them and they said yes to non-exit Tor relays to be able to use this amount of bandwidth and un my Case the CPU is just about able to push 200Mbits of traffic.

    Try to do this and then report back after 3 months.

    I'm thinking perhaps @MatthewM meant 200mbps, not 200Mbps.

    Thanked by 1chihcherng

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    I am hoping he meant 200Mbps. Yeah, he meant 200Mbps.

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • NyrNyr Member

    @raindog308 said: And while I realize it's not the same thing as general TOR use, there was a study that showed that 80% of traffic to TOR hidden services was child-porn related.

    Didn't take a look at the study, but would be interesting to see how those numbers were obtained as one would expect that image and video sites are going to be be abnormally heavier compared to other kinds of sites.

    @raindog308 said: I'm thinking perhaps @MatthewM meant 200mbps, not 200Mbps.

    Still a lot for a small VPS, because Tor relays use a significant amount of CPU, many independent ISPs will be using gigabit ports for their nodes and bandwidth costs would be bigger than what the customer is paying for the VPS anyway.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    The end is nigh.

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • wdmgwdmg Member, Provider

    @momkin said:
    For me TOR is for criminals , i always block TOR IPS on my servers because nothing good comes from it except abuses ( child porn - terrorists - Violent )

    I hope TOR ends Soon , so the criminals will be left without a way to hide themselves!

    This is where I would believe you’re wrong. Tor has many legitimate use cases, and it’s unfortunate that shady actors abuse it with malicious intent.

    Alas, we shouldn’t prevent legitimate use cases (anti-censorship, journalists, etc) from not having a simpler bypass around spying, internet filters/restrictions, etc.

    There’s an unhealthy discrimination against Tor and it’s legitimate users. Let’s face it, even if Tor went away overnight, something would fork and take its place eventually.

    If you preemptively block it, you’re part of the problem.

    Thanked by 1that_guy

    Geek Solutions - Canadian based IT Infrastructure, Transit and Hosting Provider | Shared, Reseller Hosting | VPS | Cloud | Dedicated Servers | IP Transit | Managed Services | LIR Services

  • momkinmomkin Member

    @wdmg said:

    @momkin said:
    For me TOR is for criminals , i always block TOR IPS on my servers because nothing good comes from it except abuses ( child porn - terrorists - Violent )

    I hope TOR ends Soon , so the criminals will be left without a way to hide themselves!

    This is where I would believe you’re wrong. Tor has many legitimate use cases, and it’s unfortunate that shady actors abuse it with malicious intent.

    Alas, we shouldn’t prevent legitimate use cases (anti-censorship, journalists, etc) from not having a simpler bypass around spying, internet filters/restrictions, etc.

    There’s an unhealthy discrimination against Tor and it’s legitimate users. Let’s face it, even if Tor went away overnight, something would fork and take its place eventually.

    If you preemptively block it, you’re part of the problem.

    Yes it has some legitimate use but i believe 20% usage legitimate and the other 80% is only criminals .

    So i prefer the TOR to vanish it makes more damage than good !

    Thanked by 1chihcherng
  • jarjar Provider
    edited August 11

    There's no way to have a free speech platform that isn't abused by those with bad intent. The beautiful and the ugly have to go hand in hand. The ugly doesn't lessen the beauty, but it does make it hard for people to put themselves on the line to back it.

  • momkinmomkin Member

    @jar said:
    There's no way to have a free speech platform that isn't abused by those with bad intent. The beautiful and the ugly have to go hand in hand. The ugly doesn't lessen the beauty, but it does make it hard for people to put themselves on the line to back it.

    Well the gun also has legitimate use but imagine if everyone is free to have gun no license needed or anything what you think is gonna happen ?

    Surely the world will become a Jungle exactly like TOR Jungle !

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    When negative elements overwhelm positives, it fails.

    Those who want to encourage us to deploy more Tor relays, remember that.

    Thanked by 1chihcherng

    There are two things that make Earth spin: Money and PMS.

  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    @momkin said: Well the gun also has legitimate use but imagine if everyone is free to have gun no license needed or anything what you think is gonna happen ?

    Switzerland or Vermont. Man, those places are just horrific war zones...

    Thanked by 3jar Pwner wdmg

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • defaultdefault Member
    edited August 12

    This may seem strange, but I have trust in humanity. I do not think that 80% of worldwide population is comprised of pedophiles. I do not think that even 0.1% of people are pedophiles; and not even 0.0001%. These types of deranged people are few, very few, and out of these very few people with serious mental issues in fantasies, only extremely few are so utterly deranged that they can actually go into actually harming children.

    Now I can't possibly believe that these few people with mental issues count for 80% of Tor network traffic. This either means that Tor is extremely small and unpopular, or it means that humanity has many many people with mental problems.

    I tend to think that just like many love to create fake news on different social networks or websites, it's same corporations and politicians who like to create fake news and fake reasoning, to manipulate the masses and slowly take control over internet (GFW, Russia's firewall, Germany's trojan in OS, Trump's monitoring law, secret agencies mirroring data centres traffic - OR - Google psychological profiles, Facebook with Cambridge Analytica, Cloudflare hosting many websites, and examples may continue).

    We need to fight for our privacy, and we need to trust one another. "In times of crisis, the wise build bridges, while the foolish build walls." (nigerian proverb)

    Meanwhile, the few pedophiles out there should urgently seek medical assistance in my opinion. Anyone searching for child porn online (with or without Tor) needs to seek psychological assistance, because there is no shame in seeking professional help. Nobody's perfect, but everyone can become better with modern medicine, as body and mind deteriorate through time, becoming older.

    Thanked by 2wdmg that_guy

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • jarjar Provider

    @default said: Now I can't possibly believe that these few people with mental issues count for 80% of Tor network traffic

    I could believe it if framed right. Like the average person who needs it for safety only using it for sensitive traffic, and those people using it daily. A journalist might need to send a message once a month, a creep might be living on the network. Just theory though, hard to really know.

    Thanked by 2kkrajk chihcherng
  • momkinmomkin Member

    @default said:
    This may seem strange, but I have trust in humanity. I do not think that 80% of worldwide population is comprised of pedophiles. I do not think that even 0.1% of people are pedophiles; and not even 0.0001%. These types of deranged people are few, very few, and out of these very few people with serious mental issues in fantasies, only extremely few are so utterly deranged that they can actually go into actually harming children.

    Tor network doesn't only host pedophiles they host criminals in all kind pedophiles - Drug sellers - killers - Arms sellers ... and much more !

    The truth is if you run Tor relays you are helping the criminals of all kind .
    sure you can help one man to speak freely but you are also helping 10 other criminals do they dirty work .

    So what you will gain ?

    Thanked by 1chihcherng
  • On a serious note,

    If you want to convince someone to run tor relay,

    Maybe compile a list of host that allow that what is minimum cost that can get running one etc,...

    I know there is a list on torproject site but seems outdated and doesn't mention price or specs

    Thanked by 2lokuzard that_guy
  • @momkin said:

    Drug sellers - killers - Arms sellers ... and much more !

    and how can you trust a killer not to run away with your money?
    With drugs I understand trust can be built gradually, but with killers?!

  • jadenjaden Member

    @momkin said:
    The truth is if you run Tor relays you are helping the criminals of all kind .
    sure you can help one man to speak freely but you are also helping 10 other criminals do they dirty work .

    What are you basing those numbers on? How do you know you're not helping 9 people to speak freely and only 1 criminal? Criminals might use more bandwidth than journalists and those using it for safety for sensitive traffic.

  • Adam1Adam1 Member

    @jaden said: The truth is if you run Tor relays you are helping the criminals of all kind .

    If you run a bank, you're helping criminals
    if you run a casino, you're helping criminals
    if you run a restaurant, you're feeding criminals
    if you pay taxes, you're funding the killing of others

    blah blah blah

    tor can and is used for good, and thats its intended purpose. If it didnt exist, crims would just use other technologies, but those that wan tto do good and remain anonymous, may well struggle to get their voice heard, that bit more.

  • @momkin said:
    Drug sellers - killers - Arms sellers ... and much more !

    The truth is if you run Tor relays you are helping the criminals of all kind .
    sure you can help one man to speak freely but you are also helping 10 other criminals do they dirty work .

    So what you will gain ?

    You do realize that they can very well use IRC for example, or some other obscure method of communication like steganography or whatever. Let's not assume that for every 1 innocent person looking for privacy, there are other 10 criminals communicating on how to kill or drug that 1 innocent. Society would not be evolved as it is, if we were that evil, because with such thinking we should have all been destroyed long ago.

    What I gain: helping privacy evolve, and not helping corporations and politicians take control. I love freedom of speech, because it supports intelligence and different ways of thinking.

    Thanked by 1that_guy

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • tetechtetech Member

    As others have said, many things in society have a negative impact. Smoking kills people and in countries with socialized medicine costs the taxpayer way more than any tax revenue. Gambling has social consequences. Guns, drugs, DUI, mobile phone use while driving, riding a bicycle without a helmet... all sorts of things we could get sidetracked into.

    In each case there is some type of balance between personal freedoms and the good of others in the community, and there is some type of accountability - sure, it can be argued that balance is off in some cases, but none of these things is totally uncontrolled. Sometimes they are balanced by laws, sometimes it is by community pressure/pubic shame, fear of economic loss, or whatever. The issue with Tor is that there's no rational discussion about where the balance lies.

    Advocates can indeed say that "in order to protect individuals and have freedom of speech anyone must be able to do anything", but in so doing they are already deciding for themselves where the balance lies - that the concerns of one group (e.g. journalists) will be considered and another (e.g. abuse victims) will be essentially ignored. People who disagree with that philosophically-driven balance will not want to participate, end of story.

    Thanked by 1chihcherng
  • vimalwarevimalware Member
    edited August 12

    What sort of cpu requirements would running a relay entail? VPS: Single shared E5 cpu with 5TB transfer .
    If I cap it to 20mbit, what sort of load-avg would I be seeing?

  • DataIdeas-JoshDataIdeas-Josh Member, Provider
    edited August 12

    @MatthewM opened up a can of worms with this post.
    Tor traffic is not much different than VPN traffic. Just the layer of trust moves to someone you don't know. Rather than over VPNs.
    Both systems can be used for good and evil.

    Now to answer @MatthewM question. It is really up to the providers that allow said traffic on the network rather than people running the nodes.

    Alien Data: VPS and Colo Based In Texas, Unmetered Bandwidth.
    RPIServers: Dedicated Micro Servers. Unmeterd Bandwidth

  • asasdasasd Member

    @MatthewM: I remember the State of the Onion talks from 2014 and 2015 convinced me:
    State of the Onion (2014)
    State of the Onion (2015)
    Christopher Soghoian's talk at DEFCON 22 is also relevant.
    The good/bad/tradeoff arguments has are nearly the same as they were/are for encryption.

    @vimalware said: If I cap it to 20mbit, what sort of CPU load-avg would I be seeing?

    CPU usage would be negligible at 20 Mbits/s.

    @AlienData_Josh said: It is really up to the providers that allow said traffic on the network

    I don't think that's a question for any provider with open peering policy. However most providers here aim to be content providers, not traffic providers.

    Thanked by 2vimalware that_guy
  • @codelock said:
    On a serious note,

    If you want to convince someone to run tor relay,

    Maybe compile a list of host that allow that what is minimum cost that can get running one etc,...

    I know there is a list on torproject site but seems outdated and doesn't mention price or specs

    I already did so... https://worldofmatthew.com/post/tor-relay-webhosts-list/

    Thanked by 2lokuzard that_guy
  • The problem with Tor in general is not the computing resources, but the bandwidth. The more bandwidth, the better; sky is the limit.

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • wdmgwdmg Member, Provider

    @momkin said:

    @wdmg said:

    @momkin said:
    For me TOR is for criminals , i always block TOR IPS on my servers because nothing good comes from it except abuses ( child porn - terrorists - Violent )

    I hope TOR ends Soon , so the criminals will be left without a way to hide themselves!

    This is where I would believe you’re wrong. Tor has many legitimate use cases, and it’s unfortunate that shady actors abuse it with malicious intent.

    Alas, we shouldn’t prevent legitimate use cases (anti-censorship, journalists, etc) from not having a simpler bypass around spying, internet filters/restrictions, etc.

    There’s an unhealthy discrimination against Tor and it’s legitimate users. Let’s face it, even if Tor went away overnight, something would fork and take its place eventually.

    If you preemptively block it, you’re part of the problem.

    Yes it has some legitimate use but i believe 20% usage legitimate and the other 80% is only criminals .

    So i prefer the TOR to vanish it makes more damage than good !

    If you can’t value it’s existence to help disrupt censorship, spying/tracing, etc... then you should do some proper research and find out that lots of people use it legitimate.

    If you bought a bag of apples and there was 5 out of 20 apples bad, would you throw the entire bag away because it was “criminal” to have that many bad apples?

    Geek Solutions - Canadian based IT Infrastructure, Transit and Hosting Provider | Shared, Reseller Hosting | VPS | Cloud | Dedicated Servers | IP Transit | Managed Services | LIR Services

  • wdmgwdmg Member, Provider

    @jar said:

    @default said: Now I can't possibly believe that these few people with mental issues count for 80% of Tor network traffic

    I could believe it if framed right. Like the average person who needs it for safety only using it for sensitive traffic, and those people using it daily. A journalist might need to send a message once a month, a creep might be living on the network. Just theory though, hard to really know.

    That’s the beauty in data, it’s all about how you represent the numbers... what seems worse?

    10% of ALL gun owners have thought about shooting a wall.

    10,000,000 of ALL gun owners have thought about shooting a wall.

    There’s many ways to manipulate the data itself, but the point being that if someone seeks the know the data itself behind the reported number, do the research and find the true number... companies and governments that don’t release the underlying data are the real problem.

    Geek Solutions - Canadian based IT Infrastructure, Transit and Hosting Provider | Shared, Reseller Hosting | VPS | Cloud | Dedicated Servers | IP Transit | Managed Services | LIR Services

Sign In or Register to comment.