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Do NOT use online.net

Hi,

This is my review about online.net.

Earlier this morning my server got randomly shutdown. I noticed it by receiving an email from my monitoring. Anyway, I checked their control panel and see that the server is "locked". I instantly call their support and they say it's an hardware issue and the server is locked so I don't do any further damage. This was at 10:30am.

For reference, I have the business support plan, means 24/24 phone support, 20 min ticket reply time, and 1hr intervention.

Anyway, I thought I hit a broken disk or something and expected the server to be running 1-2hrs later. But nothing. I checked their Help Desk and see that their "Hardware Watch" is supposed to send me an SMS when they intervene, but I never got something. No email, no SMS, nothing.

As of now, 6pm the server is still offline.

I have contacted them over the ticket and get replies such as

"We will come back to you as soon as we have more information."

Why have I purchased the business support? My server is now randomly offline since 8 hours when there wasn't even a single issue with it.

Additionally, I received:

"If we had stocks on this specific server we would have had replaced it completely with a new one for you to do a fresh install and be able to start your production again, but we sadly do not. "

HELLO? Why am I running my server even in raid??? Am I now losing all my data? Ok, next time I will just do Raid 0 because it doesn't matter anyway.

So I moved on their Slack server and asked if I could get my Disks moved into a new server, where they replied:

"Each model has their own set of hardware which is static. We can't move hardware from a model to another or we will have inconsistencies"

OK. I understand. So I asked to move my disks into a server spec that has same disks offered as mine, so there is no inconsistencies. But no, they are not going to do it.

I guess do not use online.net for production systems, it is a waste of time and will only cost you money.

Comments

  • PHDanPHDan Member

    Raid is not backup.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Raid is never backup.

    I have not created a single thread. Verify it if you dare.

  • Which server model are you running @throwaccount131 ?

  • ViridWebViridWeb Member, Provider
    edited June 30

    Raid is not backup.
    But you can replace disk and resync new disk after replacement. But it's always recommend to make backup even if provider provide you free backups.

    Btw, did you really paid for their business support!? Lol :lol:

    ViridWeb.com - cPanel Web Hosting | Litespeed + SSH Access + Free Backups + Free Transfers.
    CIN: U72900WB2018OPC226882 | GST: 19AAGCV4976R1Z4

  • edited June 30

    @ManofServer said:
    Which server model are you running @throwaccount131 ?

    Core-3-L-SSD - monthly bill with all extras is 333€

    And regarding the disk change, they are not doing anything, my support ticket gets left on read like im talking to girls on insta lol

  • fLoofLoo Member
    edited June 30

    @throwaccount131 said:

    @ManofServer said:
    Which server model are you running @throwaccount131 ?

    Core-3-L-SSD - monthly bill with all extras is 333€

    Better go for Hetzner.

    AX161
    32 Core / 64 Threads
    256 GB Ram
    3x NVMe (3x 1TB)

    245 € (incl. 19% VAT) (FSN)
    233 € (incl. 19% VAT) (HEL)

    Superb support is already included!

    Thanked by 2ViridWeb angelius
  • To me the ideal in this situation with 1 hour intervention the goal to me would be to have a operational server within an additional hour for a 2 hour turn around. Then recover from a backup.

    I don't know much about how long it takes to identify a hardware failure so I'm not sure how realistic such a request would be. But the faster I could get an server operational the better.

    I'm just messing around with server technology for fun because kubernetes sounded fun. So some DNS round robin and multiple copies and slaves to keep things operational in some capacity.

    I figure this is exactly the reason for the industry shift towards kubernetes. Expect failure and have redundancy which can recover from disaster.

    Honestly almost every complaint I see on this forum and to boil down to not having a backup. I completely understand why providers are providing free backups. But once more competent people say "if you don't test your backups regularly don't consider them as backups" so even that isn't failsafe.

    Thanked by 1coolice
  • raindog308raindog308 Moderator

    Hey guys - is raid backup?

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • pbxpbx Member

    Seems like with online.net RAID is interesting if one of your disk dies. If the problem comes from mobo / CPU / whatever they'll replace the server and they won't switch your disks to the new one (it's all automated, they probably want to save on labor as much as possible).

  • Its always best to have your own backup elsewhere, just to be on the safe side. Seen so many issues with people not having their own backups and losing their data.

  • AidanAidan Member

    @raindog308 said: Hey guys - is raid backup?

    Only if it's raid 0.

  • raindog308raindog308 Moderator
    edited June 30

    @Aidan said: Only if it's raid 0.

    The 0 means "zero possible failures".

    Pretty scary that some people use RAID 5 or even 6.

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • PwnerPwner Member

    @raindog308 said:

    @Aidan said: Only if it's raid 0.

    The 0 means "zero possible failures".

    Pretty scary that some people use RAID 5 or even 6.

    Yeah what a waste of hard drives, they could just use those for backups instead of pretending like RAID keeps their systems up and running or increases performance.

  • thagoatthagoat Member

    @raindog308 said: RAID 5 or even 6.

    Have you heard the good news? There's RAID 10 now!

    Thanked by 1raindog308

    Covfefe: Ask your senators and congressmen to impeach today!

  • XsltelXsltel Member, Provider
    edited June 30

    10 years ago I learned RAID is a marketing gimmick ;)

    Xsltel OU | A One-man show powered by 250 grams of brain
    Offering reliable hosting services, Server management since 2011 and free cPanel hosting since 2020

  • defaultdefault Member

    @thagoat said:

    @raindog308 said: RAID 5 or even 6.

    Have you heard the good news? There's RAID 10 now!

    Fastmako (aff) - great VPS for your needs.

  • @thagoat said:

    @raindog308 said: RAID 5 or even 6.

    Have you heard the good news? There's RAID 10 now!

    No, that's bad, it means "10 possible failures". The worst is RAID 100, so much failing! Avoid!

    Thanked by 2thagoat raindog308
  • jarjar Provider
    edited June 30

    Online.net decided to jump on the bandwagon of appearing to be a premium service while still only offering the same level of service they were at budget pricing.

    And while RAID may not be a backup, the whole purpose is not to take down your server if a drive fails. If it was a drive failure, and they took it down and won't fix it or let you access it, they're trash. Plain and simple.

    Nothing we didn't already know though.

  • somiksomik Member

    @deank said:
    Raid is never backup.

    I learned this the hard way then I realized that a motherboard built-in raid controller fail can screw up your data even if you still have it on the drive.

    Now I just run snapshots of my VMs to seperate drive, then backup the data from that drive to a portable drive. Atleast 1 of the 3 backups will be ok.

    Don't be so serious. It's just a forum. No one cares what you think anyway.

  • DrFallenDrFallen Member, Provider

    @TimboJones said:

    @thagoat said:

    @raindog308 said: RAID 5 or even 6.

    Have you heard the good news? There's RAID 10 now!

    No, that's bad, it means "10 possible failures". The worst is RAID 100, so much failing! Avoid!

    Nah you're crazy dude it's 1+0 so it's a failure but not a failure within a failure state.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • pbxpbx Member

    @somik said: I learned this the hard way then I realized that a motherboard built-in raid controller fail can screw up your data even if you still have it on the drive.

    That's where software RAID shines.

  • vpsGODvpsGOD Member, Provider

    before year : for a hadware issue such you faced. i got call from them explaining the issue and they explained how it can be resolved. very friendly

    but in last few months i see they were slow to fix issue after first reply(maybe as i dont have business support now).
    even a ipmi reset(server online and working) few days back they taken a day. the bad think is after reseting ipmi they put server in rescue mode in non working hour.

    vpsgod.com : Shared | Reseller | VPS | RDP | Dedi | VPS Reseller

    $16/yr VPS- ovz7 NL| 256MB RAM

  • rcy026rcy026 Member

    @pbx said:

    @somik said: I learned this the hard way then I realized that a motherboard built-in raid controller fail can screw up your data even if you still have it on the drive.

    That's where software RAID shines.

    Usually, yes, but software has bugs and even software raids can screw up and destroy data. Been there, done that.

    Thanked by 1pbx
  • After 24 hours the server is available again, however the replies from the support are very vague:

    Hello,

    Hardware has been fixed. Your server is now up in rescue mode, you can reboot it on your OS.

    Issue came from our side on our infrastructure impacting your server. We appologise about this.

    I asked:

    What exactly was the issue now with my server? If the issue came from your side, what is with your offered SLA?

    They replied:

    No need to explain the issue exactly. It came from our infrastructure and that issue impacted your server.

    I replied:

    We want some additional information on why the server was over 24hrs offline.

    We see that that YOU caused the server to shutdown initially:

    Jun 30 10:14:05 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: Power key pressed.
    Jun 30 10:14:05 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: Powering Off...
    Jun 30 10:14:06 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: System is powering down.

    They replied:

    That's true concerning the power off.

    But like I said, there won't be any more informations. Hardware issue was on our infrastructure, details cannot be shared

    So yes, not only was the issue on their side, they also do not disclose the issue nor do they reply on the SLA question.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • ViridWebViridWeb Member, Provider

    @throwaccount131 said:
    After 24 hours the server is available again, however the replies from the support are very vague:

    Hello,

    Hardware has been fixed. Your server is now up in rescue mode, you can reboot it on your OS.

    Issue came from our side on our infrastructure impacting your server. We appologise about this.

    I asked:

    What exactly was the issue now with my server? If the issue came from your side, what is with your offered SLA?

    They replied:

    No need to explain the issue exactly. It came from our infrastructure and that issue impacted your server.

    I replied:

    We want some additional information on why the server was over 24hrs offline.

    We see that that YOU caused the server to shutdown initially:

    Jun 30 10:14:05 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: Power key pressed.
    Jun 30 10:14:05 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: Powering Off...
    Jun 30 10:14:06 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: System is powering down.

    They replied:

    That's true concerning the power off.

    But like I said, there won't be any more informations. Hardware issue was on our infrastructure, details cannot be shared

    So yes, not only was the issue on their side, they also do not disclose the issue nor do they reply on the SLA question.

    You are paying for that SLA and business support right?

    Then ask them again and again. Until they reply some positive.

    And don't forget to move your project from their server to another provider and make regular backups as well

    ViridWeb.com - cPanel Web Hosting | Litespeed + SSH Access + Free Backups + Free Transfers.
    CIN: U72900WB2018OPC226882 | GST: 19AAGCV4976R1Z4

  • @ViridWeb

    Yes, we are paying 35€ per month for the business support, which promises 99.95% SLA.

    I have already moved everything off the server, this is more as a warning to other online.net/scaleway customers.

  • Shot2Shot2 Member
    edited July 1

    @throwaccount131 said:
    So yes, not only was the issue on their side, they also do not disclose the issue nor do they reply on the SLA question.

    Just leave. Considering your expenses and their behaviour, you'll definitely find better service at a better price somewhere else. After a decade of using them for hobby stuff, I still would never entrust Online/Scaleway with any "serious project", especially at such a price...

    (Oh and make sure you make some public noise on their social network stuff - their so-called CEO and CTO on twitter are "a_bermingham" & "mmarcha")

    Providing less than /64 means "we are clueless about IPv6". My geekbench results. I haz BuyVM, OneProv, Servarica, Veesp.

  • CConnerCConner Member, Provider

    @throwaccount131 said:
    After 24 hours the server is available again, however the replies from the support are very vague:

    Hello,

    Hardware has been fixed. Your server is now up in rescue mode, you can reboot it on your OS.

    Issue came from our side on our infrastructure impacting your server. We appologise about this.

    I asked:

    What exactly was the issue now with my server? If the issue came from your side, what is with your offered SLA?

    They replied:

    No need to explain the issue exactly. It came from our infrastructure and that issue impacted your server.

    I replied:

    We want some additional information on why the server was over 24hrs offline.

    We see that that YOU caused the server to shutdown initially:

    Jun 30 10:14:05 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: Power key pressed.
    Jun 30 10:14:05 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: Powering Off...
    Jun 30 10:14:06 sd-81663 systemd-logind[941]: System is powering down.

    They replied:

    That's true concerning the power off.

    But like I said, there won't be any more informations. Hardware issue was on our infrastructure, details cannot be shared

    So yes, not only was the issue on their side, they also do not disclose the issue nor do they reply on the SLA question.

    Just leave and find another provider. This says enough.

    GameDash, an AIO solution uniting billing, support & game server management platform.
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  • LTnigerLTniger Member
    edited July 1

    Who use soft raid when there is zfs?

    hostWP.net - Wordpress Hosting Platform.

  • doghouchdoghouch Member

    @Louis_SwitchMyServer said:
    Its always best to have your own backup elsewhere, just to be on the safe side. Seen so many issues with people not having their own backups and losing their data.

    Your logo (profile picture) is the lowest resolution image I’ve ever seen on this forum.

  • angeliusangelius Member
    edited July 1

    Online.net and scaleway are for running attack or sending spam or torrenting ... Not for production because the support is really bad (but not as bad as OVH support), nearly as bad as their bandwidth outside of France.

    Just move to hetzner and enjoy :)

  • jarjar Provider

    @LTniger said:
    Who use soft raid when there is zfs?

    People who like having available memory :joy:

    Though I never really tried to tweak it much admittedly, might look better with tweaking.

    Thanked by 1webcraft
  • @doghouch said:
    Your logo (profile picture) is the lowest resolution image I’ve ever seen on this forum.

    Yes, does look a bit poor on here actually.

  • that_guythat_guy Member

    @throwaccount131 said:
    Yes, we are paying 35€ per month for the business support, which promises 99.95% SLA.

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/EwAL7dFEUtw?start=94&end=103&version=3

    Don't forget to like, subscribe, and comment below.
    "they just simply can't trace me down on internet because I'm using Linux." Mr_indescribable

  • comXyzcomXyz Member

    I stopped using Online.net for production few years already.
    NIC dead, I asked them to replace the NIC.
    "No, you will need to reinstall everything on a new server."

  • vimalwarevimalware Member

    @jar said:

    @LTniger said:
    Who use soft raid when there is zfs?

    People who like having available memory :joy:

    Though I never really tried to tweak it much admittedly, might look better with tweaking.

    You are a vi edit+ an initramfs rebuild + a reboot away from a 4GB ARC.
    I can hardly tell my 2xHDD E3 is running on spinning rust. (just kidding, but it's running good for 3.5 yrs ; 3 proxmox major upgrades included)

    Thanked by 1jar

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  • @comXyz said:
    I stopped using Online.net for production few years already.
    NIC dead, I asked them to replace the NIC.
    "No, you will need to reinstall everything on a new server."

    I'm assuming they were using built in Ethernet and don't have any available slots to put a new NIC.

  • comXyzcomXyz Member

    @TimboJones said:

    @comXyz said:
    I stopped using Online.net for production few years already.
    NIC dead, I asked them to replace the NIC.
    "No, you will need to reinstall everything on a new server."

    I'm assuming they were using built in Ethernet and don't have any available slots to put a new NIC.

    Take the disks to a new server, it's done

  • @Xsltel said:
    10 years ago I learned RAID is a marketing gimmick ;)

    Raid is not disaster recovery but what it is.
    Is a Hard drive failure recover in place toool.
    It's good for if a drive fails then you can keep operating and swap out the bad drive as a hot swap.

    So imo if it's a production server you need a backups and to do raid. Raid 10,5,1 etc something where if a single or more drives fail then you can keep operating and swap that baby out.

    This is the singular purpose....

    Not counting the game drives of 10 wd blacks or raptors......lol.

  • XsltelXsltel Member, Provider

    @TheInvisibleOne said: So imo if it's a production server you need a backups and to do raid. Raid 10,5,1 etc something where if a single or more drives fail then you can keep operating and swap that baby out.

    my approach is a bit different I prefer to set smart monitoring tools and act before my drives fail. along with offsite backups.

    RAID controllers can fail (a funny thing I'm not aware of raid controllers monitoring tools), software RAID uses extra CPU for syncing especially in large arrays. I still think its a marketing gimmick or a luck tool for a lazy sysadmin who knows nothing about proactive monitoring !!

    Xsltel OU | A One-man show powered by 250 grams of brain
    Offering reliable hosting services, Server management since 2011 and free cPanel hosting since 2020

  • @Xsltel said:

    @TheInvisibleOne said: So imo if it's a production server you need a backups and to do raid. Raid 10,5,1 etc something where if a single or more drives fail then you can keep operating and swap that baby out.

    my approach is a bit different I prefer to set smart monitoring tools and act before my drives fail. along with offsite backups.

    RAID controllers can fail (a funny thing I'm not aware of raid controllers monitoring tools), software RAID uses extra CPU for syncing especially in large arrays. I still think its a marketing gimmick or a luck tool for a lazy sysadmin who knows nothing about proactive monitoring !!

    There are times where a drive can spontaneously fail. There’s a reason why large businesses and many corporations still use raid.

    The reality is you can not expect nor act proactively on all drive failures as at any time you can have random failures.

    Raid is not a lazy sysadmin tool cause they aren’t proactively monitoring Their drives. Many corporations replace drives before they fail.

    A poor sysadmin will have no raid and think only proactive monitoring will be enough for a random drive failure when there is no indicators.

    When keeping data intact, active and functioning is required you use raid so even random drive failures that aren’t able to be predicted do not harm the buisness

  • @jar said:
    Online.net decided to jump on the bandwagon of appearing to be a premium service while still only offering the same level of service they were at budget pricing.

    And while RAID may not be a backup, the whole purpose is not to take down your server if a drive fails. If it was a drive failure, and they took it down and won't fix it or let you access it, they're trash. Plain and simple.

    Nothing we didn't already know though.

    I made the mistake of uploading 3TB of data to C14 and setting lifecycle rules to archive it only to find they can't actually archive it in the the timeframe they specify and there's a hidden FUP which limits the number of objects per day that get archived to the cold storage.

    I did actually manage to get a credit out of them for the unexpected time in hot storage.
    But when it first came out of beta the C14 cold storage was nowhere near fit for purpose.

    Only reason the data is still on it is I can't be bothered to move it at the moment.

    Oh and any API keys you generate for object storage have FULL control of your account.

    If you have a choice between online's object storage and backblaze/wasabi take the latter as either of them will likely lead to a better experience.

    Thanked by 1jar
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