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Question for you low end providers who advertise on here...
I just remembered why I never advertised on LEB after the first time I attempted it back in 2009... a huge portion of the new clients that get referred from here are abusers. I'm not saying the regulars on this forum are, but LEB is definitely a big resource for people looking to do something shady.
In the last year, I've only suspended 3 people for breaking the terms of service... but after posting a thread in the offers forum here a few days ago, I've had to suspend 8 new clients within 24 hours of service. The majority of them thinking they can tunnel their torrent traffic through my nodes and I won't notice.
Anyway, what percentage of your new orders do you end up having to suspend within the first month of service? I'm wondering if I'm just lucky or if this is standard for offers here.
Comments
We don't allow everyone and their dog to signup with us so that keeps the abusers down to a very controlled amount.
What I do know, though, is that there is a few spammers that feed off the LEB RSS and will buy a VM off most every company. One of the groups that we had a run in actually bought it just to do recon on:
For a chuckle, they had some very harsh comments about @Aldryic in their database about us before we ganked them a 2nd time >_>
Francisco
Most of the abusers we encounter don't even use our LEB promotions so we're quite the opposite.
I really wished if i can lease @Aldryic for my Fraud Protection.. :P
WHMCS > Fraud Protection >
GeoFilter is the best anti-fraud plugin I've ever used for WHMCS (a whole lot cheaper than MaxMind + phone verification). Once we installed it the amount of fraud orders dropped to 0, we disabled it for a month due to a very rare but very annoying bug and the fraud orders spiked so we enabled it again.
My problem isn't fraud really, it's people who are legit and think they can do whatever they want on their vps. It's been a really long time since an actual "fraud" order made it through.
+1.
Its time we hire a VpsNanny to babysit users
When leb grows and more unexperienced users read here and notices the cheap prices.
You will end up with alot of newbies (like me) who doesnt know more then what they read in the howto setup a vpn service.
In my eyes there are two types of abusers that you speak about; the ones who don't realize/know the effects on the node when doing their business, and then its the ones who doesnt care, at all...
Spammers are my plague, as already told by joe they often order our bigger vm.... Do you wait the first spam report / complaint to suspend or do you use some proactive network screening?
When it comes to email spam, I normally just wait until a complaint comes in and then it's immediate termination. I also subscribe to some IP blacklist sites and will ban people if they end up on one of them. For other things like tunneling torrent traffic, I have a few scripts that actively monitor things and notify me by email if something is triggered.
For spam we do not actively monitor for it since we have a lot of legal "spammers". When we get a complaint from our datacenter we shutdown the VPS (they can boot it from SolusVM when at any time) and give the user a warning depending on the severity of it (i.e. how many blacklists they managed to get on before we were notified). If they resolve the problem and get the IPs de-listed then all is good.
It's already partially written for our the next revision of stallion
A few weeks ago one of our server was used by one of the rokso guy, we realized it only when we received the first report less than 48/H after the server was delivered...
A few of the requests we've received have been legit (upper-end shared hosting clients with dedicated IPs, IRC users, opt-in mailing lists), but we've mostly found that when someone signs up, then opens a support ticket to immediately request RDNS, we're probably going to have spam issues.
To this end, we usually wait a few days before processing their RDNS... most of the time they get suspended and we don't even bother
Same here!
So, if a customer is hosting a very critical page / blog on one of your servers it is enough, when I send a abuse to you all and you will shut down his servers?
Sorry, but I hate such providers. The best way I think should be: If you got a abuse notice, talk to the customer, than close his mailport, etc and so on...
There are much better solutions for very critical page / blog than couple-dollar VPS.
When we first started, we tried talking to the customer, but more often than not, we would never receive a response. Or receive a response days later. We can't have bad things happening for days on end.
If it's really a very critical page / blog, then the customer will have monitoring on it, and will be notified immediately.
Indeed. A LEB is good for a blog but not for critical stuff. However, I wouldnt want my blog to be taken down by someone pissed i deleted his comments as simple as sending an abuse note.
Some many years ago I was hosting a legal game server (PHP OS that I was a developper myself for) on my home connection and we were in a critical phase of an international team final. Some loser (literally) sent a takedown notice pretending he owns the rights for the game (which was GPL) and asked the provider to take me down. It was shortly after DMCA passed and all providers were scared to death, so nobody investigated, I was sent a mail to my domain I was hosting on same home connection (only one at that time) and terminated without any other warnings and stuff. Took me 3 days of going in person to prove them that not only the game was GPL, but also I was an important developer and tester, forking my own version. At first they told me I need a court order to be reinstated, then that they dont want any trouble. I had to get another provider, which took 1 week to install and had a higher international latency. Of course, I offloaded the files and database to a hosting company in the meantime, the loser struck again and I was suspended again, but only for 24 hours untill they read my reply and looked into it.
If ppl dont want trouble, they shouldnt be in the business. If you advertise a low cost solution, need to weight the potential benefits you remain with after the initial wave of abusers go away. Yes, will be a few full days, but if you offer a good and competitive service, there will be some ppl left. The price is right, otherwise, advertising here is free
M
@Damian
But which? Sorry, when students have no hundret dollars for taking some dedicated servers on big providers...
@Maounique
But why you? You haven't done anything wrong. I think it would be much better, when the others need a court order to take down anything (PRQ is a hoster that doesn't do anything without a court order)
EDIT: But it isn't always as you seem to handle it. Edis (but only on their own dc) is a good provider for freedom of speech, LusoVPS also said that Freedom of Speech is protected, and there are some other who also handle this stuff good
It was shortly after DMCA passed, it wasnt understood, it wasnt clear where it applies, not all providers have extensive legal departments.
They acted as LEB providers here, if there is a complaint we shut down because we dont want trouble, even more, we dont allow services that could generate complaints since we dont have the means to deal with those, nor the desire to host "troublemakers".
M
Out of curiosity, do you intentionally go out of your way to insult contributing members of the community?
Back on topic, it sounds like you chose inexperienced hosts. There were methods of issuing legal takedown notices before the DMCA passed through... any provider that actually panicked over having a DMCA hit their abuse@ apparently never dealt with abuse claims before.
Indeed, it was the early days but it could be relevant today for ppl new in this area.
I dont insult anyone, it looks like that is the case from the input I had in another thread. LEB providers cant be bothered to handle complaints or forward them, they dont have the means for that since the profit margin is that low and they prefer to rule out services perceived to have the potential of generating that kind of complaints (if that is true or not, is another discussion), to use the advertised resources or which pose problems for their beliefs.
That is nothing else than what they said, sumarized, your contributions included.
M
I love how you make a claim like this with -nothing- to back it up. One of my primary roles is handling abuse complaints. @KuJoe , @miTgiB , do you guys just 'ignore' your abuse@ emails as well?
Again, you might want to actually check with providers before making claims without backing data.
Now, I realize that some of your opinions are quite possibly based from having services with providers like 123S and Alien, where clients tend to be swept under the rug. Or the other providers that massively overprovision and cannot actually offer the resources they advertise. I ask that you keep in mind that most of us here actually strive to provide quality service, and I'm not the only one that believes 'you get what you pay for' is a load of BS. When you baselessly group all providers based on the faults of a few, you're insulting those of us that work hard to deliver quality rather than just try to make a quick buck.
Please just let that nonsense die. @Aaron represented Tor far better in a single post, while all you did was try to scream your own opinions without actually listening to anyone else. If you wish to believe those silly things about why providers have rules, that's fine; but we've had enough of it being drug around in here.
You're obviously capable of civility, and you've shown a decent compliment of technical know-how in other threads. We would must prefer valuing your input to the community rather than cringe every time we see your name in a thread, having to brace ourselves for an argument that's just as irritating as discussing religion.
HAH. Fran has sole rights, but I appreciate the vote of confidence
I close outbound port 25 on the 1st report, no need to wait 2-3 days for a customer to read their email, or let a real spammer get off 200k more emails. No need to cancel their service, without port 25 access, spammers will not renew, someone caught on a one off abuse report will know it is very important to be on the ball as any admin should be, waiting days as this is your hobby is no longer valid.
@miTgiB: Closing Port 25 is absolutely okay, as long as you will not suspend the vps on a abuse everything is fine
This is what I also do.
What hurt me is that often spammers came, pay one month of service, in a few days make the IP assigned blacklisted (or a whole subnet) than they go and we have to delist our IP from several blacklists lossing time and money
@Aldryic Some nothings to back up some of my claims: their own declarations, yours included:
As @miTgiB said, in an ideal world that would be perfect but in the real world it is far from the truth. The real world doesn't work the same as it does online, it's a sad truth people fail to realize until they start losing money out of their pockets.
M
But the satisfaction of them losing their chargeback request is preceless
This is the rokso guy that used our services:
http://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/listing.lasso?file=1113
The only satisfaction I was looking for is unmentionable...
tl;dr
Get off your soapbox already, if what we have to offer doesn't meet your standards, don't buy it, but reading your ideas just makes my brain hurt as you are so out of touch with the majority. Your views are yours, and you have a right to feel that way, but how long are you going to beat this dead horse? @Aldryic hit the nail on the head, you are like a religious zealot forcing your will on others.
You remind me of this saying I came across once
