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    Providers who do not charge premium for SSD/NVMe
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    Providers who do not charge premium for SSD/NVMe

    edited December 2019 in General

    NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

    I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

    Comments

    • hyperexperthyperexpert Member, Provider

      Agreed, but you have to keep in mind that SSDs and NVMe die a lot faster than HDDs and needs to get replaced more often with heavy I/O such as with virtualization.

      Hyper Expert | Launch a high performance VPS in New York or Seattle in under 60 seconds | KVM plans starting at $2.99

    • IonSwitch_StanIonSwitch_Stan Member, Host Rep
      edited December 2019

      @LosPollosHermanos for consumer equipment you are correct -- the price difference is about 50% more for HDD storage. When you move into enterprise equipment, there is still quite a price difference for enterprise grade equipment. The cost between HDD and SSD is still roughly double, and SSD to NVME is roughly double. For providers who are running consumer disks, the difference becomes much smaller, but then as @hyperexpert mentions you run into TBW problems. Our enterprise SSD's have 3TBWD (or greater), and we expect them to run without any problems for the host's life. Consumer SSD's with much lower data thresholds will likely get crushed much sooner.

      Thanked by 1eva2000
    • You can always check SoYouStart : https://www.soyoustart.com/us/essential-servers/ , you have several dedicated servers with 2 x 480 GB SSD starting at $35.99 /mo (current recurring discount, for some more days)

      Good Night and Good Luck :sleeping:

    • @hyperexpert said:
      Agreed, but you have to keep in mind that SSDs and NVMe die a lot faster than HDDs and needs to get replaced more often with heavy I/O such as with virtualization.

      Do they, though? All my hdd's have 2-3 year warranties and all my SSD/NVMe are rated for 5-10 years.

      Heavy I/O isn't a problem, just tons of writes. Drives generally handle far higher than their rated write durations, as well.

    • SmartHostSmartHost Member, Provider

      Keep in mind most hosts have tons of HDDs in stock for re-usage, which have already been paid for several times over, but SSD/NVME may require new hardware purchases for them.
      .

      SmartHost™ - Intelligent Hosting! - Multiple Locations - US/EU! - Join our Resale Program
      https://www.smarthost.net - sales@smarthost.net - Ultra-Fast NVME SSD KVM VPS - $2.95/month!

    • PureVoltagePureVoltage Member, Provider

      Depending on the size of the drives there is always going to be a bit of a cost difference until those prices change.
      However 512GB you should find most companies don't charge a huge amount more for those.
      Just look for enterprise SSD's if you are worried about them dying, we have had a lot better track record with SSD's not failing vs spinning drives.

      We've been almost strictly using SSD's since 2010 with thousands deployed almost no failures other than some cheap consumer grade ones that got used for heavy database usage which is a killer.

      PureVoltage Colocation with 6 Global locations, Seattle, LA, New York, Dallas, Chicago, and Amsterdam

    • edited December 2019

      PureVoltage said: no failures other than some cheap consumer grade ones

      From your experiences, how much data were driven to those drives before they were dead and with what size of the drive?

      Any example/data? For example:

      100TB driven to Micron 500GB SSD.

      Thanks.

    • @hyperexpert said:
      Agreed, but you have to keep in mind that SSDs and NVMe die a lot faster than HDDs and needs to get replaced more often with heavy I/O such as with virtualization.

      Not really. It's pretty simple math to predict based on usage and newer flash has much higher write cycles as well. At the very least, you can more accurately predict failure time with Flash.

    • @IonSwitch_Stan said:
      @LosPollosHermanos for consumer equipment you are correct -- the price difference is about 50% more for HDD storage. When you move into enterprise equipment, there is still quite a price difference for enterprise grade equipment. The cost between HDD and SSD is still roughly double, and SSD to NVME is roughly double. For providers who are running consumer disks, the difference becomes much smaller, but then as @hyperexpert mentions you run into TBW problems. Our enterprise SSD's have 3TBWD (or greater), and we expect them to run without any problems for the host's life. Consumer SSD's with much lower data thresholds will likely get crushed much sooner.

      A lot of providers are using consumer SSD's. They are better than enterprise HDD's imo so it's a step up.

    • edited January 3

      @SmartHost said:
      Keep in mind most hosts have tons of HDDs in stock for re-usage, which have already been paid for several times over, but SSD/NVME may require new hardware purchases for them.
      .

      Not entirely true. Some providers are offering brand new HDD's in many cases. I believe those prices have gone down as well.

      As a customer, it is not really my problem where a provider is in their hardware investment cycle. I want to get the best quality hardware I can find at the best price. If provider A wants to keep their prices artificially higher than they need to be than I am free to choose provider B.

    • jlayjlay Member
      edited January 3

      The $currency per gig for NVMe is still high, and the bar for entry is higher.

      No motherboard supports like an Intel L5420 CPU and the m.2 interface. So not only do the drives cost more, but so does the privilege of connecting them. A lot of lower end dedicated servers are still on SATA 1 (1.5Gb/s), and even the cheapest of SSDs would be limited!

      The cost can more easily been eaten when it's a large pool being carved up for like cloud server block storage - this isn't really an option for dedicated servers, so the price premium is handed off

      Providers are also likely to charge more for things simply being 'premium'. If for example a customer wants to run their databases well, they may spring for that say $20/m mark up for an extra SSD knowing full well they'll be paying it off several times during the lifetime of the system. It's not intended as a solution for everyone, just an upsell for those who want/need it.

      Site Reliability Engineer - happy to help with anything Linux!

    • dahartigandahartigan Member, Host Rep

      @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @SmartHost said:
      Keep in mind most hosts have tons of HDDs in stock for re-usage, which have already been paid for several times over, but SSD/NVME may require new hardware purchases for them.
      .

      Not entirely true. Some providers are offering brand new HDD's in many cases. I believe those prices have gone down as well.

      As a customer, it is not really my problem where a provider is in their hardware investment cycle. I want to get the best quality hardware I can find at the best price. If provider A wants to keep their prices artificially higher than they need to be than I am free to choose provider B.

      If that's your attitude, you should just DIY :-). Buy the cheapest hardware, colo in the cheapest DC, do it as cheap as you like. Epiphany will come.

      HostDoc rep | Watch this space.. | "Get a FREE high-spec VPS from Evolution Host"

    • @dahartigan said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @SmartHost said:
      Keep in mind most hosts have tons of HDDs in stock for re-usage, which have already been paid for several times over, but SSD/NVME may require new hardware purchases for them.
      .

      Not entirely true. Some providers are offering brand new HDD's in many cases. I believe those prices have gone down as well.

      As a customer, it is not really my problem where a provider is in their hardware investment cycle. I want to get the best quality hardware I can find at the best price. If provider A wants to keep their prices artificially higher than they need to be than I am free to choose provider B.

      If that's your attitude, you should just DIY :-). Buy the cheapest hardware, colo in the cheapest DC, do it as cheap as you like. Epiphany will come.

      That's why LEB never dies.

      Thanked by 1dahartigan

      Deals and Reviews: LowEndBoxes Review | Avoid dodgy providers with The LEBRE Whitelist | Free hosting (with conditions): Evolution-Host, NanoKVM, FreeMach, ServedEZ | Follow latest deals on Twitter or Telegram

    • @dahartigan said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @SmartHost said:
      Keep in mind most hosts have tons of HDDs in stock for re-usage, which have already been paid for several times over, but SSD/NVME may require new hardware purchases for them.
      .

      Not entirely true. Some providers are offering brand new HDD's in many cases. I believe those prices have gone down as well.

      As a customer, it is not really my problem where a provider is in their hardware investment cycle. I want to get the best quality hardware I can find at the best price. If provider A wants to keep their prices artificially higher than they need to be than I am free to choose provider B.

      If that's your attitude, you should just DIY :-). Buy the cheapest hardware, colo in the cheapest DC, do it as cheap as you like. Epiphany will come.

      I highly recommend Colocroissant

      Thanked by 1dahartigan

      relentless collector of highest clocked, highest performing KVM/NVMe/Gbit VPSes at the most competitive rates. just to hard idle them. zero knowledge on coding/programming; a mere hobbyist.

    • @cybertech said:
      I highly recommend Colocroissant

      ColonCroissant

      Thanked by 1cybertech

      Deals and Reviews: LowEndBoxes Review | Avoid dodgy providers with The LEBRE Whitelist | Free hosting (with conditions): Evolution-Host, NanoKVM, FreeMach, ServedEZ | Follow latest deals on Twitter or Telegram

    • antonpaantonpa Member, Provider

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      You can try our locations https://justhost.ru/services/vps, we have low difference in price between SSD/NVMe

      Telegram: JustHostBot | Skype justhostru

      JustHost.ru - fast KVM NVMe VPS

    • edited January 4

      @dahartigan said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @SmartHost said:
      Keep in mind most hosts have tons of HDDs in stock for re-usage, which have already been paid for several times over, but SSD/NVME may require new hardware purchases for them.
      .

      Not entirely true. Some providers are offering brand new HDD's in many cases. I believe those prices have gone down as well.

      As a customer, it is not really my problem where a provider is in their hardware investment cycle. I want to get the best quality hardware I can find at the best price. If provider A wants to keep their prices artificially higher than they need to be than I am free to choose provider B.

      If that's your attitude, you should just DIY :-). Buy the cheapest hardware, colo in the cheapest DC, do it as cheap as you like. Epiphany will come.

      I doesn't make sense for what I do.

    • @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      As i play with their configurator a lot (fun :) ), I know Hivelocity's SSD vs NVMe prices are only US$10 difference https://www.hivelocity.net/dedicated-servers/

      480GB SSD $19/month
      512GB NVMe $29/month

      960GB SSD $39/month
      960GB NVMe $49/month

      1.92TB SSD $69/month
      1.92TB NVMe $79/month

      * Centmin Mod Project (HTTP/2 support + ngx_pagespeed + Nginx Lua + Vhost Stats)
      * Centmin Mod LEMP Stack Quick Install Guide
    • @eva2000 said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      As i play with their configurator a lot (fun :) ), I know Hivelocity's SSD vs NVMe prices are only US$10 difference https://www.hivelocity.net/dedicated-servers/

      480GB SSD $19/month
      512GB NVMe $29/month

      960GB SSD $39/month
      960GB NVMe $49/month

      1.92TB SSD $69/month
      1.92TB NVMe $79/month

      I will take a look at them. I am not asking about NVMe vs SSD. Either one will do just fine. They are both significantly better than HDD.

    • NVMe is a lot better than SATA SSD.

      With NVMe, you can use SPDK to access storage without going through kernel.
      With SATA SSD, there's no direct way to access storage without going through kernel, which means lower performance.

      If you don't have 40Gbps or more dedicated bandwidth, you won't see much difference.

    • edited January 13

      @yoursunny said:
      NVMe is a lot better than SATA SSD.

      With NVMe, you can use SPDK to access storage without going through kernel.
      With SATA SSD, there's no direct way to access storage without going through kernel, which means lower performance.

      If you don't have 40Gbps or more dedicated bandwidth, you won't see much difference.

      Show me real-world proof of that. I know under ideal conditions it's faster but in the real world there are a lot of factors that come into play. I can google too so I don't just want some link to some ideal test. Show me tests of real-world examples of actually doing something useful where the speed difference would have a positive impact on a hosting business.

      Of course, all things being equal, NVMe is the way to go. However, if I can save a few bucks I would seriously consider SSD. One of the problems with renting servers is that the price almost never comes down, even though their costs do. Whatever I rent an NVMe server at today, I will still be paying that years down the road for that server. I can try beat them up on that price every once in awhile but I have found they rarely want to budge.

      If I have the luxury to cancel servers and re-order or move around to different providers whenever I choose then getting locked into a price is not much of a problem. However, for my particular situation, I don't have that luxury. Colocating or using my own IP blocks is not really an option for me either.

    • marvelmarvel Member
      edited January 13

      @eva2000 said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      As i play with their configurator a lot (fun :) ), I know Hivelocity's SSD vs NVMe prices are only US$10 difference https://www.hivelocity.net/dedicated-servers/

      480GB SSD $19/month
      512GB NVMe $29/month

      960GB SSD $39/month
      960GB NVMe $49/month

      1.92TB SSD $69/month
      1.92TB NVMe $79/month

      Only $10 a month, that's still $120 a year ;) And you probably need at least 2 for redundancy so that's $240 / year which is still a lot of money. Also if you look at 480 GB SSD vs 512 GB NVMe that's a 33% price increase.

      Anyway if you don't want to pay premium for NVMe it might be better to colocate. I think it's cheaper in the long run anyway, depending on the specs you need.

      http://minikvm.com - € 16 / year NVMe 10GE KVM VPS!
      http://autovm.com - OVH Game VDS servers Worldwide & Premium Voxility Servers Los Angeles.

    • @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @yoursunny said:
      NVMe is a lot better than SATA SSD.

      Show me real-world proof of that. I know under ideal conditions it's faster but in the real world there are a lot of factors that come into play. I can google too so I don't just want some link to some ideal test. Show me tests of real-world examples of actually doing something useful where the speed difference would have a positive impact on a hosting business.

      You could see a difference during installation. Last week I installed two dedicated servers using the same Ubuntu 18.04 disc. The initial apt full-upgrade installing the same packages took twice as long on the SATA SSD machine than the NVMe machine.

      After installation, you need 40Gbps or faster connection to see the difference. With a measly 10Gbps connection, NVMe benefit is rarely visible on a regular HTTP server.
      I'm trying to build a content router (something similar to a CDN edge node) at 100Gbps speeds. NVMe 's lower latency is expected to make a big difference in end user latency.

    • @yoursunny said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @yoursunny said:
      NVMe is a lot better than SATA SSD.

      Show me real-world proof of that. I know under ideal conditions it's faster but in the real world there are a lot of factors that come into play. I can google too so I don't just want some link to some ideal test. Show me tests of real-world examples of actually doing something useful where the speed difference would have a positive impact on a hosting business.

      You could see a difference during installation. Last week I installed two dedicated servers using the same Ubuntu 18.04 disc. The initial apt full-upgrade installing the same packages took twice as long on the SATA SSD machine than the NVMe machine.

      After installation, you need 40Gbps or faster connection to see the difference. With a measly 10Gbps connection, NVMe benefit is rarely visible on a regular HTTP server.
      I'm trying to build a content router (something similar to a CDN edge node) at 100Gbps speeds. NVMe 's lower latency is expected to make a big difference in end user latency.

      This is one use case, not all. Not every use case involves the internet connection. For example, compiling code use case would definitely see a reoccuring benefit, regardless of internet bandwidth.

    • @marvel said:

      @eva2000 said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      @LosPollosHermanos said:
      NVMe and especially SSD is not that much of a premium over HDD anymore. Yet a lot of dedi providers still try charge a big premium for that. I am talking 512Mb x2. 1TB SSD is still a bit more expensive but that is rapidly changing as well. Pretty soon NVMe will be parity with SSD but I don't necessarily need NVMe if the motherboard doesn't support it.

      I am looking for someone who is not trying to charge more or maybe a few extra dollars a month at most. Also needs to be a fairly big and established player with a good support track record and the bandwidth to avoid constant DDoS.

      As i play with their configurator a lot (fun :) ), I know Hivelocity's SSD vs NVMe prices are only US$10 difference https://www.hivelocity.net/dedicated-servers/

      480GB SSD $19/month
      512GB NVMe $29/month

      960GB SSD $39/month
      960GB NVMe $49/month

      1.92TB SSD $69/month
      1.92TB NVMe $79/month

      Only $10 a month, that's still $120 a year ;) And you probably need at least 2 for redundancy so that's $240 / year which is still a lot of money. Also if you look at 480 GB SSD vs 512 GB NVMe that's a 33% price increase.

      Anyway if you don't want to pay premium for NVMe it might be better to colocate. I think it's cheaper in the long run anyway, depending on the specs you need.

      Yes, these little costs add up and are what kill you in the big picture. It's death by a thousand paper cuts.

    • @yoursunny said:

      @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @yoursunny said:
      NVMe is a lot better than SATA SSD.

      Show me real-world proof of that. I know under ideal conditions it's faster but in the real world there are a lot of factors that come into play. I can google too so I don't just want some link to some ideal test. Show me tests of real-world examples of actually doing something useful where the speed difference would have a positive impact on a hosting business.

      You could see a difference during installation. Last week I installed two dedicated servers using the same Ubuntu 18.04 disc. The initial apt full-upgrade installing the same packages took twice as long on the SATA SSD machine than the NVMe machine.

      After installation, you need 40Gbps or faster connection to see the difference. With a measly 10Gbps connection, NVMe benefit is rarely visible on a regular HTTP server.
      I'm trying to build a content router (something similar to a CDN edge node) at 100Gbps speeds. NVMe 's lower latency is expected to make a big difference in end user latency.

      I only use 1Gbps. So not relevant for what I do and if it's only for installation I don't care. I don't install servers often enough for that to be an issue.

    • @LosPollosHermanos said:

      @yoursunny said:
      I'm trying to build a content router (something similar to a CDN edge node) at 100Gbps speeds. NVMe 's lower latency is expected to make a big difference in end user latency.

      I only use 1Gbps. So not relevant for what I do and if it's only for installation I don't care. I don't install servers often enough for that to be an issue.

      I only use 100Gbps.
      1Gbps belongs to the last decade.

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