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Email Services

gksgks Member

Can you recommend reasonably reliable and cost effective email services with support personal involved? We have about 15 emails, do you recommend shard hosting sites and plans [even though, we don't host websites] like

https://www.a2hosting.com/web-hosting/compare

or can you recommend other reliable services which can cost 3-5 USD per month.

Checked Zoho, it is expensive for us.

LET === User Enlightened Territory

Comments

  • I've been very happy with MXRoute over the last years: https://mxroute.com/

    Look out for their promo plans.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • @brueggus , I am using them now, at present. This is for business purpose, little concerned about support.

    LET === User Enlightened Territory

  • jarjar Provider

    gks said: little concerned about support

    What can I do to make the path to support more apparent for you? I don't mean your preferred method of obtaining support, but how I can make it apparent what path you should go down and what to expect along the way. I thought by putting "Support" in the website navigation and redirecting the "Open Ticket" link in WHMCS I would have done that, but I'm happy to hear the opposing perspective.

    Thanked by 1SpryServers_Tab

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  • uptimeuptime Member
    edited December 2019

    @gks - might check myw.pt (@MikePT) for shared hosting using mailchannels, with support.

    Fastmail actually seems like it could a decent fit your requirements and budget at $50 per year. That's the only one I have any longterm personal experience with to recommend, but I also might check tuffmail.com for a more bare-bones but very solid email service.

    If you really want to dig a bit deeper there is the emaildisccussions forum - which might be helpful to get an idea of what other services are out there.

    I might also suggest just waiting for the dust to settle with regard to mxroute support - I would expect that it will get figured out better - and given that no provider is perfect, all things considered they may ultimately work out to be one of the better options in that price range.

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  • @jar, enable email support, that would be enough at least.

    LET === User Enlightened Territory

  • jarjar Provider

    @gks said:
    @jar, enable email support, that would be enough at least.

    Sure, but that'll take us back to where it took about a week to get an answer. You got an answer in an hour and it would've taken less if you clicked "Support" or "Open Ticket" and read a very small amount of text. Are you certain that you prefer that?

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • jarjar Provider
    edited December 2019

    uptime said: waiting for the dust to settle with regard to mxroute support

    It's done, settled, and customers are praising it left and right but no one sees it because that's happening in our customer chat. Unfortunately there's this odd thing where customers have to actually click a support link, which is somehow worse than having to click a support link or something :tongue:

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  • @jar, I will go to chat here after, some mode of support is fine for me. Thanks jar!! appreciated.

    Thanked by 2jar uptime

    LET === User Enlightened Territory

  • uptimeuptime Member
    edited December 2019

    @jar - (just wondering) have you considered maybe using an autoresponder to email the links for preferred support options when people ping the support @ mxroute address?

    Thanked by 2jar kkrajk

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  • jarjar Provider

    uptime said: have you considered mayhe using an autoresponder to email the links for preferred support options when people ping the support @ mxroute address?

    Too often lately autoresponders are seeing abuse for backscatter purposes. I fear they may be the next piece of email that has become extinct due to spammers.

    Thanked by 3Falzo uptime Ouji

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  • I have MXRoute and would prefer emails rather than the chat btw.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • I prefer the chat, much more relaxing and easier to communicate as you get the reply quite quick : )

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Provider
    edited December 2019

    @tester4 said:
    I have MXRoute and would prefer emails rather than the chat btw.

    When we started, we had a simple support ticket system. Eventually we moved that to an email based system. For roughly the last two years of this, support requests would stack up to such high quantities that it could take us up to a month to sort and answer them.

    We were never priced to be able to hire that rapidly, our service was originally launched to cater to the needs of those who could find their own answers and didn't need to talk to us about it. However, our pricing and quality led to unexpected popularity among different crowds.

    Now, we could have halted growth and said "We won't grow any further without extreme price hikes" to enable us to hire staff to handle the support needs of these new customers, but that would have completely gone against our launch goals: to break the market of excessive pricing and challenge the notion that quality requires high cost. Not to mention the pricing is part of the reason for the growth, so a huge price hike is basically saying "Company failed, go elsewhere" and I don't think that's really what anyone wants either.

    So we were forced to come up with a creative solution to the problem. We began to look at some variables. First, what were people asking us about? Things like:

    "Do you support SMTP?"

    "Can I use this with WordPress?"

    Many of the questions would be answered by just reading the front page of our website or searching google for "how to use SMTP with {app name}." We needed to create a bottleneck that forced people to either:

    1. Find it easier to seek the answer than to contact us.

    2. Be more thoughtful in their questions.

    No matter what, if we give customers or potential customers a wide open place to simply dump a question with ease, we were flooded with questions that indicated zero effort and little thoughtfulness. We get it, to them the question is of value, but we're not giving up our mission and raising our prices because people want to ask questions more than look for answers.

    The second question, what are our resources? Well it turns out that we have an amazing community of customers that are thankful for the huge savings we've given them over the alternatives, many of which are very technically gifted.

    So the idea was to build a community support structure and a public archive of already answered questions, with a reasonable ability to escalate to staff after following the path. So far it's working brilliantly and we've lost less than 10 customers over it, while hundreds are getting fast support when needed and telling us what a great experience it is.

    I'll write a blog post on it sometime because it takes a lot to keep writing this history out, but safe to say we're not just being assholes or ignoring the requests. We're just not going back to cause problems so we can say "told you so" when we've already been there, failed, and we're looking right at a much improved reality.

    That's why my ask above wasn't "how do you want support" because I know the answer here, it's just incompatible. My real ask was more like "how do I make you realize how to get support?" Because we have it and it's working, but I don't know where I'm failing to get people to find it. I accept that the failure is mine, I have tunnel vision on it. To me, it's really obvious and well highlighted, but that's just proof that I can't see through someone else's eyes.

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  • hzrhzr Member, Moderator

    $3-5/month is considered "0 SLA personal use". Not business. Not production with any form of support SLO/SLA.

    Thanked by 1TimboJones
  • @hzr said:
    $3-5/month is considered "0 SLA personal use". Not business. Not production with any form of support SLO/SLA.

    True, Zoho is considerably expensive, a friend of mine recommended a2hosting with reasonable SLA.

    I am happy with mxroute [the new setup like chat is new to me, I am old school email person] as it was way affordable than anyone else, we still in startup stage, with 5-7 usd with netcup like 99% uptime is fine at this moment.

    While we grow, we need HA setup, I am sure, we need to pay higher price.

    LET === User Enlightened Territory

  • RadiRadi Member, Provider

    We are within your upper budget: https://drserver.net/mail.php. In regards to support, we reply within minutes usually, maximum hour or two and we do it via ticket.

    4 GB RAM/90 GB SSD/4 TB Traffic/KVM/1 IPv4 for $7/mo only here with coupon code "LET-It-GO".

  • bikegremlinbikegremlin Member
    edited December 2019

    @jar said:
    That's why my ask above wasn't "how do you want support" because I know the answer here, it's just incompatible. My real ask was more like "how do I make you realize how to get support?" Because we have it and it's working, but I don't know where I'm failing to get people to find it. I accept that the failure is mine, I have tunnel vision on it. To me, it's really obvious and well highlighted, but that's just proof that I can't see through someone else's eyes.

    Snipped the long post - all perfectly common sense.

    As a customer, I can say that the support system, as it is, works perfectly.
    Beyond what I would expect.

    Using forum for support has several advantages:
    1) One can find answers already given to someone else - like a sort of a knowledge base.

    2) Community members (other users) can help each other.

    3) It is Google friendly, serving as a sort of a long term free advertising.

    All these savings (on support and advertising costs) are, at least with MXroute, transfered to customers to a large degree. Providing a very affordable service of a rather good quality (at least in my experience).

    Those in need of a fast (ticket, phone etc.) response, for whatever reason, should most probably look elsewhere. If no other, MXroute resellers could be an in-between solution (should be able to offer still lower prices than competition, but depending on agreements, could offer a ticket support system).

    I personally prefer ticket/forum system to chat, or phone, for the above noted reasons (it's a lot easier to search for the answers already given). With forum being at an advantage for providing other customers' support answers, while still allowing for private messages to Jarland for the privacy sensitive data (suppose it's much like a ticket system?).

    My long drivel on phone/chat vs ticket support system.

    Thanked by 1jar

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  • 5$ MXRoute or other providers where you pay 12$/y does the job good enough.
    It would not spend more then 1$ per month on email.

  • Neoon said: It would not spend more then 1$ per month on email.

    Of course, unless it is for business use cases.

  • WiredBladeWiredBlade Member, Provider

    Have you checked out Dynu like some users have provided feedback on this forum?

    Wired Blade, Inc. [AS398019] - Dedicated Servers & VPS in Phoenix, AZ. Affordable Prices & Excellent Support!
    VPS SALE!! 4 cores 8 GB RAM 60 GB SSD $10 with coupon HALFOFF DDoS Protected, 10Gbps connectivity!

  • I have used dynu, it’s cheap with multiple accounts, just works.

  • I've been with Mailcheap for almost 2 years now, no problems yet.

  • @TheRealMakan said:
    I've been with Mailcheap for almost 2 years now, no problems yet.

    +1

  • @gks said:
    @jar, I will go to chat here after, some mode of support is fine for me. Thanks jar!! appreciated.

    I admit I was hesitant about this as well but the concerns about not having a ticket system (e-mail) seem to be overstated. jar (and his colleagues) have great support through both the community forum and through chat.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • marvelmarvel Member without signature

    I'm looking for the same, right now I'm running Debian with Postfix and Spamassassin on sandbox OVH VPS which cost a few bucks each month. But I have to maintain it. I just want a cloud service.

    I need SMTPAUTH though and I need full support for SPF/DMARC/DKIM as well as TLS.

    I don't need any email storage, I just need it forwarded to my existing e-mail address.

    Any idea? MXRoute seems pretty steep at $40 / year.

  • Have anyone tried this? https://postale.io/

    Thanked by 1doubled
  • @marvel said:
    I'm looking for the same, right now I'm running Debian with Postfix and Spamassassin on sandbox OVH VPS which cost a few bucks each month. But I have to maintain it. I just want a cloud service.

    I need SMTPAUTH though and I need full support for SPF/DMARC/DKIM as well as TLS.

    I don't need any email storage, I just need it forwarded to my existing e-mail address.

    Any idea? MXRoute seems pretty steep at $40 / year.

    @marvel said:
    I'm looking for the same, right now I'm running Debian with Postfix and Spamassassin on sandbox OVH VPS which cost a few bucks each month. But I have to maintain it. I just want a cloud service.

    I need SMTPAUTH though and I need full support for SPF/DMARC/DKIM as well as TLS.

    I don't need any email storage, I just need it forwarded to my existing e-mail address.

    Any idea? MXRoute seems pretty steep at $40 / year.

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    I am their dead fans.

  • jarjar Provider

    marvel said: MXRoute seems pretty steep at $40 / year.

    Oh LET, never change lol

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  • marvel said: MXRoute seems pretty steep at $40 / year.

    $40 per year for unlimited users though! G Suite (which is very popular for enterprise users) starts at $72 per year per user.

  • I may have to switch from GSuite to MXRoute when the next deal comes up. Seems like they get quite a bit of praise and it's good to see the provider active here.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • @taubin said:
    I may have to switch from GSuite to MXRoute when the next deal comes up. Seems like they get quite a bit of praise and it's good to see the provider active here.

    They are worth all the money, actually, worth more than what we're spending.

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  • @armandorg said:

    @taubin said:
    I may have to switch from GSuite to MXRoute when the next deal comes up. Seems like they get quite a bit of praise and it's good to see the provider active here.


    They are worth all the money, actually, worth more than what we're spending.

    That's quite true, and to be honest I probably won't wait.

    But this is LET after all ;)

  • syedssyeds Member

    i think you may check https://hostinganddomain.net smtp services

  • gksgks Member

    I am sticking to @jar.

    Thanked by 1jar

    LET === User Enlightened Territory

  • I have been using Yandex for some of my small projects and it has been brilliant so far. It is completely free, so if you are not paranoid about using a Russian company it is a good one to consider.

    Thanked by 1TheKiller

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  • KermEdKermEd Member
    edited March 7

    I’m sure mxroute is fine... but an email provider that can’t provide support by email is funny to me :D only on LET... smh.

    The kicker - their poor ‘support’ has been fixed, but of course they can’t share that, because it’s locked in their new ‘chat’ support system.

    It is quite literally as much work to reply to an email as a chat. Idk wtf is wrong with people.

  • jarjar Provider
    edited March 7

    @KermEd said:
    I’m sure mxroute is fine... but an email provider that can’t provide support by email is funny to me :D only on LET... smh.

    The kicker - their poor ‘support’ has been fixed, but of course they can’t share that, because it’s locked in their new ‘chat’ support system.

    It is quite literally as much work to reply to an email as a chat. Idk wtf is wrong with people.

    Commenting on it is a good bit easier than actually running your own ESP at scale (that's key, anyone can do anything with under 2000 customers) when that ESP aims both to eliminate IP reputation issues and market norms on cost without employing a unique support strategy. Sure I could provide totally normal support paths and put my prices more in line with others, but that's not my goal and that's why I have customers. My customers are down for something unique and different that gets the job done. If they wanted the same old $5/m per user and a normal support ticket system instead of my in-house relays and storage-based cost, they'd pick from a million competitors. They don't, and they get great support and great deals as a result. From my vantage point, focusing on customers that are actively using the service and talking to me about it, it's working out quite well in the vast majority of cases. I have much better, more personal relationships with a much larger number of customers now.

    But, as you say "only on LET." It's really "only on LET" that it's a problem, not in practice with 999 out of 1000 real customers. It's okay to not want to break out of preconceived notions about what support should look like, but if you're willing then you're going to get a much better support experience than MXroute could provide otherwise, and if you're not then you generally have to pay more (depending on your needs).

    On a more abstract note, some of my thoughts on industry-wide support:

    It is consistently the complaint against rapidly growing companies that, when they reach a certain size, support goes to shit. All of them are doing the same things to offer support. Yet, consistently, they either fail (if they're growing at a reasonable pace) or they're "too expensive" to the average user. They can either not grow, exclude a ton of customers that can't afford their high prices, or eventually their support goes to shit. Now, LET customers don't mind this. They don't mind when a company grows so big that it's support goes to shit. They just move to the next provider that hasn't gotten that big and tell their friends that the provider is no longer any good. That's a bit harder for the ESP space, but the mindset comes from the VPS space where companies are a dime a dozen. The providers that are growing rapidly, they shouldn't be seeing that as positive either, they should be seeing that as a challenge to think differently and figure out how to meet those needs at scale.

    Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and expecting different results, and as overused as that reference may be I think it heavily applies to support in the hosting industry. The ones destined to succeed without compromising on highly competitive pricing or support quality will be the ones who dare to break out of the default mold that has been failing time and time again at scale. What I've done with MXroute support is deploy a stronger version of my model for DO support that never saw full implementation (thus the week or longer wait times for most tickets). There may indeed be tweaks ahead for it, but it's an incredibly positive iteration on what was had before it. I'm quite proud of the level of support I'm able to offer given how insane MXroute's growth has been.

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  • @jar said:

    Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and expecting different results

    No, he most certainly did not say that. This is a made up quote from a 12 step program. It's seriously a really stupid and nonsensical quote, as well. They should have just said, "if you keep doing the things that make you a drug addict, you'll continue to be a drug addict". That's the context.

    Any programmer that ever did a do/while loop should immediately recognize this quote as dumb. Computers essentially work as "keep doing this over and over until something happens" . The world is full of external forces, that's why things change regularly.

    Please don't ever attribute that silly quote to Einstein. He deserves better.

    Thanked by 1KermEd
  • jarjar Provider
    edited March 8

    @TimboJones So glad you cleared that up, thanks.

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  • KermEdKermEd Member
    edited March 12

    @jar said:
    Commenting on it is a good bit easier than actually running your own ESP at scale

    No offense - you don't know me, but if we are flexing... I've managed teams of over 1,000 with a service center of over 1,000,000 active clients with their average purchase price at around 3.2k. So, to be clear, this isn't 'at scale' to me.

    Regardless, I already said I'm sure you have happy clients and justifications - it doesn't change it's amusing to me that you sell email services but don't provide it for support.

    I'm quite proud of the level of support I'm able to offer given how insane MXroute's growth has been.

    I'm glad you feel that way :). I'm happy you are seeing success. Given that chat is revolutionizing your business, it will be interesting to see if you decide to focus on including it in your sales model.

    Thanked by 1jar
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