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Online.net Spam Reporting Policy? Seems Strange, Only if forward complaint to customer
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Online.net Spam Reporting Policy? Seems Strange, Only if forward complaint to customer

I try to make life miserable for as many spammers as possible by reporting them to the host when that would make a difference. Where the host's range is a haven to spammers, I just block the ranges, hostwinds anyone? Most times you just send in a report with the IP and and the email headers, and poof, the spammer is gone.

When I reported spam to online.net, I got a form back asking if I was OK having the report go directly to the customer. If I did not agree, online.net would take no action on my complaint. I agreed as I want to stop spammers.

Is online.net's policy something caused by its location, Germany? Do they not want to be bothered by spam reports? Anything else? It seems strange to me that this is the only response I've had like that with the exception of Nexeon Tech, that I figured out is a spammer haven.

Comments

  • Ive seen tons of spam reports that should go directly to /dev/null.
    Dont expect that hosting provider is going to treat your reports like golden eggs.
    Do your job, let others do same. There are tons of spam lists, more than enough to make spamers go offline.

    Also - what you think is spam may be not actually spam from law point od view.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • stefemanstefeman Member
    edited December 2019

    Why do you even care? Just leave it alone.

    Budget hosts in france are notorious for dealing with abuse. Online.net is even worse than OVH when it comes handling abuse reports.

    They use all kinds of gimmicks to wear out your patience and waste your time.

    Fact is, you will never get him suspended from there with just your word and some random proof lol

  • You may have seen "tons of spam reports that should go to /dev/null" me, I know spam. I don't want to buy canvas prints or sunglasses or ugg boots. So the losers who send me those emails, I am going to try to get them canned, and I generally succeed as I know how to read email headers, and use whois. Also, as I am an attorney, I can understand "spam from the law point of view."

    @dodheimsgard said:
    Ive seen tons of spam reports that should go directly to /dev/null.
    Dont expect that hosting provider is going to treat your reports like golden eggs.
    Do your job, let others do same. There are tons of spam lists, more than enough to make spamers go offline.

    Also - what you think is spam may be not actually spam from law point od view.

  • Thanks for the advice on budget hosts in France and online.net, and I understand OVH spam. Most of my OVH reports get the spammer canned in less than 24 hours. As I take a pragmatic approach to everything. I just block the ranges if my reports don't work.

    I'll take that as a challenge to get someone suspended. If I can't, I'll block the range. I can usually figure out which is the best approach.

    I just don't like to receive spam. So if I have to do some work to have a clean inbox, OK.

    @stefeman said:
    Why do you even care? Just leave it alone.

    Budget hosts in france are notorious for dealing with abuse. Online.net is even worse than OVH when it comes handling abuse reports.

    They use all kinds of gimmicks to wear out your patience and waste your time.

    Fact is, you will never get him suspended from there with just your word and some random proof lol

  • jarjar Provider
    edited December 2019

    All abuse reports should go to customers to resolve. Just because it came from their server doesn't mean the customer is an actual/intentional spammer. The only odd thing is asking your permission first. That could be assumed by you submitting the report IMO.

  • I understand if the whois report shows the IP belongs to quadranet or cogent and its ilk, the spammer is probably some loser who bought a VPS or shared hosting account off of one of cogent's customers for example, and the customer of quadranet or other wholesaler of IPs and hosting should have a chance to resolve the problem. It's clear to me that the joy of owning a hosting service can be tested by numerous scammers and spammers buying your service only to abuse it.

    In my experience from hosts like linode, digitalocean, and amazonaws, they just can the spammer as the customer is a spammer versus being a host or reseller being abused or hacked. I see the same template spam almost everyday. If you know where to look, there are people who will buy any linode or digitalocean account to use for spamming.

    On the other hand, early in my experience as a purchaser of dedicated servers, I was hacked a couple of times to send spam through some php mailer hack. So I have had my host ask me a couple times what is going on. I've appreciated the grace extended to me, my chance to clean my sites.

    @jar said:
    All abuse reports should go to customers to resolve. Just because it came from their server doesn't mean the customer is an actual/intentional spammer. The only odd thing is asking your permission first. That could be assumed by you submitting the report IMO.

  • jackbjackb Member, Provider
    edited December 2019

    @MTUser2012 said:
    When I reported spam to online.net, I got a form back asking if I was OK having the report go directly to the customer. If I did not agree, online.net would take no action on my complaint. I agreed as I want to stop spammers.

    This may be related to an incident recently (year or few ago) where someone reported a terrorist site to a host and their name / contact information were forwarded on to the end user (being daesh). The complainant then blew up on social media about it. Iirc Krebs picked it up too. Possibly GDPR too though I think that is a bit of a stretch.

    Thanked by 1MTUser2012

    Afterburst - Awesome OpenVZ&KVM VPS in US+EU

  • @MTUser2012 said:
    You may have seen "tons of spam reports that should go to /dev/null" me, I know spam. I don't want to buy canvas prints or sunglasses or ugg boots. So the losers who send me those emails, I am going to try to get them canned, and I generally succeed as I know how to read email headers, and use whois. Also, as I am an attorney, I can understand "spam from the law point of view."

    @dodheimsgard said:
    Ive seen tons of spam reports that should go directly to /dev/null.
    Dont expect that hosting provider is going to treat your reports like golden eggs.
    Do your job, let others do same. There are tons of spam lists, more than enough to make spamers go offline.

    Also - what you think is spam may be not actually spam from law point od view.

    If you are attorney you know that spam fails under given country law. If spamer is based in country where spam is allowed you can do big, fat nothing. In some countries spam is not considered as crime, you would need to sue spammer in civil way. Most spammers know what they do and know how to avoid possible consequences.

  • @MTUser2012 said:
    Is online.net's policy something caused by its location, Germany?

    How did you determine the spammer is located in Germany?

    Providing less than /64 means "we are clueless about IPv6". My geekbench results. I haz OneProv, Servarica, Veesp.

  • jackbjackb Member, Provider
    edited December 2019

    @dodheimsgard said:

    @MTUser2012 said:
    You may have seen "tons of spam reports that should go to /dev/null" me, I know spam. I don't want to buy canvas prints or sunglasses or ugg boots. So the losers who send me those emails, I am going to try to get them canned, and I generally succeed as I know how to read email headers, and use whois. Also, as I am an attorney, I can understand "spam from the law point of view."

    @dodheimsgard said:
    Ive seen tons of spam reports that should go directly to /dev/null.
    Dont expect that hosting provider is going to treat your reports like golden eggs.
    Do your job, let others do same. There are tons of spam lists, more than enough to make spamers go offline.

    Also - what you think is spam may be not actually spam from law point od view.

    If you are attorney you know that spam fails under given country law. If spamer is based in country where spam is allowed you can do big, fat nothing. In some countries spam is not considered as crime, you would need to sue spammer in civil way. Most spammers know what they do and know how to avoid possible consequences.

    It doesn't really matter where the spammer is based. Primarily it is the location of the server. There's also some extra-terratorial considerations re: usage of EU citizens personal data (as recipients) even if the server is located where it isn't illegal.

    Plus there's terms of service / aup of relevant providers too, which are often stricter than the laws of the location the server is located in.

    Afterburst - Awesome OpenVZ&KVM VPS in US+EU

  • As others have stated, spam reports generally go to the owner/lessor of the host in question for multiple reasons: As a hosting provider, I have no idea what services you're running, I don't know if you signed up for a mailing list that you forgot about and that's why they're sending you emails, I don't know if that customer is reselling to another user or if he/she is the one responsible for the emails, I also don't know if your reports are real or if you're just a desperate competitor trying to get them shut down with fake spam reports. This is aside from the legal aspects, and as a lawyer I'm sure you're well aware. I.e...this host is in France, the person renting the server is in the US, you received the email in Canada, who's laws apply? Do I have the legal right to terminate a customer for this, and again based on who's laws? If they're not spamming, or it's allowable in their country, or you signed up for a mailing list that you forgot about, it is right for me to terminate them and am I setting myself up to get sued if I do? There are countless unknowns and my job as a hosting provider is not to be a judge, lawyer or private investigator.

    My policy has always been that spam reports are forwarded to the customer (not including the reporters name or contact information, that's unnecessary) and that if I receive multiple complaints from different users or see the IP pop up on a blacklist then the customer is terminated.

    The best thing you can do is report them to all of the spam monitoring services and encourage others to do the same so that they get blacklisted.

  • @dodheimsgard said:
    Ive seen tons of spam reports that should go directly to /dev/null.
    Dont expect that hosting provider is going to treat your reports like golden eggs.
    Do your job, let others do same. There are tons of spam lists, more than enough to make spamers go offline.

    Also - what you think is spam may be not actually spam from law point od view.

    Only provider I've found to actually involve themself in spam reports is Hivelocity. Support person personally ensured it was resolved and replied back to reporter.

    ^-^!

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