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Debt chasers for 1&1 debt
So I had a domain with IONOS/1&1 (big mistake, I know) and transferred it away. Then they sent a bill for another year, which I just ignored because I'd transferred the domain away and so wasn't gonna pay for a year when I'd already paid Namecheap and that was the end of it.
Now I just got a letter from some company called Arvato asking for the money and charging another £15 or so on top.
I don't wanna risk ruining my credit report over something like this, but I also don't want to pay £30 for a domain that's with another company.
Do you think I could just pay 1&1 the £15 now to get rid of this, or am I stuck paying this other company?
Comments
Debt's been sold by the sounds of it, so 1&1 are aren't in the picture anymore.
You might be able to reason with Arvato, but I'd personally pay the £30 and be done with it. If the bailiffs rock up you'll end up paying even more.
I'm not that much in domain thing, but if the domain got transferred, how 1&1 can charge for this domain ? Isn't like charge for something you don't own ? This seem illegal to me, unless there are something I don't know.
It was better if you did contact 1&1 from the beginning when they send you the bill and explain them the situation.
But now I think you should pay the bill
no idea why i think the guy in the middle is @Nekki
If the debt has been sold, do you think it's worth calling this debt company and telling them since the domain isn't with 1&1 anymore, I wouldn't be liable for a year of domain hosting (that's what the fee was for, not an inconvenience fee or anything like that) since I never received that.
I have no idea if any of that is true, but I'll see what they say anyway.
Also I love that show. Never thought I would be one of the people on it, lol.
Communication with these folks is key to stopping things getting worse.
By all means call them with your explanation and then if there's any dispute process they will have to give you details, and they may suspend the debt whilst you go about that process.
However, you may have to expend a lot of time an energy dealing with this, for the sake of £30. they kind of count on this, but at the same time you have to ask if it's worth your time.
Imagine how many idling VPSes you could get for £30!
But yea I'll probably speak to them, see what they say and probably give up if it's too much hassle.
It's principal more than anything.
so you transferred your domain out but did not cancel the contract with 1&1 and ignored the invoice they send you?
there is nothing to negotiate. pay and be done with it.
Arvato btw is a company/branch of Bertelsmann and has over 20 locations worldwide. I am pretty sure they will follow up like forever and it will become more quickly.
TL;DR; next time make sure you cancel your contracts properly. esp when dealing with european/german companies...
@hostnoob
Background reading (a painful thread to read):
https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/159403/1and1-ionos-never-ever-make-a-payment-to-this-th-eves/p1
As @Falzo said, you didn't cancel your contract. Just transferring your domain away is not equivalent to canceling your contract. It's important to understand this difference because (unfortunately) some people never manage to understand it.
I'd say pay up because it will only get bigger if you delay it. And the worse part is that they expect you to ignore it so that they can make it bigger with interests.
It can be hundreds if you keep ignoring it until it gets big enough to trigger a warrant.
P.S. Learn to cancel next time. Ignoring a contract is not the same as cancellation.
The same goes for marriages.
From my experience: 1&1 have a policy: you must cancel the service at least 15 days (or even a month, can't remember) in advance, or it's considered you will be renewing (and you will be charged for renewal). By taking the service you are also accepting that deal.
I didn't have any problems realising that - that is, it was communicated to me clearly enough.
So I migrated my domains and cancelled the service well before that time. Don't like to worry that if I don't pay, I don't just have the service cancelled, but also pay for renewal and some extra fine or something. But I was aware of it.
As far as principles go, you could also say that one should honor their deals.
usually I settle it with the company, as its cheaper, but in this case the amount seems small so I dont know, but I guess you should not cheap yourself for 15 GBP and end up missing some loan opportunities in the future
maybe get 15 GBP credit from 1&1 back if you say you are paying because of a mistake, or ask 1&1 to settle it with Arvato?
You shouldn't assume that because someone has sent you a debt letter you are obliged to pay that claim. The rules and practice in the area of debt collection are very specioius and suspect.
The courts and debt collectors get away with plain fraud and theft because people don't know the law.
Just because someone sent you an invoice which is usually automated and does not involve any human oversight doesn't mean you are on the hook.
The important thing is to learn the law in this area or seek advice and don't go with "just pay up because it is not worth while disputing it." If you adopt this attitude it will cost you even more one day.
@hostnoob I had this one with 1&1, same debt collection company too. I cancelled the domain and contract. 1&1 still sent me invoices, even though everything was cancelled.
Next minute I get a phone call from the debt collection company, I tell them I had cancelled and also cancelled the contract. They said they would look into it. I never heard anything back and this has now been 2 years.
But just talk to them, tell them you don't even have the domain with 1&1 anymore, show them proof. 1&1 shouldn't be able to charge you for something they don't even have.
First, if they send a debitor down your way, THEY not YOU have to proof, that you have a outstanding invoice.
You should not, ignore such letters, you need to respond and tell them, the claim is bullshit. Then they need to validate it, of course its helpful to attach the proof that the domain has been transfered out.
If you ignore such letters, you basically say yes, the invoice is valid, go and take my money.
Thanks for the replies everyone.
Yeah I just called them now. Said I would happily pay for 1 year of domain name hosting IF I had received or would receive that service, but the domain name is with Namecheap now (from sep 2019 - sep 2020) so I haven't had the 1 year of domain name hosting, and wouldn't receive it if I paid.
She said she would put it on hold and contact 1&1/IONOS
If they cancel the collection, I won't hear anything back from them. (This probably happened to you @Jord ) but if 1&1 come back again they'll contact me.
She barely even recorded what I was saying, or asked me to clarify anything, she was just like "OK I'll put it on hold and go back to them. You won't hear anything back from us if they agree to close it"
Now I'm wondering if I should ring 1&1 as well (in hindsight, probably should have done this in the first place, but I'm lazy)
Yep that's what happened with me, I heard nothing. The person I spoke to couldn't give two shits and just stuck it on hold. I suppose they get paid either way.
you can imagine they are very stressed individuals, usually these conversations dont end up well
Fuck.
As Falco mentioned Arvato is a branch of Bertelsmann, which means they are not some collection agency but a huge company that usually handles millions of magazine subscriptions and ecommerce transactions - which means they are a professional company that can be talked to.
Did you provide them documentation about your case, eg transfer confirmations, emails, invoice of the new registrar, etc?
Cant hurt to try it before you pay. After all they would at least realize that they have a weak case if they try to collect it via court.
I mentioned this stuff but the girl didn't ask for any of it just said she would put it on hold and contact 1&1
Not sure if I should speak to them too
From the sounds of it this type of a thing is probably happening on a bulk scale. Automated whatnots or whatever. The support staff probably don't have the time to get into the nitty gritty of every case.
Best of luck.
123-reg pulled this kind of crap when they registered the
.ukdomain for everyone who had a corresponding.co.ukdomain and went ahead and charged the credit cards and Paypals of lots of their customers when the renewal period was due.Two years ago, 123-Reg and NamesCo decided to register millions of .uk domains for customers without asking them
I threatened to raise a dispute with Paypal and they reversed it promptly.
Does it not seem odd to anyone else that a transfer out of a domain name wouldn't automatically trigger a cancellation of the contract at the end of the agreed term?
If the object of a contract (the domain name) is no longer available for 1&1 to renew, why would they try to renew such a contract? Assuming the domain was transferred out before the notification period, this would be a very silly thing for a business to do -- even if the contract wasn't canceled "properly."
It would be like me renewing the services of a client who is known to be a non-payer. It's just looking for trouble.
For such a small price, i would just pay for it and then reclaim costs after.
Just ignore them. Debt collectors have very limited powers unless you allow them to, at least in the UK. Since you didnt enter into a credit agreement with them it is unlikely to end up on Experian/Equifax. Fuck them off
Erm, until they take you co court at which point if you loose it lands right there for 6 years.
Which is why they would rather wait than push you since it's only 30.
Give it 10 years, it will be a lot more, then they will go for it.
Above is the premier of the UK show "Can't pay? We will take it away!". It all begins people laughing off small fines/debt until it comes to bite their asses later.
So, ignore this at your own peril.