CLimited.de - Strong and Cheap German KVM and Dedicated Servers! [DDoS Protected] [China Unblocked]

Gam3over

CLimited offers Strong KVM and Dedicated Servers since 2014.

Our Servers located in Frankfurt/Germany.

All our Servers protectet with the Voxility Anti DDoS Protection.

The servers can managed in our control panel.

-> vRoot Server Low Budget <-
Online now!
1 vCPU
1 GB Ram
35 GB SSD Storage
Windows/Linux Systeme
1 Ipv4 ( DDoS Protectedl )
IP Ipv6 Ready
KVM 1600 GBps DDoS Protection
1000 Mbps Shared Connection

3€/month

Order Now!

-> vRoot Mini <-
Online Now!
3 vCPU
4 GB Ram
75 GB SSD Storage
Windows/Linux
1 Ipv4 ( DDoS Protected )
Ipv6 Ready
KVM
1600 GBps DDoS Protection
1000 Mbps Connection

6€/month

Order Now!

Promotion code "lowendtalk" to get 25% off vRoot Server recurring.

KVM Servers: https://climited.de/cart.php?gid=31
Dedicated Servers: https://climited.de/serverboerse.php

Homepage: https://climited.de

grapple

Do you have a test IP or looking glass?

Thanks,

Ouji

It's a shame that the dedis aren't included in the promotion.

Gam3over

@Ouji said:
It's a shame that the dedis aren't included in the promotion.

Dedis are cheap and the Price is calculated... we dont have more then 25% profit after deduction of the electricity price and the traffic costs.

@grapple said:
Do you have a test IP or looking glass?

Thanks,

sure -> https://lg.combahton.net/

dfroe

Did anybody manage to obtain some kind of support with them?

Offers did not look bad at first sight. One week ago I sent them a mail to clarify some questions. After days without reply I registered with their WHMCS and opened a ticket. It got answered telling me that their mail server was broken. I replied again via WHMCS asking for some custom plans but never received any reply so far. Ticket was opened five days ago and I sent my last message four days ago.

Can anybody share some other experience with them? I hope to see some further process on my ticket maybe after the weekend and their overall quality is slightly above this first impression.

cybertech

Good deal but good luck tryna get support. It's a one man show and reviews on trustpilot aren't the most flattering, especially when it's in German.

ofit

Price look nice but i'm really afraid that company go out of business or i not get support when i really will need it.

nexusrain

Do you have an Acceptable Use Policy?

dz_paji

just wondering, what's the meaning of unblock china?

ITLabs

@dz_paji said:
just wondering, what's the meaning of unblock china?

(Probably) Their ips aren't blocked by GFW yet.

ManishPant

@Gam3over said:
Windows/Linux Systeme

While ordering i can't even choose which operating system i need and one of the major drawback is your website doesn't even translate in English , when you are targeting your business for global customer keep in mind that you need to have english content.
I can't even read your AUP or TOS and can't understand anything like how much traffic is include what does fair use means.
Lol i wonder who's gonna order besides germans. Hail Hydra

galiathus10

no good services. config of servers unfinished.

nexusrain

@ManishPant said:

@Gam3over said:
Windows/Linux Systeme

While ordering i can't even choose which operating system i need and one of the major drawback is your website doesn't even translate in English , when you are targeting your business for global customer keep in mind that you need to have english content.
I can't even read your AUP or TOS and can't understand anything like how much traffic is include what does fair use means.
Lol i wonder who's gonna order besides germans. Hail Hydra

You have to install the OS yourself by mounting the disc and connecting via noVNC.

ManishPant

@nexusrain said:

@ManishPant said:

@Gam3over said:
Windows/Linux Systeme

While ordering i can't even choose which operating system i need and one of the major drawback is your website doesn't even translate in English , when you are targeting your business for global customer keep in mind that you need to have english content.
I can't even read your AUP or TOS and can't understand anything like how much traffic is include what does fair use means.
Lol i wonder who's gonna order besides germans. Hail Hydra

You have to install the OS yourself by mounting the disc and connecting via noVNC.

So what about the window license , do we need to bring our own license also

nexusrain

@ManishPant said:
So what about the window license , do we need to our license also

Probably trial version.

AlexJones

Was interested until I saw voxility protection. They can only protect tcp last I used them and it was a poor network. Let me know if anything has changed

nexusrain

Processor: Common KVM processor
CPU cores: 1
Frequency: 2400.084 MHz
RAM: 985M
Swap: -
Kernel: Linux 4.15.0-60-generic x86_64

Disks:
loop0 86.6M HDD
loop1 88.7M HDD
sda 35G HDD

CPU: SHA256-hashing 500 MB
12.311 seconds
CPU: bzip2-compressing 500 MB
21.411 seconds
CPU: AES-encrypting 500 MB
*** WARNING : deprecated key derivation used.
Using -iter or -pbkdf2 would be better.
14.893 seconds

ioping: seek rate
min/avg/max/mdev = 326.6 us / 958.2 us / 26.9 ms / 1.46 ms
ioping: sequential read speed
generated 3.16 k requests in 5.00 s, 791 MiB, 632 iops, 158.2 MiB/s

dd: sequential write speed
1st run: 42.92 MiB/s
2nd run: 44.35 MiB/s
3rd run: 49.30 MiB/s
average: 45.52 MiB/s

IPv4 speedtests
your IPv4: 193.x.x.x

Cachefly CDN:         53.56 MiB/s
Leaseweb (NL):        24.42 MiB/s
Softlayer DAL (US):   1.50 MiB/s
Online.net (FR):      21.26 MiB/s
OVH BHS (CA):         3.24 MiB/s´

Gam3over

@AlexJones said:
Was interested until I saw voxility protection. They can only protect tcp last I used them and it was a poor network. Let me know if anything has changed

We Have Voxility and combahton Protection

Gam3over

earn Money with our Affiliate Program....

tmln

This is the worst provider I have seen in the past 15 years.
NEVER pay with Bitcoin!
Use Paypal so you can request for refund in case of troubles.
They have taken my Bitcoin and never activated the service.
Getting a ticket reply sometimes takes 1 week.

Gam3over

@tmln said:
This is the worst provider I have seen in the past 15 years.
NEVER pay with Bitcoin!
Use Paypal so you can request for refund in case of troubles.
They have taken my Bitcoin and never activated the service.
Getting a ticket reply sometimes takes 1 week.

Other Discussion

AlexJones

@Gam3over said:

@AlexJones said:
Was interested until I saw voxility protection. They can only protect tcp last I used them and it was a poor network. Let me know if anything has changed

We Have Voxility and combahton Protection

What devices does combahton use for protection? In house? What kind of L7 filters for webserver?

First-Root

@AlexJones said:

@Gam3over said:

@AlexJones said:
Was interested until I saw voxility protection. They can only protect tcp last I used them and it was a poor network. Let me know if anything has changed

We Have Voxility and combahton Protection

What devices does combahton use for protection? In house? What kind of L7 filters for webserver?

@combahton_it is doing in house (self developed solution with netmap or similar) and in addition has upstreams that supports flowspec. They do a great job.

Gam3over

@AlexJones said:

@Gam3over said:

@AlexJones said:
Was interested until I saw voxility protection. They can only protect tcp last I used them and it was a poor network. Let me know if anything has changed

We Have Voxility and combahton Protection

What devices does combahton use for protection? In house? What kind of L7 filters for webserver?

On combahton Website:

Which technologies are used?
As a technologically advanced enterprise, our entire DDoS protection solution is proprietary. We do not rely on the most inflexible hardware appliances of market leaders. Our tests have shown that they can either handle attacks on specific protocols very well, but lack the necessary flexibility, for to respond to complex UDP floods or Layer7 attacks. Based on several years of development work, we have succeeded in developing an all-round protection infrastructure, which terminates all attacks without any problems.

Our application is based on very efficient code and is fully developed in C. To speed up the application at the network level, Netmap is used as the kernel bypass. Based on this, we can achieve a capacity of approximately 96mpps per DDoS filter with a current Intel Xeon E5 system and 16 CPU cores.

The right protection solution
According to the application scenarios of our customers, we offer different solutions to ensure reliable operation at all times. This includes in the base the monitoring of all processes, as well as the proactive intervention by combahton employees, if anomalies such as increased clean traffic should occur.

We offer the following protection solutions as standard:

Reverse Proxy
To ward off attacks on your existing web applications, we offer our Layer7 DDoS proxy. Any request to your web server is previously verified for authenticity by the combahton infrastructure. The reverse proxy variant is the easiest way to integrate with your existing infrastructure and requires only a reconfiguration of your DNS records to the protected IP addresses we provide. The SSL termination, load balancing and caching of static content can also be done through the combahton Layer7 DDoS proxy - saving you the costly provision of server capacity and traffic at the same time.

BGP Session
If you operate your own AS (Autonomous System), our DDoS protection can also be provided via BGP. All you need is a GRE tunnel or crossconnect to our infrastructure. In this way, entire provider networks can be protected within seconds with low operating costs. You can also make customer-specific adjustments at any time via our Anti-DDoS API.

Protected Subnet
Your prefixes or subnets will be passed through combahton announced and via Static Route or in the VLan. This variant is ideal for protecting existing infrastructures without DDoS attacks.

Inhouse Protection
In this variant, our filter solution is integrated in your network. You rent the hardware and software according to the required protection volume. This variant is advantageous if you have enough external connection to withstand major attacks. Also, the in-house solution is ideally suited as a further level of protection for existing solutions, which experience has shown that not all untypical DDoS threats can be filtered out. We offer our smallest appliance with up to 10Gbit / 14.8mpps filter capacity, the management is done by us.

If you are already exposed to DDoS attacks, you can always contact us, our DDoS protection can also be provided within a few minutes.

We Have a combahton Routing (combahton manage our Subnets), additional we Route Traffic over Voxility.

combahton_it

@AlexJones said:
What devices does combahton use for protection? In house? What kind of L7 filters for webserver?

It's basically a multi-layer filtering which has evolved over the past six years. We do have contracts with our upstreams, which allow us to send them BGP Flowspec rules and pre-filter large attacks before they hit our network. Our upstreams are large Tier-2 Carriers, which have plenty of bandwith available to filter out even very large attacks. In addition, we have a lot of spare bandwith and well balanced inbound routing.

In order to filter floods such as TCP/UDP/ICMP, we do use regular servers which run our self written flowshield application. flowshield uses the netmap framework to bypass the linux kernel, by directly reading or writing the buffer (basically this is what the packets are) from or to the nic. Afterwards each single packet goes through a bunch of protocol based filters which do the whole magic. flowshield is written in C.

For layer7 filtering, we provide a transparent reverse proxy, which can be activated just by changing the inbound routing for a specific ip-address. That means, no dns changes are required - all http traffic is simply routed over the filter and gets locally redirected to the reverse proxy application. In order to filter layer7 attacks, we show the visitor a verification page, where the visitor needs to interact with - bots cant do that and get stopped by the filter. That works almost like Cloudflare, but without changing dns records or using a external solution - I would probably say, it works better too.

In order to provide valid ssl certificates, customers have the possibility to upload their own certificates within our customer area or over our api.

Gam3over

@combahton_it said:

@AlexJones said:
What devices does combahton use for protection? In house? What kind of L7 filters for webserver?

It's basically a multi-layer filtering which has evolved over the past six years. We do have contracts with our upstreams, which allow us to send them BGP Flowspec rules and pre-filter large attacks before they hit our network. Our upstreams are large Tier-2 Carriers, which have plenty of bandwith available to filter out even very large attacks. In addition, we have a lot of spare bandwith and well balanced inbound routing.

In order to filter floods such as TCP/UDP/ICMP, we do use regular servers which run our self written flowshield application. flowshield uses the netmap framework to bypass the linux kernel, by directly reading or writing the buffer (basically this is what the packets are) from or to the nic. Afterwards each single packet goes through a bunch of protocol based filters which do the whole magic. flowshield is written in C.

For layer7 filtering, we provide a transparent reverse proxy, which can be activated just by changing the inbound routing for a specific ip-address. That means, no dns changes are required - all http traffic is simply routed over the filter and gets locally redirected to the reverse proxy application. In order to filter layer7 attacks, we show the visitor a verification page, where the visitor needs to interact with - bots cant do that and get stopped by the filter. That works almost like Cloudflare, but without changing dns records or using a external solution - I would probably say, it works better too.

In order to provide valid ssl certificates, customers have the possibility to upload their own certificates within our customer area or over our api.

tmln

@Gam3over said:

@tmln said:
This is the worst provider I have seen in the past 15 years.
NEVER pay with Bitcoin!
Use Paypal so you can request for refund in case of troubles.
They have taken my Bitcoin and never activated the service.
Getting a ticket reply sometimes takes 1 week.

Other Discussion

Not really, people need to know how you treat your customers before they order.
I have paid you 32 days ago, you have basically taken my money and given me NO SERVICE and you refuse to refund.

Gam3over

@tmln said:

@Gam3over said:

@tmln said:
This is the worst provider I have seen in the past 15 years.
NEVER pay with Bitcoin!
Use Paypal so you can request for refund in case of troubles.
They have taken my Bitcoin and never activated the service.
Getting a ticket reply sometimes takes 1 week.

Other Discussion

Not really, people need to know how you treat your customers before they order.
I have paid you 32 days ago, you have basically taken my money and given me NO SERVICE and you refuse to refund.

Sorry but this is a Part of my TOS (you accepted them) ... and "No Service" is Wrong ...
People who do not know how to install a server. Give me an order to set up the server. Sorry that's really not funny.

Bitcoin and Paysafecard Payments are non-refundable, so the money has been returned to your Account Balance.

I wrote you private in Ticketcenter, you can resell your credit to other peoples to get your Money Back.

think what you want.

I have many customers who are very satisfied with my service.

sanvit

@Gam3over said:

@tmln said:

@Gam3over said:

@tmln said:
This is the worst provider I have seen in the past 15 years.
NEVER pay with Bitcoin!
Use Paypal so you can request for refund in case of troubles.
They have taken my Bitcoin and never activated the service.
Getting a ticket reply sometimes takes 1 week.

Other Discussion

Not really, people need to know how you treat your customers before they order.
I have paid you 32 days ago, you have basically taken my money and given me NO SERVICE and you refuse to refund.

Sorry but this is a Part of my TOS (you accepted them) ... and "No Service" is Wrong ...
People who do not know how to install a server. Give me an order to set up the server. Sorry that's really not funny.

Bitcoin and Paysafecard Payments are non-refundable, so the money has been returned to your Account Balance.

I wrote you private in Ticketcenter, you can resell your credit to other peoples to get your Money Back.

think what you want.

I have many customers who are very satisfied with my service.

Usually when people say credits are non-refundable, that implise in case the user wants a refund on the service. You didn't provide him/her the service due to a problem in your side wo IMO you should refund him using any available methods

Gam3over

@sanvit said:

@Gam3over said:

@tmln said:

@Gam3over said:

@tmln said:
This is the worst provider I have seen in the past 15 years.
NEVER pay with Bitcoin!
Use Paypal so you can request for refund in case of troubles.
They have taken my Bitcoin and never activated the service.
Getting a ticket reply sometimes takes 1 week.

Other Discussion

Not really, people need to know how you treat your customers before they order.
I have paid you 32 days ago, you have basically taken my money and given me NO SERVICE and you refuse to refund.

Sorry but this is a Part of my TOS (you accepted them) ... and "No Service" is Wrong ...
People who do not know how to install a server. Give me an order to set up the server. Sorry that's really not funny.

Bitcoin and Paysafecard Payments are non-refundable, so the money has been returned to your Account Balance.

I wrote you private in Ticketcenter, you can resell your credit to other peoples to get your Money Back.

think what you want.

I have many customers who are very satisfied with my service.

Usually when people say credits are non-refundable, that implise in case the user wants a refund on the service. You didn't provide him/her the service due to a problem in your side wo IMO you should refund him using any available methods

Not Right... He had ordered a VPS and Dedicated Servers.

he paid This With BTC ... BTC is not refundable ....

I am not a currency exchange, and had problems with the tax authority because of such things.

tmln

[delete]

tmln

But give me back the money for the dedicated servers, I'm not finding anyone to sell my credit, I paid YOU, YOU refund me!

Why do you keep advertising your services if you can't deliver? You want to scam more people?

First-Root

would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

IThinkUFailed

@Gam3over said:
Not Right... He had ordered a VPS and Dedicated Servers.

he paid This With BTC ... BTC is not refundable ....

I am not a currency exchange, and had problems with the tax authority because of such things.

No one has said you are a currency exchange but I will say you're a scammer as you're not willing to refund him when you've not delivered the services as advertised.

@FR_Michael said:
would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

I guarantee he doesn't have one - even if he did this wouldn't even apply as no service has been delivered.

First-Root

@FR_Michael said:
would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

I guarantee he doesn't have one - even if he did this wouldn't even apply as no service has been delivered.

I agree that there is no contract as he failed to deliver his part of the contract and therefore the tos are unimportant but I can't even find the bitcoin part in the tos.

debaser

I know that many service providers are a bit wary of refunds for clients that pay in Bitcoin. The most important reason for this is that you could be involved in a money laundering scheme. Clients who purchase a service with BTC and within a short time ask for a refund are a risk.

However, that doesn't seem to be the case here. I think I put it correctly when I say that the client ordered a VPS which he couldn't get installed. It's an unmanaged service, but to be fair: CLimited could have given him clear instructions. The dedicated server couldn't be delivered. So that's not something you can accuse the client of.

Just give the guy a refund. If you get blamed of money laundering or tax evasion you'll be able to produce the logs and communication with your former client to clear things up.

dfroe

We seem to have a similiar discussion here in two different threads..
As I already mentioned in the other thread:
https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/3019726/#Comment_3019726

@dfroe said:
In case of a withdrawal from a contract, the money must be refunded via exactly the same means of payment. That's the law. So if it was paid with Bitcoin, it must be refunded with Bitcoin, unless something different was agreed on without additional cost for the consumer.
This is simply the law here in Germany. §357 (3) BGB (German Civil Code)

So I doubt something like

@Gam3over said:
he paid This With BTC ... BTC is not refundable ....

has any legal correctness especially if it was not explicitly agreed on and mentioned in the terms.

I do not know enough yet about the background with the setup of the VPS. But if a dedicated server was ordered and simply could not be delivered, this will clearly result in a withdrawal from the contract in my opinion in which case exactly the same situation must be restored as it was before the contract which includes any Bitcoins to be refunded (as Bitcoins).

Ympker

@dfroe said:
We seem to have a similiar discussion here in two different threads..
As I already mentioned in the other thread:
https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/3019726/#Comment_3019726

@dfroe said:
In case of a withdrawal from a contract, the money must be refunded via exactly the same means of payment. That's the law. So if it was paid with Bitcoin, it must be refunded with Bitcoin, unless something different was agreed on without additional cost for the consumer.
This is simply the law here in Germany. §357 (3) BGB (German Civil Code)

So I doubt something like

@Gam3over said:
he paid This With BTC ... BTC is not refundable ....

has any legal correctness especially if it was not explicitly agreed on and mentioned in the terms.

I do not know enough yet about the background with the setup of the VPS. But if a dedicated server was ordered and simply could not be delivered, this will clearly result in a withdrawal from the contract in my opinion in which case exactly the same situation must be restored as it was before the contract which includes any Bitcoins to be refunded (as Bitcoins).

I believe it's a bit different if the customer has agreed to waive their right of withdrawal and accept the service be started immediately. But since neither seemed to have happened..BGB is pretty much where it's at.

dfroe

Ympker said: I believe it's a bit different if the customer has agreed to waive their right of withdrawal and accept the service be started immediately. But since neither seemed to have happened.

Yep, that's basically right, but in this particular case it wasn't the customer asking for the contract to be withdrawn but the provider simply failing to deliver.

If I am right both parties agreed on cancelling the service because the provider could not deliver but he is refusing to refund the Bitcoin and forces the customer to get only funds added to his account. Which is not acceptable.

Ympker

@dfroe said:

Ympker said: I believe it's a bit different if the customer has agreed to waive their right of withdrawal and accept the service be started immediately. But since neither seemed to have happened.

Yep, that's basically right, but in this particular case it wasn't the customer asking for the contract to be withdrawn but the provider simply failing to deliver.

If I am right both parties agreed on cancelling the service because the provider could not deliver but he is refusing to refund the Bitcoin and forces the customer to get only funds added to his account. Which is not acceptable.

In any case it might not hurt to send a Widerruf within 14 days of purchasing just to be safe. Tbh. the Epvp thread linked on their website isn't so much PR either imho:
https://www.elitepvpers.com/forum/web-host-server-trading/4270523-climited-de-starke-vserver-zu-besten-preisen-windows-linux.html
..and the Trustpilot..

@Gam3over I'd suggest you just go ahead and refund the chap before anyone else does more digging. Especially @teamacc , who is LETs inofficial detective of choice :P

cybertech

Trustpilot is already enough to sow distrust...

Gam3over

@tmln said:
But give me back the money for the dedicated servers, I'm not finding anyone to sell my credit, I paid YOU, YOU refund me!

Why do you keep advertising your services if you can't deliver? You want to scam more people?

Your VPS are delivered.

I have explained the subject several times now, which is why I will not comment now ...

I can recommend you if it does not suit you, you can take legal assistance.

Gam3over

@FR_Michael said:
would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

"Folgen des Widerrufs

Wenn Sie diesen Vertrag widerrufen, haben wir Ihnen alle Zahlungen, die wir von Ihnen erhalten haben, einschließlich der Lieferkosten (mit Ausnahme der zusätzlichen Kosten, die sich daraus ergeben, dass Sie eine andere Art der Lieferung als die von uns angebotene, günstigste Standardlieferung gewählt haben), unverzüglich und spätestens binnen vierzehn Tagen ab dem Tag zurückzuzahlen, an dem die Mitteilung über Ihren Widerruf dieses Vertrags bei uns eingegangen ist. Für diese Rückzahlung verwenden wir Guthaben, es sei denn, mit Ihnen wurde ausdrücklich etwas anderes vereinbart; in keinem Fall werden Ihnen wegen dieser Rückzahlung Entgelte berechnet.

**Die Erstattung erfolgt je nach gewählter Zahlungsmethode auf dem Gleichen Zahlungsweg zurück. Ausgenommen sind hierbei Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen, da diese mit hohen Gebühren verbunden sind und nicht auf dem gleichen Weg Erstattet werden können.

Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen werden als Guthaben erstattet**."

https://climited.de/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/26/Widerrufsbelehrung.html

ITLabs

@Gam3over said:

@tmln said:
But give me back the money for the dedicated servers, I'm not finding anyone to sell my credit, I paid YOU, YOU refund me!

Why do you keep advertising your services if you can't deliver? You want to scam more people?

Your VPS are delivered.

I have explained the subject several times now, which is why I will not comment now ...

I can recommend you if it does not suit you, you can take legal assistance.

He is (also) complaining about the server: https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/3019666/#Comment_3019666

So you won't deliver the server AND you won't refund the money AND you're suggesting that the customer spend more money hiring a lawyer?

dfroe

@Gam3over said:

@FR_Michael said:
would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

"Folgen des Widerrufs
[...]
https://climited.de/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/26/Widerrufsbelehrung.html

Nope. §357 (3) BGB says that the same means of payment must be used for the refund. A deviation from that is only valid if it was explicitly agreed on. Where in your order process to you obtain the agreement from your customer that other means of payment are accepted for refund? In your order process you only force to tick a checkbox that the customer agrees on your TOS (AGB) and privacy terms (Datenschutz). A different handling of Bitcoin is mentioned in none of them. Hiding this information on a page which isn't explicitly agreed on is not valid.

By the way, "refunding" money to a balance within a customer account is not allowed if the customer makes use of his right of withdrawal. The customer has the right to get his money paid out. This was outlined and judged by German Federal Court of Justice (Bundesgerichtshof) back in 2005 (Az: Viii ZR 382/04) (Handelsblatt)

TL;DR: You can write a sentence like "We refund money to your balance/funds" ("Für diese Rückzahlung verwenden wir Guthaben") wherever you want, it is simply not allowed according to German law.

First-Root

@Gam3over said:

@FR_Michael said:
would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

"Folgen des Widerrufs

Wenn Sie diesen Vertrag widerrufen, haben wir Ihnen alle Zahlungen, die wir von Ihnen erhalten haben, einschließlich der Lieferkosten (mit Ausnahme der zusätzlichen Kosten, die sich daraus ergeben, dass Sie eine andere Art der Lieferung als die von uns angebotene, günstigste Standardlieferung gewählt haben), unverzüglich und spätestens binnen vierzehn Tagen ab dem Tag zurückzuzahlen, an dem die Mitteilung über Ihren Widerruf dieses Vertrags bei uns eingegangen ist. Für diese Rückzahlung verwenden wir Guthaben, es sei denn, mit Ihnen wurde ausdrücklich etwas anderes vereinbart; in keinem Fall werden Ihnen wegen dieser Rückzahlung Entgelte berechnet.

**Die Erstattung erfolgt je nach gewählter Zahlungsmethode auf dem Gleichen Zahlungsweg zurück. Ausgenommen sind hierbei Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen, da diese mit hohen Gebühren verbunden sind und nicht auf dem gleichen Weg Erstattet werden können.

Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen werden als Guthaben erstattet**."

https://climited.de/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/26/Widerrufsbelehrung.html

This is not in your TOS and nowhere referenced during checkout so not part of the contract.

sanvit

@FR_Michael said:

@Gam3over said:

@FR_Michael said:
would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

"Folgen des Widerrufs

Wenn Sie diesen Vertrag widerrufen, haben wir Ihnen alle Zahlungen, die wir von Ihnen erhalten haben, einschließlich der Lieferkosten (mit Ausnahme der zusätzlichen Kosten, die sich daraus ergeben, dass Sie eine andere Art der Lieferung als die von uns angebotene, günstigste Standardlieferung gewählt haben), unverzüglich und spätestens binnen vierzehn Tagen ab dem Tag zurückzuzahlen, an dem die Mitteilung über Ihren Widerruf dieses Vertrags bei uns eingegangen ist. Für diese Rückzahlung verwenden wir Guthaben, es sei denn, mit Ihnen wurde ausdrücklich etwas anderes vereinbart; in keinem Fall werden Ihnen wegen dieser Rückzahlung Entgelte berechnet.

**Die Erstattung erfolgt je nach gewählter Zahlungsmethode auf dem Gleichen Zahlungsweg zurück. Ausgenommen sind hierbei Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen, da diese mit hohen Gebühren verbunden sind und nicht auf dem gleichen Weg Erstattet werden können.

Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen werden als Guthaben erstattet**."

https://climited.de/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/26/Widerrufsbelehrung.html

This is not in your TOS and nowhere referenced during checkout so not part of the contract.

Even if that's in the ToS, isn't this just keeping the client's money without providing useable service? I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that's against most country's consumer protection laws (and I heard Germany has a pretty good one too). Plus, this just looks like a dick move for me.

First-Root

@sanvit said:

@FR_Michael said:

@Gam3over said:

@FR_Michael said:
would you mind to point out where in your TOS we can find your "no refund on bitcoin" paragraph?

"Folgen des Widerrufs

Wenn Sie diesen Vertrag widerrufen, haben wir Ihnen alle Zahlungen, die wir von Ihnen erhalten haben, einschließlich der Lieferkosten (mit Ausnahme der zusätzlichen Kosten, die sich daraus ergeben, dass Sie eine andere Art der Lieferung als die von uns angebotene, günstigste Standardlieferung gewählt haben), unverzüglich und spätestens binnen vierzehn Tagen ab dem Tag zurückzuzahlen, an dem die Mitteilung über Ihren Widerruf dieses Vertrags bei uns eingegangen ist. Für diese Rückzahlung verwenden wir Guthaben, es sei denn, mit Ihnen wurde ausdrücklich etwas anderes vereinbart; in keinem Fall werden Ihnen wegen dieser Rückzahlung Entgelte berechnet.

**Die Erstattung erfolgt je nach gewählter Zahlungsmethode auf dem Gleichen Zahlungsweg zurück. Ausgenommen sind hierbei Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen, da diese mit hohen Gebühren verbunden sind und nicht auf dem gleichen Weg Erstattet werden können.

Bitcoin und Paysafecard Zahlungen werden als Guthaben erstattet**."

https://climited.de/index.php?rp=/knowledgebase/26/Widerrufsbelehrung.html

This is not in your TOS and nowhere referenced during checkout so not part of the contract.

Even if that's in the ToS, isn't this just keeping the client's money without providing useable service? I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure that's against most country's consumer protection laws (and I heard Germany has a pretty good one too). Plus, this just looks like a dick move for me.

I think @dfroe explained that. I am not a lawyer and cannot give any advice but if I were the customer I would pull my defence insurance and see if the provider got the balls to see if a judge follows his explaination.

limited

How does he still have a provider tag? I might as well create a company that sell a service, and never deliver the said service and nor offer a refund in the name of "I had problems with the tax authority because of such things".

This is literally the definition of scamming.

dfroe

Besides all those laws and court decisions there is of course also the Golden Rule of LET (which as a matter of course does not stand above the law, either): Don't be a dick. Also known as common sense.

This is how communities like LET work.

Not offending any particular person, we have seen people trying to scam other users from time to time, but if someone decides to leave the "Don't be a dick"-track then one should at least stay within the borders of law. In my humble opinion the thread between being a dick, violating the law, and (intentional) criminal behaviour is a very thin one.

IThinkUFailed

@limited said:
How does he still have a provider tag? I might as well create a company that sell a service, and never deliver the said service and nor offer a refund in the name of "I had problems with the tax authority because of such things".

This is literally the definition of scamming.

I think a lot of people are wondering that.