I forgot to cancel my PayPal subscription at Stockservers.

ITLabs

@Falzo said:
here you go

expectation vs reality

uptime

butterfish ...

AnthonySmith

tits on a fish = pointless/useless, much like an ashtray on a motorbike.

He laughed at his birthday present and said "I need that like a fish needs tits!"

ricardo

@AnthonySmith the irony being that the tits are customers in a number of cases.

Time to update the ToS with side case #1000001

joepie91

@Clouvider said:

@joepie91 said:

@Bopie said:
@joepie91 you do realize the subscription it not setup via our site and is setup with PayPal, PayPal just gives us the option to monitor that subscription to see if a payment is made, whmcs doesn't impliment this very well as standard and we have refunded the OP as he didn't have a service so we won't keep the money, we are looking into billing agreements but in the mean time we have disabled PayPal subscriptions.

I'd like to say this again, the customers does not agree to pay us they agree to pay PayPal, the subscription is setup on PayPal website as thus we are not the liable person, but either way PayPal tos explains all this.

Yes, I have been told several times now that technically the customer interacts directly with PayPal. I've also explained several times that that's an entirely irrelevant implementation detail.

It's good that you're looking into billing agreements now, but I want to be really clear about this: if you take PayPal subscriptions, and you integrate that into your payment flow, you absolutely are liable for any overcharges (in many jurisdictions), regardless of what the PayPal TOS say. PayPal TOS do not trump the law.

So am I equally liable if the Customer sets up a standing order with their bank to send money to me, and then forgets to cancel it ?

Sure, Customer deserves a refund, but that’s by no means my fault.

PayPal subscription is basically equal to a standing order with your bank.

I have said several times in this thread now - it's even referenced in the subthread that you're replying to! - that there is a difference between a wholly customer-initiated recurring payment, and one that is integrated into your payment flow as a provider. If it's integrated into your payment flow, you are liable. If it's customer-initiated, you are not.

It's really not all that difficult.

Lee

Wrong thread...

Clouvider

@joepie91 said:

@Clouvider said:

@joepie91 said:

@Bopie said:
@joepie91 you do realize the subscription it not setup via our site and is setup with PayPal, PayPal just gives us the option to monitor that subscription to see if a payment is made, whmcs doesn't impliment this very well as standard and we have refunded the OP as he didn't have a service so we won't keep the money, we are looking into billing agreements but in the mean time we have disabled PayPal subscriptions.

I'd like to say this again, the customers does not agree to pay us they agree to pay PayPal, the subscription is setup on PayPal website as thus we are not the liable person, but either way PayPal tos explains all this.

Yes, I have been told several times now that technically the customer interacts directly with PayPal. I've also explained several times that that's an entirely irrelevant implementation detail.

It's good that you're looking into billing agreements now, but I want to be really clear about this: if you take PayPal subscriptions, and you integrate that into your payment flow, you absolutely are liable for any overcharges (in many jurisdictions), regardless of what the PayPal TOS say. PayPal TOS do not trump the law.

So am I equally liable if the Customer sets up a standing order with their bank to send money to me, and then forgets to cancel it ?

Sure, Customer deserves a refund, but that’s by no means my fault.

PayPal subscription is basically equal to a standing order with your bank.

I have said several times in this thread now - it's even referenced in the subthread that you're replying to! - that there is a difference between a wholly customer-initiated recurring payment, and one that is integrated into your payment flow as a provider. If it's integrated into your payment flow, you are liable. If it's customer-initiated, you are not.

It's really not all that difficult.

Standing Order is initiated into my payment flow. And I'm not liable.

I'm only liable for Direct Debit which is the one that I request the charges from the Customer account and not where the Customer has some agreement with their bank to send me money every X days.

As you can see there are clear comparisons - Standing Order - PayPal Subscription - setup at request of the payer to pay every X days, agreement between the payer and PayPal.

Direct Debit - PAyPal Billing Agreements - Customer gives permission to charge account for any amount at any time, within contract naturally.

Now, with standing orders or PayPal subscriptions - the Customer would be at fault if the charges go out when the Customer didn't want them to go out but didn't cancel the instruction with their bank (PayPal).

With Direct Debits - we would be at fault if we charged the Customer after legally we shouldn't have, there are certain rules around it, which you can research yourself, that might result in us bearing consequences and ultimately being excluded from the scheme if this is abused.

This really is simple. You're trying to write too, much into it.

lazyt

I keep seeing this arguement. Yet I have never went to PayPal and told them to send anyone money automagically I've had subscriptions show up on my account.

It's not been as bad as it was but there are still providers that try to slide them past you.

chickendippers

Bopie said: Now for us to cancel their subscription we have to navigate to there service and click the cancel subscription for them, This is bad for us because imagine if we had to go through every cancellation request and look to see if they had a subscription and cancel it, Well this would mean a lot of time wasted when PayPal state that the buyer should keep track.

Provided the relevant option is activated in your configuration, WHMCS can automatically cancel the PayPal subscription when a client places the cancellation request:

https://docs.whmcs.com/PayPal#Automatic_Subscription_Management
https://docs.whmcs.com/Invoice_Tab#Automatic_Subscription_Management

uptime

@chickendippers said:
Provided the relevant option is activated in your configuration, WHMCS can automatically cancel the PayPal subscription when a client places the cancellation request:

https://docs.whmcs.com/PayPal#Automatic_Subscription_Management
https://docs.whmcs.com/Invoice_Tab#Automatic_Subscription_Management

hello @chickendippers welcome to this epic thread that refuses to die and thank you for the helpful contribution, which echoes some discussion from the previous page, which you may be interested to read as well

@AnthonySmith said:

NDTN said: @Bopie WHMCS implemented the feature that will cancel the subscription automatically when the clients place the cancellation request. It's under (General Settings -> Invoices -> https://prnt.sc/oqsub0 ). But it will only cancel the subscription that the clients setup during the order, it will not cancel >the subscription that they setup when they renew the service.
Paypal subscription is a headache for us too. Looking into the Billing agreement now but it >seems only one: https://marketplace.whmcs.com/product/330
Anyone tried this module?

Dont use it, i tried it in responce to peoples inability to be accountable for their own lives.

The net result was 5 customers with data loss in less than 2 months.

Because paypal only allows 1 subscription per company and WHMCS is shit at handling multiple products and 1 subscription that ONLY works if a customer only has 1 service EVER which is actually pretty uncommon.

So what happens is, customer has 2 or 3 services, has 1 subscription updated to cover them all, customer cancels 1 product, WHMCS module cancels whole subscription, 2 weeks after termination the customer opens a WTF ticket saying "WHY DID YOU CANCEL MY SUBSCRIPTION"

and it wasn't too much after that when this thread became all about the usefulness of tits on a fish.

Can you imagine that?

fishtitties!

raindog308

@uptime said:
I had no idea ...

I’m coming to the conclusion that every single animated show for adults is stupid beyond words.