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I forgot to cancel my PayPal subscription at Stockservers.
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Oh god I just made a big mistake. Sorry guys.
When I click on restore thread it actually removed the comments as well. I want to restore the thread title only but never know it restored the whole thing.
EDIT: After I made one comment the thread become normal again lol - Vanilla
@FAT32 that confused me what thread got removed
@webclouddev His account did not get deleted I have access to it but he doesn't, This happened when he opened up a PayPal dispute instead of contacting us via ticket, The reason for this is so that a customer cannot change any account information on their side to hide anything, It gives us access to there account so we can still provide any information needed in the dispute.
i thought the same but the way op said i thought his account was deleted/blocked before PP dispute but now its clear
op made a mistake instead of solving this matter via ticket he opened PP dispute
Looks like someone just fell off the turnip truck.
Definitely not understanding subscription with PayPal
Its just to easy to blame someone else, that's society now a days.
@webclouddev I think maybe he had an issue signing in to his account I don't think he was wrong but his account is 100% not deleted so why he couldn't access I don't know.
@IThinkUFailed Honestly we only did it as we had already got our servers being built in the DC and we were approached to ask for a special offer for 4th July, We don't normally do pre-orders but we did try to make it as clear as possible it would take some time to deliver which included a mandatory checkbox on the order to say it will take 7 days to deliver the server and that the order was a pre-order.
You thought the provider canceled your Paypal subscription as well. You have to do that yourself!
This is why our schools are failing, No one can read and understand anything past a first grade level.
Paypal is a secondary payment processor. You make agreements with them not the person accepting them.
When the Cable company ,or what ever, signs you up they take your money directly. They do not use a secondary processor, which gives them the ability to cancel recurring payments. Companies using Paypal do not have this because it is your account, not theirs. They can not access anything, and you have to approve everything. Which also means you have cancel everything.
If you do not like it choose some one else to handle your online transactions.
It is exactly the same thing as using BillPay from your bank. If you setup a recurring amount from say your cell phone company, the bank will pay them every month the exact amount you tell until you cancel it. YOU have to cancel not the bank, or the cell phone company. There is no bank anywhere that will take a request to cancel a payment from the person being paid, it has to come from the customer in question.
So simple a child can understand it, but they don't anymore.
Pumpkin Positive. :-|
If only PayPal had an area in their dashboard where people could cancel their ongoing subscriptions...
/sarcasm
And big hat tip to @AuroraZ - I could not agree more.
Legally, if a sum of money is accidentally paid into your bank/paypal or savings account and you know it doesn't belong to you, then you must pay it back ( without interest of course ). It's also in your interest to make sure that this money is refunded asap because if you keep it, like you seem to have done with the customer that didn't notice for years you are required to pay taxes on that income while the ex customer is still legally entitled to get his money back from you at any point.
In your case this matters even more when I look at your annual report and your multi-pound business.
And good luck explaining random payments without providing a service for them from multiple sources over a prolonged time to the tax authority. I am pretty sure there are money laundering laws in your country as well. You better never make enough money to get a tax audit brother.
I wonder why you don't have checks in place that prevent something like this since you could automate that over the PayPal API to see if a payment comes from a known customer or not.
I wouldn't go with you as a host if I knew that all your assets can be frozen and you not being able to pay for servers or whatever keeps your business running because you don't care about random payments going into your PayPal for years by unknown people/ accounts and you seem to be fine with that.
It would be easy for someone to send you a single dollar each month tied to a criminal action like credit card fraud and have all your assets frozen until a criminal investigation is finished if they want to harm your business. That's just a matter of when and not if.
Sometimes I ask myself how some providers here have been able to run a business for years and not be in jail yet.
Eh, sorry, but this is nonsense. Paypal is a payment method on which the seller instantiates a subscription, to which the customer agrees. For every other payment method - including for PayPal, when the provider sets up their billing correctly - the seller then also terminates the subscription once the service is terminated. In fact, in quite a few countries it is illegal not to do so.
I realize that hosting providers tend to be the most vocal on here, but no, it is absolutely not the responsibility of the buyer to terminate their subscription. That you as the provider are not correctly sending unsubscribe calls to PayPal is your problem, because you choose to do business with PayPal for taking payments, it is your integration with their service, and your service being sold.
The customer is only doing business with you, and making use of a payment gateway provided by a party that you have outsourced payment handling to.
So a provider is just suppose to know when a customer stops using their service?
To use the cable analogy from earlier... if I never turn my TV on for a month, do I get to sue the cable company for charging me for cable during that month?
Whether you use their service is irrelevant. What's relevant is whether you are still purchasing the service. Once you've put in your cancellation request, that is the point where the seller is expected to terminate the payment subscription. This is no different for a cable provider.
Think of it this way. For the sake of convenience, you have your bank send a check to your landlord every month for rent. One day, you decide to move but you don't tell the bank to stop sending your rent check. So, the next month, to your surprise, you see that bank sent a check to your old landlord.
Do you blame the landlord for not contacting the bank to tell them you don't live there any longer?
So a client has no responsibility to take care of their own money?
I would be really, really, really curious to know if when submitting the cancellation some where in that process did it say something to the effect of "if you paid with a PayPal subscription be sure to cancel that subscription with PayPal."
C'mon people... take some responsibility. Don't blame someone else when you forgot to take care of your own finances. Check your credit card statement monthly. Know what you're paying and what you're not suppose to be paying. If you canceled a service and it shows up on your credit card or PayPal statement, contact that company - find out why. If you didn't cancel the service... there's your problem!
This analogy makes no sense. Setting up the subscription in that scenario was something you intentionally and voluntarily did, directly under contract with your own bank. The bank is not acting as a payment processor for your landlord.
This is not true for hosting plans, where you are using the gateway provided to you by the hosting provider, operating under their contract with the payment processor. That makes it their responsibility, and this is how it works for literally every other service where the seller initiates the subscription (which is why people expect it here).
You didn't log into your PayPal account when you created the subscription? Even if you stay logged into your PayPal account constantly (which probably isn't a good thing to do) that still technically constitutes "logging into" your PayPal account.
Whether you logged into an account is 100% irrelevant to what I said. I log into my e-banking too for making payments to sellers (via iDeal), and that doesn't magically make it my responsibility to cancel automatic bank charges either. It's ultimately the seller deciding and making charges, regardless of the implementation details, and people's expectations align accordingly.
But that's exactly what Paypal is doing in this case and they say as much when you set up the subscription. No disrespect, have you ever set one up? The earlier BillPay analogy is on point.
Not tru> @joepie91 said:
The Paypal subscription is a push, not a pull. In order to subscribe, the purchaser has to log in to PayPal and agree that it is okay for PayPal to SEND the money to the seller. The seller does not get direct access to the PayPal account and, therefore, cannot cancel the subscription on their end. So, yes, this is something the purchaser did intentionally with PayPal. In my analogy, PayPal, like the bank, is SENDING payment as requested by the customer. In both cases, the customer is the only one allowed to cancel the send.
This is why, now, PayPal has billing agreements, which, as I understand, would allow for the seller to cancel a payment arrangement.
Yes, I have quite a few PayPal subscriptions set up. The process looks like a payment gateway, where you would expect the seller to manage the subscription.
Then, quite simply, the seller is using the wrong API (which, once again, is their problem). If you use the recurring charges API (I forgot the exact name it has, Billing Agreements?), you can cancel subscriptions just fine as a seller. There's an API endpoint for it like for everything else.
Edit:
Correct.
To answer your analogy.
The bank executed the payment. Just like PayPal did.
But yes, the landlord is legally required in almost any country to notice the bank that there is a wrong payment in his account that he has no right keeping because the tenant is no longer renting his property. Or he could contact the tenant if he still has a line of contact and ask where to send back the money.
You don't get to keep "free money" because the tenant forgets to cancel his auto-payment for a service that the tenant terminated in time and you no longer have a legal base to get those monthly payments for.
It's your responsibility to regularly check your account for wrong payments it's also in most ToS at almost any bank I've been at in multiple countries.
Come on guys, common sense?
Do WHCMS and the other billing systems automatically cancel a subscription when the product is terminated? Do they have this facility for Paypal?
Do not feed the trolls...
Ah, carry on, it's too late anyway.
You're arguing a different point. This user lost his shit because the money came out not because Bopie wasn't going to refund it.
I believe that @Francisco is using the Billing Agreements API, and presumably that means he can also cancel the subscription when terminating a service. I don't know whether he actually does.
I suspect that most providers use a billing module that doesn't use this API. Ultimately it's all down to the billing module you use for PayPal, really.
As someone stated earlier, it may be the case that Billing Agreements ( i was using the wrong term) aren't an option for all sellers, as they would have the power to pull money from accounts. If this were extended to some unscrupulous vendors, they could abuse this and steal from their customers, as there appears to be no fixed amount or time frame set on a billing agreement, unlike a subscription.
https://www.paypal.com/uk/smarthelp/article/what-is-a-billing-agreement-and-how-does-it-work-faq1848
Sure, but that is ultimately the seller's problem, as they are choosing to contract with PayPal for handling their payments (from PayPal accounts and/or CCs). Which means that the seller needs to either do the work required to qualify for it, or convince PayPal to let them cancel non-Billing-Agreement subscriptions.
This is a pretty basic principle in consumer law almost everywhere; the consumer (in B2C transactions) contracts with a single party, and that single party (the seller) is responsible for making sure that their suppliers and service providers do the correct thing, not the consumer. How to make that happen is for the seller to figure out, and any liability for doing the wrong thing lies with the seller.