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Cogent vs HE.net?
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Cogent vs HE.net?

sanvitsanvit Member
edited July 2019 in Help

Hi there! I was doing some tests, and found out that (at least according to the looking glass) when I connect with IPv4, I'm routed via Cogent while with IPv6, I'm routed via HE.net (Vultr Tokyo -> mrVM Las Vegas). This seems to be same for other Vultr locations as well. So when communicating, which carrier will be faster/stable (asia (HK/JP) to mrVM as well as los angeles/seattle to mrVM)?

Thanks!

Edit : I'm going to put CF in front of it so it's more of a cf <-> cogent vs cf <-> HE

Thanked by 1uptime

Comments

  • attarattar Member

    HE has positioned themselves as a central player in the IPv6 arena, unlike IPv4. Many IPv6 connections transit HE's network that would bypass it if sent via IPv4, in large part due to HE peering with every carrier they can via IPv6, while most carriers have barely any IPv6 peering.

    Thanked by 2mrTom greentea
  • sanvitsanvit Member

    @attar said:
    HE has positioned themselves as a central player in the IPv6 arena, unlike IPv4. Many IPv6 connections transit HE's network that would bypass it if sent via IPv4, in large part due to HE peering with every carrier they can via IPv6, while most carriers have barely any IPv6 peering.

    So you mean that with IPv6, all traffic will route through HE, while with v4 network will route through less-congested line?

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    HE.net has a low-latency route from Singapore to France (Marseille), and then further to Europe, and Cogent isn't known to, or doesn't use it as much for public traffic. So if you try to stay with HE (I guess you can control this by mainly using IPv6), you can find that your latency from Asia to Europe is lower.

    Not sure about the LA/LV/Seattle side. As for CF, I don't think it will matter, they will have good connectivity to both.

    Thanked by 1Daniel15
  • sanvitsanvit Member

    @rm_ said:
    HE.net has a low-latency route from Singapore to France (Marseille), and then further to Europe, and Cogent isn't known to, or doesn't use it as much for public traffic. So if you try to stay with HE (I guess you can control this by mainly using IPv6), you can find that your latency from Asia to Europe is lower.

    Not sure about the LA/LV/Seattle side. As for CF, I don't think it will matter, they will have good connectivity to both.

    So CF to mrVM shouldn't have much difference? Thanks for the info :)

  • HarambeHarambe Member, Host Rep

    LA/LV doesn't matter, both will be quick. Seattle/LV is better over HE in my experience, but cogent should be fine as well on those short west coast runs.

    If this is a NAT VPS then I'd suggest sticking with v6 to avoid potential problems with that shared v4 (ddos, broken port forwarding, etc).

    Thanked by 2sanvit Daniel15
  • uptimeuptime Member
    edited July 2019

    The first thing that comes to mind when I see the terms "iPv6" "Cogent" and "HE" occuring together in a paragraph is some long-standing IPv6 peering disputes ... which I don't know too much about other than it may still be a thing.

  • rubenruben Member, Host Rep
    edited July 2019

    HE is undoubtedly the leader in regards to IPv6. Apart from that they don't peer with HE - but Cogent does also not peer with Google (?).
    If you intend to enable CF I recommend sticking with v6 and HE. Cloudflare and HE are both present at over 200 Internet Exchange Points and to my knowledge are also peered on there.

    while with v4 network will route through less-congested line?

    Try it out, make a mtr on different days and times and you will see how much loss you have..

    Thanked by 2uptime sanvit
  • sanvitsanvit Member

    @Harambe said:
    LA/LV doesn't matter, both will be quick. Seattle/LV is better over HE in my experience, but cogent should be fine as well on those short west coast runs.

    If this is a NAT VPS then I'd suggest sticking with v6 to avoid potential problems with that shared v4 (ddos, broken port forwarding, etc).

    Thanks! v6 does seem to be better given that v4 is shared, which may cause problems for softwares that are not intended to be run on NAT environments.

    @uptime said:
    The first thing that comes to mind when I see the terms "iPv6" "Cogent" and "HE" occuring together in a paragraph is some long-standing IPv6 peering disputes ... which I don't know too much about other than it may still be a thing.

    Cogent doesn't peer with HE on v6? That's a bummer :(

    @ruben said:

    while with v4 network will route through less-congested line?

    Try it out, make a mtr on different days and times and you will see how much loss you have..

    Will try this. Thanks :)

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • FHRFHR Member, Host Rep

    sanvit said: Cogent doesn't peer with HE on v6? That's a bummer

    Not just that they don't peer, they both provide incomplete internet. Cogent can't reach HE and HE can't reach Cogent (over v6).

    I wouldn't want to be single homed to either of these providers.

    Anyway, latency is not everything and doesn't tell the whole story. Stuff like packet loss or congestion is something that you won't notice just by comparing latencies (unless it's extremely bad)

    Thanked by 2sanvit uptime
  • sanvitsanvit Member

    @FHR said:

    sanvit said: Cogent doesn't peer with HE on v6? That's a bummer

    Not just that they don't peer, they both provide incomplete internet. Cogent can't reach HE and HE can't reach Cogent (over v6).

    Holly shit! That really sucks :(

    If I connect to a cogent single-homed server from a HE single-homed server, will it fall back to IPv4, or just return no route and fail?

  • sanvitsanvit Member

    I did some iperf to cloudflare.com and HE seems to have better bandwidth to CF (getting around 20-40Mbps through cogent while getting constant 50-60Mbps through HE)

  • rubenruben Member, Host Rep

    sanvit said: If I connect to a cogent single-homed server from a HE single-homed server, will it fall back to IPv4, or just return no route and fail?

    If your destination has both an A and AAAA record it should fall back to IPv4.
    HE and Cogent don't peer on IPv4 either but at least the route it over Telia.

    Thanked by 2uptime sanvit
  • First-RootFirst-Root Member, Host Rep
    edited July 2019

    @FHR said:

    I wouldn't want to be single homed to either of these providers.

    Let me correct that for you: "I wouldn't want to be singled homed."

    Thanked by 2uptime ruben
  • uptimeuptime Member

    Man ... I'm glad to have even just a single home, even sharing rent with a couple people it's not cheap!

    All these multi-home providers must be making bank.

  • Cogent sucks never saw so manny hops in my life of running.

  • PureVoltagePureVoltage Member, Patron Provider

    @failhostings said:
    Cogent sucks never saw so manny hops in my life of running.

    The amount of hops doesn't really matter, some providers hide this using mpls.

    Thanked by 2failhostings rm_
  • BKKHKBKKHK Member
    edited July 2019

    Cogent vs HE.net?

    Trash vs Garbage?

    Try CenturyLink (Level 3), Opentransit (Orange), PCCW, Zayo or Telia.

    These 5 know how to properly run a network. The rest is trash.

  • FHRFHR Member, Host Rep

    @BKKHK said:
    These 5 know how to properly run a network. The rest is trash.

    I would probably pick Cogent over Zayo for transit.

    Each provider sucks - they only suck in different ways.

  • PureVoltagePureVoltage Member, Patron Provider

    Zayo had a nice network when we used them, however the company as a whole sucked as FHR said they all suck at the end of the day in their own ways.

    Thanked by 1techhelper1
  • failhostingsfailhostings Member
    edited July 2019

    @PureVoltage said:

    @failhostings said:
    Cogent sucks never saw so manny hops in my life of running.

    The amount of hops doesn't really matter, some providers hide this using mpls.

    even if that when i see cogent in my traceroutes i always notice higher ms times.
    what about retn guys? they start to be really nice in europe and asia .

  • qpsqps Member, Host Rep

    PureVoltage said: Zayo had a nice network when we used them

    Their network is extremely dependent on where you are located. It is much stronger in some cities than in others. This is much more obvious than most of the other options.

    Thanked by 1techhelper1
  • Daniel15Daniel15 Veteran
    edited August 2019

    Personally I'd pick HE over Cogent. I've had better experiences with HE.

    For a NAT VPS, definitely use just the IPv6 if possible. That'll work fine with Cloudflare. I've got some NAT VPSes and never use the NAT IPv4. All the internet providers I use have native IPv6 (both at work and at home) and I can just use Cloudflare if I need to host a site that has to be accessible over IPv4.

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