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In defense of deadpool VPS providers
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In defense of deadpool VPS providers

Noob here, only a few LEB boxes for projects, so my opinion may not carry much weight. I've had 3 boxes from the lowenddeadpool.info list. Two have locked up solid and couldn't be reinstalled.

Names... Okay. Umax was my first death. One attempt at a support ticket and I gave up and cancelled the account. Don't be stupid like me.

Next death was N3. They actually came clean with me and told me they were having "resource problems". So look, when the provider is being straight with you, don't be a dick to them! I told them for $15/year, we expect overselling and that these things happen. And you know what? They moved my VM and got me going again. Just because someone is on the deadpool list doesn't mean they're evil. So yah, I'm happy with N3.

My best theory about why this happens comes from thinking... what would I do if I was (over)selling VMs? I'd start stacking up the VMs on a server and watch how the loading went over a few weeks. When it was full-ish, I'd start loading up the next server. Now imagine one of the clowns on that first server decided he suddenly wanted to install a bunch of stuff. Boom, disk full.

So, my suggestion is: When you get a new box, install everything immediately and use up as much disk as you're planning on using. Or set up a file-based file system to reserve the space you know you'll need in the future. This will help the provider get the right number of clients on their server.

Don't blame it all on the provider! If you're buying LEB OpenVZ servers, you're smart enough to help the guy on the other side make sure you both win. As long as he's not a complete crook ;)

As I said, just a theory. Just something to keep in mind when you're going cheap.

Comments

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    The end is cheap.

    Thanked by 1Letzien
  • MikeAMikeA Member, Patron Provider

    @ephelps said:
    Don't blame it all on the provider!

    Yes

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep
    edited April 2019

    ephelps said: Don't blame it all on the provider!

    As a provider, I hate to say it but it's 100% on the provider if they deadpool. You can't blame the clients for how a person manages and runs a company. As for overselling, if the providers are overselling (and they should be to optimize efficiency) they need to be prepared and have systems in place to prevent abuse and avoid their business decision from impacting clients.

    If you want to know the real reason why providers deadpool, here are the most common causes:

    1) Bad management - The owner(s) don't have the technical knowledge to run the company and they don't give the techs the tools/resources to run it or they have the technical knowledge but not the business knowledge/experience.

    2) Greed - Accepting every client that comes your way isn't a good thing. Putting money before your clients is always a bad thing. Providers shouldn't be afraid of "firing" clients who impact other clients or hurt the company.

    3) Racing to the bottom - Just because you can get away with selling something for $1 today doesn't mean you should.

    In the end, when a provider deadpools it hurts more people than just the employees and the clients, it affects other providers. It pisses me off to see companies deadpool because it breeds distrust in other providers in that same market. In the past people would cancel our services because we were "too cheap for production" basing that off other providers who have failed regardless of what our history has proven.

    So yes, please hold the providers accountable for their decisions, they do not deserve a free pass if they deadpool out of the blue with little to no notice, no refunds, and no real information.

  • this kind of posts make me want get a reseller and pull an oversell because some people are very generous with their money

    Thanked by 1Chuck
  • ChuckChuck Member
    edited April 2019

    about Umax issue. If you know how to write in chinese (not google translate). Just yell at them in chinese, they would fix your issue.

    I got a chinese "friend" open support ticket in chinese, I don't know what he wrote... Anyway my Umax server works again. Before I couldn't SSH into server.

  • Nah. Sorry but its your first post. You come on here and some how try to provide a defense for those that deadpool and run off with peoples money, info. From what i gather youre saying the customer needs to run their server to the limit so the provider better understands node load and adjusts.

    Kujoe puts that notion to sleep above ^. You cant defend people who steal and if they have that intention from the begining or know theyre going down but milk it for all its worth then its not because the customer did help them out.

  • Corbpie and KuJoe, good points. There's more than just people like me who are willing to trade reliability for lower prices. I'd even guess reliability is way more important to most people. So most people should listen to you, not me. Still, LEB/LET lets us all decide where on that reliability/price scale we're comfortable. I've got AWS and Azure boxes on one end, and deadpools on the other end. They all have their uses.

    Thanked by 1corbpie
  • much troll

    such wow

    Thanked by 1NobodyInteresting
  • AmitzAmitz Member
    edited April 2019

    ephelps said: LEB/LET lets us all decide where on that reliability/price scale we're comfortable.

    I know, both caves are run by the same cavemen, but please do not put LET und LEB in the same sentence when it comes to reliability that they offer for your decision.

    LEB has no more credibility. That site is only there to fraud some money out of people and is run in a way that is close (if not already there) to criminal activity. Do not trust LEB.

    LET at least still has some of the old members with antennas for fraudsters and, fortunately, they are still allowed to raise their voice. Nobody knows for how long we will still allowed to be like this, but for the moment, LET > LEB when it comes to reliability of opinions. Also thanks to a great Mod/Admin team who give a fuck about their factual bosses and their shady business practices.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran

    KuJoe said: As a provider, I hate to say it but it's 100% on the provider if they deadpool.

    Usually this.

    You have a lot of providers that they explode in growth on some silly plan they offered, and then spin out of control in costs among other things. Hiformance is a prime example of this. They had some super popular plans, but they had to stack the shit high to try to make the numbers work.

    The shit started to smell, so they tried to give even bigger and better deals, and quickly jumped Roto-Rooter deep into the 3 year pricing and every sales post being 2x the resources of the previous one.

    Things stank so bad in the end though that even the $50/3year for a 16GB KVM wouldn't sell, so they ditched.

    Growing at a controlled rate isn't the worst thing in the world.

    Francisco

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @Francisco said:
    Growing at a controlled rate isn't the worst thing in the world.

    This is a excellent advice. When we first went live we exploded and it was the most painful and expensive experience for us. We because profitable immediately but spent so much money and time playing catch-up and fixing mistakes we made and learning new things every day it took us a long time before any of us saw a decent paycheck. If we didn't have the funds available and the hours to spend we would have deadpooled in the first year. In the first few months we would literally rent hotel rooms next to our first data center for whole weekends just to rack new hardware or fix issues to sustain the constant orders we were not ready for.

  • angstromangstrom Moderator

    It's one thing to be realistic about unrealistic offers from deadpool VPS providers; it's quite another thing to defend deadpool VPS providers. The former is desirable; the latter is not.

    Thanked by 1poisson
  • Gonna think about Amitz LET>LEB assertion. Honestly never thought about it, but probably right.

    I've been considering deadpools as being more like what KuJoe described: experiencing growing pains. But the consensus here is that they're more like what Fransisco says: criminally incompetent.

    Not backing down from point that deadpools have their uses, but I'm willing to personally bump my budget to get more reliable project boxes. So in that, y'all win.

    But there's a thriving market for low cost 99% reliable boxes. I'm part of that market and I just don't hear people from my side. How would a good provider make a sales pitch to a guy with my priorities? Project/throwaway boxes sold by the month that get reprovisioned each month? Or maybe advertise what long-term things will run nicely on e.g., 1CPU/1GB to convince people they should run a small machine on a good provider rather than a big machine on a bad one? Make a clear lossless upgrade path so people don't feel the need to buy unrealistic specs up front? Or a lossless downgrade path so they don't feel trapped? Pro's don't need any of this, just people like me who keep the gutter market alive.

  • WebProjectWebProject Host Rep, Veteran

    When you get a new box, install everything immediately and use up as much disk as you're planning on using.

    Simply create a dummy files with decent size to reserve the storage space.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    AKA Unix ISO

  • It's sad when the victim excuses the abuser.

  • @TimboJones said:
    It's sad when the victim excuses the abuser.

    Happens enough to get its own name: Stockholm syndrome

  • I get what OP is saying in that some of us are happy to pay rock bottom prices and expect it to be unreliable. I remember back in the day having shell accounts on friend's Linux boxes and it would often go down or something.

    There is a difference between the outright criminal and the genuine hosts that happen to go out of business, what really matters is the way that it ends.

    Sure alpharacks sucks and all but I still have a $5/year vps from them that hasn't gone down once, and to me that's exceeded my expectations.

    Same goes with the 49 cents a year hosting, it's got horrible uptime if you expect to have it hosting a business website or something, but if you just wanted something to play with occasionally and won't get too mad if it's down when you go to use it, what's the harm?

    In saying all that, when it comes to hosting things that actually matter, you just can't expect it to work out and you need to find something in a higher price/quality bracket.. outside of the hobbyist-grade bracket that most of these leb hosts fall into, as long as they aren't outright scams.

    Thanked by 1dontknow
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    dahartigan said: In saying all that, when it comes to hosting things that actually matter, you just can't expect it to work out and you need to find something in a higher price/quality bracket.. outside of the hobbyist-grade bracket that most of these leb hosts fall into

    And this is the exact problem I'm talking about. The "you get what you pay for" mentality is hurting legitimate providers who opt to charge less for their services to make them affordable for more people.

    You're paying actual money for "horrible uptime"? Why would you encourage/support that? If my free web hosting companies had less than 99.9% uptime I would be ashamed of myself, why are companies who are getting paid more than me fine with having less uptime than me and how do you as a customer feel about paying money for "horrible uptime" when my free web hosting clients have had nearly 100% uptime since it went live?

    Thanked by 2HaendlerIT vimalware
  • ChuckChuck Member

    shit lowendbox criminal hosts.

    look at this lowendbox SSD I/O

    https://serverscope.io/trials/X2NB

    3.13 MB/s

    0.88 MB/s

  • @Chuck said:
    shit lowendbox criminal hosts.

    look at this lowendbox SSD I/O

    https://serverscope.io/trials/X2NB

    3.13 MB/s

    0.88 MB/s

    Hostflyte? Wow

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @Chuck said:
    shit lowendbox criminal hosts.

    look at this lowendbox SSD I/O

    https://serverscope.io/trials/X2NB

    3.13 MB/s

    0.88 MB/s

    Looks throttled.

  • ChuckChuck Member
    edited April 2019

    @cybertech said:

    @Chuck said:
    shit lowendbox criminal hosts.

    look at this lowendbox SSD I/O

    https://serverscope.io/trials/X2NB

    3.13 MB/s

    0.88 MB/s

    Hostflyte? Wow

    KVM SSD fking scum host.
    I open Support Ticket. They keep saying "we are working on it" for 2 weeks.

  • lonealonea Member, Host Rep

    The problem is these providers are killing the industry as a whole.

    $1 / VPS ? No problem!

  • @dahartigan said:
    I get what OP is saying in that some of us are happy to pay rock bottom prices and expect it to be unreliable. I remember back in the day having shell accounts on friend's Linux boxes and it would often go down or something.

    There is a difference between the outright criminal and the genuine hosts that happen to go out of business, what really matters is the way that it ends.

    Sure alpharacks sucks and all but I still have a $5/year vps from them that hasn't gone down once, and to me that's exceeded my expectations.

    Same goes with the 49 cents a year hosting, it's got horrible uptime if you expect to have it hosting a business website or something, but if you just wanted something to play with occasionally and won't get too mad if it's down when you go to use it, what's the harm?

    In saying all that, when it comes to hosting things that actually matter, you just can't expect it to work out and you need to find something in a higher price/quality bracket.. outside of the hobbyist-grade bracket that most of these leb hosts fall into, as long as they aren't outright scams.

    The only time I see the best effort support disclaimers are on the $3/year nat services, which is totally fair.

    Otherwise, if you advertise 24/7 support and 99.9% uptime, you're NOT putting out the same support expectation. Fuck, hiformance advertised a phone support line (that went no where).

    As for paying for higher services, I've been sending bare metal deals to a friend paying for a box with Rackspace, probably 5-10X price of LET offers. He liked the phone aspect and that Rackspace isn't going anywhere soon.

    Last week, something happened and now his IPs are marked as residential and his mail server is getting fucked. I'll have to ask him what happened after that and if / how he resolved it.

    Thanked by 1dahartigan
  • @TimboJones said:

    @dahartigan said:
    I get what OP is saying in that some of us are happy to pay rock bottom prices and expect it to be unreliable. I remember back in the day having shell accounts on friend's Linux boxes and it would often go down or something.

    There is a difference between the outright criminal and the genuine hosts that happen to go out of business, what really matters is the way that it ends.

    Sure alpharacks sucks and all but I still have a $5/year vps from them that hasn't gone down once, and to me that's exceeded my expectations.

    Same goes with the 49 cents a year hosting, it's got horrible uptime if you expect to have it hosting a business website or something, but if you just wanted something to play with occasionally and won't get too mad if it's down when you go to use it, what's the harm?

    In saying all that, when it comes to hosting things that actually matter, you just can't expect it to work out and you need to find something in a higher price/quality bracket.. outside of the hobbyist-grade bracket that most of these leb hosts fall into, as long as they aren't outright scams.

    The only time I see the best effort support disclaimers are on the $3/year nat services, which is totally fair.

    Otherwise, if you advertise 24/7 support and 99.9% uptime, you're NOT putting out the same support expectation. Fuck, hiformance advertised a phone support line (that went no where).

    As for paying for higher services, I've been sending bare metal deals to a friend paying for a box with Rackspace, probably 5-10X price of LET offers. He liked the phone aspect and that Rackspace isn't going anywhere soon.

    Last week, something happened and now his IPs are marked as residential and his mail server is getting fucked. I'll have to ask him what happened after that and if / how he resolved it.

    I agree with you that they don't set the right expectations, but technically they do provide 24x7 support - just no guarantee on response times. The uptime thing guarantee is another example, I mentioned I have a $5/year vps from alphracks and it actually meets the uptime promises, not so much for a KVM I had and their shared hosting is 99.9% downtime lol

    I guess they don't really give a shit as long as people pay, idle their vps and then onto the next customer.

    You can definitely get stung by bigger providers too like you've mentioned, which really makes a case for the good quality LET hosts that are able to provide a good stable service for a much smaller cost :)

  • @dahartigan said:

    @TimboJones said:

    @dahartigan said:
    I get what OP is saying in that some of us are happy to pay rock bottom prices and expect it to be unreliable. I remember back in the day having shell accounts on friend's Linux boxes and it would often go down or something.

    There is a difference between the outright criminal and the genuine hosts that happen to go out of business, what really matters is the way that it ends.

    Sure alpharacks sucks and all but I still have a $5/year vps from them that hasn't gone down once, and to me that's exceeded my expectations.

    Same goes with the 49 cents a year hosting, it's got horrible uptime if you expect to have it hosting a business website or something, but if you just wanted something to play with occasionally and won't get too mad if it's down when you go to use it, what's the harm?

    In saying all that, when it comes to hosting things that actually matter, you just can't expect it to work out and you need to find something in a higher price/quality bracket.. outside of the hobbyist-grade bracket that most of these leb hosts fall into, as long as they aren't outright scams.

    The only time I see the best effort support disclaimers are on the $3/year nat services, which is totally fair.

    Otherwise, if you advertise 24/7 support and 99.9% uptime, you're NOT putting out the same support expectation. Fuck, hiformance advertised a phone support line (that went no where).

    As for paying for higher services, I've been sending bare metal deals to a friend paying for a box with Rackspace, probably 5-10X price of LET offers. He liked the phone aspect and that Rackspace isn't going anywhere soon.

    Last week, something happened and now his IPs are marked as residential and his mail server is getting fucked. I'll have to ask him what happened after that and if / how he resolved it.

    I agree with you that they don't set the right expectations, but technically they do provide 24x7 support - just no guarantee on response times. The uptime thing guarantee is another example, I mentioned I have a $5/year vps from alphracks and it actually meets the uptime promises, not so much for a KVM I had and their shared hosting is 99.9% downtime lol

    I guess they don't really give a shit as long as people pay, idle their vps and then onto the next customer.

    You can definitely get stung by bigger providers too like you've mentioned, which really makes a case for the good quality LET hosts that are able to provide a good stable service for a much smaller cost :)

    No, a ticket system that accepts tickets 24/7 is not providing support 24/7. This is just outright fraud and red flag for shitty providers to avoid.

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