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Home isps

DavernoDaverno Member
edited November 2018 in General

A few days I had some problems with my internet provider a big name player, the lady from tech support could control my ont router remotely and even see which connected devices and where traffic goes and comes isn't this scarry? So for sure my internet provider keeps logs as she was looking at my previous navigation logs to see where the congestion of my line is and she even said she gonna keep looking at logs to see if the problem persists before she is sending an technical team at home. Would this freak you out? Should I keep the vpn on now 24/7? Should I don't use the vpn function directly form my router? Are smaller isps safer due less automizations?

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Comments

  • Quick, start surfing porn sites.

  • Weird flex but ok

  • MasonRMasonR Community Contributor
    edited November 2018

    Use your own router (instead of renting one from the ISP) and they no longer have a backdoor into your network. One of the main reasons I replaced my Verizon router with my own hardware. They'll still see your traffic (unless using a VPN), but at least they won't be able to see connected devices and all that jazz.

    BTW is this in reference to Verizon? Sounds like that's what you're describing.

  • Most isps have access to their CPE for troubleshooting upgrading etc, I never use them.

  • edited November 2018

    I mean for example Comcast - they flash their own firmware on your modem, even if you bought your own, so it still gives them access (had an issue recently, and they logged in my own Linksys modem to troubleshoot like a boss).
    So my honest suggestion is to get a VPN router (or make your own), and run all your traffic via that router. They (your ISP) will be able to see that there is traffic, but since the VPN router creates an encrypted tunnel to the VPN servers, and 0.0.0.0/0 is router via that tunnel - the ISP will have no clue what actually goes through it.
    Also router-wise - look for a WireGuard VPN router and service. Its where its at - high speed, low latency.

  • DavernoDaverno Member
    edited November 2018

    @t0ny0 said:
    I mean for example Comcast - they flash their own firmware on your modem, even if you bought your own, so it still gives them access (had an issue recently, and they logged in my own Linksys modem to troubleshoot like a boss).
    So my honest suggestion is to get a VPN router (or make your own), and run all your traffic via that router. They (your ISP) will be able to see that there is traffic, but since the VPN router creates an encrypted tunnel to the VPN servers, and 0.0.0.0/0 is router via that tunnel - the ISP will have no clue what actually goes through it.
    Also router-wise - look for a WireGuard VPN router and service. Its where its at - high speed, low latency.

    Wouldn't my ipsec running on my devices and servers do it? Or getting an vpn router gives you even more anonymousness? > @MasonR said:

    Use your own router (instead of renting one from the ISP) and they no longer have a backdoor into your network. One of the main reasons I replaced my Verizon router with my own hardware. They'll still see your traffic (unless using a VPN), but at least they won't be able to see connected devices and all that jazz.

    BTW is this in reference to Verizon? Sounds like that's what you're describing.

    No it's not Verizon, it's Telekom.

  • @Daverno said:

    Wouldn't my ipsec running on my devices and servers do it? Or getting an vpn router gives you even more anonymousness?

    It would, just WireGuard would be a much faster and arguably more secure alternative to IPSec. Plus running VPN per device gives you that moment of "did I turn the VPN on?", while if you have it on your VPN router - its always on, and everything is routed via the VPN, dns requests included.

    But yeah, any VPN is better than no VPN (except most free VPN providers - avoid them like the plague, cause bandwidth costs money, and they will usually find a way to make their money back somehow, which can sometimes be your data, defeating the purpose of having a VPN).

    Thanked by 1Daverno
  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    Does trouble keep finding you or are you out looking for trouble?

  • @KuJoe said:
    Does trouble keep finding you or are you out looking for trouble?

    Excuse me?

  • nqservicesnqservices Member
    edited November 2018

    Never ever use your ISP router! Always use your own router and define as DNS Google or Cloudflare. One cheap and good option is Edgerouter X from Ubiquiti: https://www.ubnt.com/edgemax/edgerouter-x/

    Note: Ask your ISP if they allow for their router to be put in bridge/modem mode. That way you will not have double NAT issues.

  • FHRFHR Member, Host Rep
    edited November 2018

    t0ny0 said: [Wireguard] more secure alternative to IPSec

    Excuse me? To quote Wireguard's own page:

    WireGuard is not yet complete. You should not rely on this code.
    It has not undergone proper degrees of security auditing and the protocol is still subject to change.
    We're working toward a stable 1.0 release, but that time has not yet come.
    There are experimental snapshots tagged with "0.0.YYYYMMDD", but these should not be considered
    real releases and they may contain security vulnerabilities (which would not be eligible for CVEs, since this is pre-release snapshot software). 
    If you are packaging WireGuard, you must keep up to date with the snapshots.
    
  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep
    edited November 2018

    @FHR said:

    t0ny0 said: [Wireguard] more secure alternative to IPSec

    Excuse me? To quote Wireguard's own page:

    WireGuard is not yet complete. You should not rely on this code.
    It has not undergone proper degrees of security auditing and the protocol is still subject to change.
    We're working toward a stable 1.0 release, but that time has not yet come.
    There are experimental snapshots tagged with "0.0.YYYYMMDD", but these should not be considered
    real releases and they may contain security vulnerabilities (which would not be eligible for CVEs, since this is pre-release snapshot software). 
    If you are packaging WireGuard, you must keep up to date with the snapshots.
    

    He has to say that. It really is still way more secure than IPSec and others. It's quite stable too. It's performance and overhead are waaaaaaay better than any existing technology. He's extremely, extremely conservative with versioning. Honestly, I think he's just waiting until it's merged into Linux kernel before removing that. Even Linus Torvalds has called it, "A work of art".

  • FHRFHR Member, Host Rep

    SpryServers_Tab said: way more secure than IPSec and others

    Can't say that about anything unless it has been properly audited.

    I could claim that cheap OEM Chinese routers are the most secure as well, because no vulnerability has been found yet.

    There's a reason enterprises and governments use IPsec and not Wireguard.

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep
    edited November 2018

    @FHR said:

    SpryServers_Tab said: way more secure than IPSec and others

    Can't say that about anything unless it has been properly audited.

    I could claim that cheap OEM Chinese routers are the most secure as well, because no vulnerability has been found yet.

    There's a reason enterprises and governments use IPsec and not Wireguard.

    Well that's the thing, it's completely opensource and auditable. With just over 4000~ lines of code. And now has been audited. https://courses.csail.mit.edu/6.857/2018/project/He-Xu-Xu-WireGuard.pdf

    https://www.wireguard.com/papers/wireguard-formal-verification.pdf

    And it's already been suggested for the US government to switch to Wireguard. https://phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=WireGuard-Senator-Recommends

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • FHRFHR Member, Host Rep
    edited November 2018

    SpryServers_Tab said: Well that's the thing, it's completely opensource and auditable. With just over 4000~ lines of code.

    Opensource !== secure. Auditable !== audited. This has been proven many many times. Want a recent example? VestaCP.
    The code was (and still is in places) a steaming pile of vulnerabilities - some of which have been there for several years.

    Sorry to be a killjoy, but it will still be years before you see massive enterprise deployments of it.

  • SpryServers_TabSpryServers_Tab Member, Host Rep

    @FHR said:

    Sorry to be a killjoy, but it will still be years before you see massive enterprise deployments of it.

    I agree with this. My point, is that for someone trying to hide their internet activity from their provider, it's perfectly suitable and would provide better latency and overhead than other solutions. (provided they are using a good VPN provider)

  • @SpryServers_Tab said:

    @FHR said:

    Sorry to be a killjoy, but it will still be years before you see massive enterprise deployments of it.

    I agree with this. My point, is that for someone trying to hide their internet activity from their provider, it's perfectly suitable and would provide better latency and overhead than other solutions. (provided they are using a good VPN provider)

    But since I like to keep things on my own servers, Wireguard is really complicated to setup and it's cant be connected out of the box. And since is not stable it will require additional tinkering if something goes wrong on the way. I did test it however and the speed and ping benefits I got were really small but I guess the security is where it really counts.

  • WireGuard is far from complicated to set up. I find it about the easiest vpn server to set up manually. And I can fill my gigabit line with a simple 1cpu vps, while getting around ~5ms added to my original latency.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:
    Does trouble keep finding you or are you out looking for trouble?

    Excuse me?

    Based on your past threads you can't seem to catch a break.

  • DavernoDaverno Member
    edited November 2018

    @KuJoe said:

    @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:
    Does trouble keep finding you or are you out looking for trouble?

    Excuse me?

    Based on your past threads you can't seem to catch a break.

    Such judgefull and mean glad I'm not your costumer

  • @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:

    @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:
    Does trouble keep finding you or are you out looking for trouble?

    Excuse me?

    Based on your past threads you can't seem to catch a break.

    Such judgefull and mean glad I'm not your costumer

    if the glove fits; facts.

  • KuJoeKuJoe Member, Host Rep

    @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:

    @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:
    Does trouble keep finding you or are you out looking for trouble?

    Excuse me?

    Based on your past threads you can't seem to catch a break.

    Such judgefull and mean glad I'm not your costumer

    The term "can't catch a break" means that you keep running into bad luck. My posts were meant as jokes since you've never posted a positive thread on this site before.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    I remember the day he arrived at LET, complaining about how utter bullshit LET community was and he'd rather castrate himself than be a part of the community.

    And here we are, few months later.

  • @KuJoe said:

    @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:

    @Daverno said:

    @KuJoe said:
    Does trouble keep finding you or are you out looking for trouble?

    Excuse me?

    Based on your past threads you can't seem to catch a break.

    Such judgefull and mean glad I'm not your costumer

    The term "can't catch a break" means that you keep running into bad luck. My posts were meant as jokes since you've never posted a positive thread on this site before.

    k positive upcoming thread incoming

  • @Daverno said:
    A few days I had some problems with my internet provider a big name player, the lady from tech support could control my ont router remotely and even see which connected devices and where traffic goes and comes isn't this scarry? So for sure my internet provider keeps logs as she was looking at my previous navigation logs to see where the congestion of my line is and she even said she gonna keep looking at logs to see if the problem persists before she is sending an technical team at home. Would this freak you out? Should I keep the vpn on now 24/7? Should I don't use the vpn function directly form my router? Are smaller isps safer due less automizations?

    The TR069/ACS server can get a LOT of info from the routers, including a lot that isn't even exposed in the webUI even if you have a user with elevated privileges. It can also change a lot of hidden settings.

    It's likely they can see everything connected to their router, the MAC address, the DHCP hostname, all of your wireless SSID's and Passwords as well as any port forwards.etc.

  • Well, guys love to say all of you have shared massive stuff here. This remains useful for me as well and recommends you keep sharing like this more with all.

  • @deank said:
    I remember the day he arrived at LET, complaining about how utter bullshit LET community was and he'd rather castrate himself than be a part of the community.

    And here we are, few months later.

    I think he was a castrate before and just wanted to show off. I would say flex but it really doesn't apply in this case anymore.

    Thanked by 1Hukin
  • @MasonR said:
    Use your own router (instead of renting one from the ISP) and they no longer have a backdoor into your network. One of the main reasons I replaced my Verizon router with my own hardware. They'll still see your traffic (unless using a VPN), but at least they won't be able to see connected devices and all that jazz.

    BTW is this in reference to Verizon? Sounds like that's what you're describing.

    Hmm. I heard vod/ cable does not work if you have your own router.... is it true? Also what router is recommended?

  • Remote lady can't control you penis up because too small

  • @Charles12 said:
    Well, guys love to say all of you have shared massive stuff here. This remains useful for me as well and recommends you keep sharing like this more with all.

    Getting your post count up?

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