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Rules for selling on LowEndTalk [Updated January 2020] - Page 2
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Rules for selling on LowEndTalk [Updated January 2020]

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Comments

  • The dedi increase caught me off guard. Saw Jack's offer and thought surely he wouldn't be breaking the rules, went seeking to confirm amount and found it had changed :)

    I see now issue trying it, just curious how $84 was picked. (49-1 answer reversed?)

  • @tarasis said: just curious how $84 was picked. (49-1 answer reversed?)

    ↓ ↓ ↓

    AnthonySmith said: in case anyone wondered about the new dedi price on trial, it was just an arbitrary $7*12 as there are no metrics to see what would work, so it may stay, it may be altered it may be completely reverted.

    Thanked by 1tarasis

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  • Thank'yee kindly @MasonR while I read the rules I didn't read the whole thread.

    Thanked by 1MasonR
  • EdmondEdmond Member without signature

    Thanks for updating the price! Not sure if it's just me missing it, but there's no price limit for the shared hosting services, maybe that should be set as well?

    Thanked by 1PrivacyInfinity
  • SmallWebSmallWeb Member, Provider

    @Edmond said:
    Thanks for updating the price! Not sure if it's just me missing it, but there's no price limit for the shared hosting services, maybe that should be set as well?

    Says it a few bullet points down on shared

    Price rules are the same as VPS however even yearly offers must be recurring.

  • Talk about lowering the bar..

  • BlaZeBlaZe Member, Provider

    @Nekki said:

    6 months ago, I’d have agreed with you.

    3 months ago I bought a server for roughly $96/month because it was such a cracking deal.

    Plenty of folks paid in excess of $49 for those lovely Hetzner deals last year.

    Maybe we should give it a try, and see how it works?

    @Cloudvider

    Hmm, fair enough.

    ExoticVM.com - Find VPS in exotic locations! - Discussion Thread

  • @huntercop said:
    Talk about lowering the bar..

    Feel free to talk about it, in fully formed sentences would be best.

    Thanked by 4Aidan MasonR jar tarasis

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • cociucociu Member, Provider

    nice about limit rise in dedi , now the providers can offer something more strong in this budget. a big ++++ for the ideea.

  • This only means they can offer it, if you don't want it don't buy it. Vote with your dollars, at some point they will get the message.

    Thanked by 1MikePT

    Catch me over at Primary DNS. If you want to chat I am done with this cesspool.

  • Thanks @AnthonySmith for this clean thread.

  • Rather than increase the monthly maximum for dedis, it might instead have been nicer to keep the max where it was, but start allowing setup fees. I've started to like setup fees for dedis, as an anti-shoemining measure.

    #lexit spread the word.

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @willie said:
    Rather than increase the monthly maximum for dedis, it might instead have been nicer to keep the max where it was, but start allowing setup fees. I've started to like setup fees for dedis, as an anti-shoemining measure.

    Lol @ setup fees. It does not make sense.

  • MikePT said: Lol @ setup fees. It does not make sense.

    Agreed, set up fees to the budget masses will be as bad as a price increase, they wan't to pay the minimum and certainly not have to pay a set up fee. Miners are not the only ones that want a server short term.

    And really, people on here want to have the server and return within the month if the DD results do not meet their high expectations.

    Thanked by 2uptime MikePT
  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider
    edited February 2018

    @Lee said:

    MikePT said: Lol @ setup fees. It does not make sense.

    Agreed, set up fees to the budget masses will be as bad as a price increase, they wan't to pay the minimum and certainly not have to pay a set up fee. Miners are not the only ones that want a server short term.

    And really, people on here want to have the server and return within the month if the DD results do not meet their high expectations.

    Yep. DD is like the only thing that matters.

  • MikePT said: Yep. DD is like the only thing that matters.

    That and preventing progress.

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • Putting this post here as well as the discussion post and this one is running in parallel:

    Ok well, as a wise man once said, opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one and you don't go out of your way (usually) to look deep into someone else's.

    So my final thoughts, as everything that can be said has been said and we are just circling around the same points now.

    This won't be reverted early.

    Dedicated offers are few and far between on LET currently.

    I and essentially LET as a body is not overly interested in what you can get somewhere else within our rules.

    We do see a large number of dedi requests that cannot be satisfied without our old rules.

    The trail will run.

    It is just a trial.

    You will all get the change to vote on it in April.

    Good night Seattle.

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • williewillie Member
    edited February 2018

    Lee said: set up fees to the budget masses will be as bad as a price increase, they wan't to pay the minimum and certainly not have to pay a set up fee.

    Fair enough. Hetzner has them, Online has them, Kimsufi does, SYS sometimes does, I think OVH has had them in the past, and I do treat it as a price increase that I calculate by spreading it across 6 months or a year. I don't think I've ever kept a dedi less than that. So if the monthly fee is $X and the setup fee is $Y, maybe the limit could be something like (X + Y/6) <= 49 (or 84 or whatever).

    It's pretty silly if people go crazy over the Online and OVH flash sales (which are insanely cheap) but they aren't allowed in offer threads because they have setup fees. They are as low end as it gets.

    #lexit spread the word.

  • 84 is the answer to everything doubled.

    So long and thanks for all of the fish.

    Thanked by 2Junkless AITHosting

    Have I mentioned how much I hate auto correct recently?

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited February 2018
    • 7th Feb 2018 - updated rules regarding reselling

    • 8th Feb 2018 - made the rules more clear in regard to $7 p/month being the absolute maximum price equivalent over any term.

    • 10th Feb 2018 - No new shared only hosts, existing hosts grandfathered.

    Thanked by 1SmallWeb

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Provider

    AnthonySmith said: re-seller

    Nitpick, Am I the only one who thinks reseller is a valid word?

    AnthonySmith said: Using a nulled WHMCS

    What about HostBill etc? Perhaps nulled billing software?

    AnthonySmith said: maximum of one offer per 30 days with our permission

    :( Not that I post every 14 days (old rules) but is there a specific reason for the special case?

    AnthonySmith said: USD$84/month

    I know alot of people will object to this. But personally I don't care as it allows for more variety in the offers.

    Other than that quite fair.

    X4B - DDoS Protection: Affordable Anycast DDoS mitigation with PoPs in the Europe, Asia, North and South America.
    Latest Offer: Brazil Launch 2020 Offer
  • It's ok I no longer use grammarly so the - should reduce now.

    Yep nulled in general, good point.

    Yep, I forget what it was now, let me get back to you.

    Great, we are keeping track of all dedi offers privately so we have some 3 month metrics as part of the trial.

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • $84 still doesn’t seem to be bringing much APAC dedis into LET. Am still hopeful.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    caracal said: $84 still doesn’t seem to be bringing much APAC dedis into LET. Am still hopeful.

    Do you expect new hosts will arrive immediately?

    Clouvider Limited - Leading Hosting & Connectivity Partner || Dedicated Server Sale from £39/m - Our Latest LET Offer

    Cloud Web Hosting | SSD & SAS HA OnApp VPS | US, UK, NL & DE Dedicated Servers | Network Services | Colocation | Managed Services

  • @Clouvider said:

    caracal said: $84 still doesn’t seem to be bringing much APAC dedis into LET. Am still hopeful.

    Do you expect new hosts will arrive immediately?

    Of course. Wouldn't you instantly sign up when you realized that this might be the only chance at being able to offer your dedis to all of the money dripping premium costumers around here?

  • @mksh said:

    @Clouvider said:

    caracal said: $84 still doesn’t seem to be bringing much APAC dedis into LET. Am still hopeful.

    Do you expect new hosts will arrive immediately?

    Of course. Wouldn't you instantly sign up when you realized that this might be the only chance at being able to offer your dedis to all of the money dripping premium costumers around here?

    Hey man, if you didn't know some of us do have more than 2 pennies to rub on.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider

    I must go and build my own little spot on the internet.

  • tank you

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    @virtualserver said:
    tank you

    Just a few more posts and you'll be able to apply for this provider tag you came for.

    Thanked by 1WSS

    Clouvider Limited - Leading Hosting & Connectivity Partner || Dedicated Server Sale from £39/m - Our Latest LET Offer

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  • "Members must have 25 posts and have been registered for 14 days to be allowed to list a domain sale
    Domain needs to be at least 6 months old"
    Sorry I bid some domains then read the rules. Am I able to be valid to bid?

  • @justwonder said:
    "Members must have 25 posts and have been registered for 14 days to be allowed to list a domain sale
    Domain needs to be at least 6 months old"
    Sorry I bid some domains then read the rules. Am I able to be valid to bid?

    You're allowed to bid. Those rules just apply to domain sellers.

    Thanked by 1justwonder

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  • mikhomikho Member, Provider

    @justwonder said:
    "Members must have 25 posts and have been registered for 14 days to be allowed to list a domain sale
    Domain needs to be at least 6 months old"
    Sorry I bid some domains then read the rules. Am I able to be valid to bid?

    Your’e not selling? Only buying? Then yes. You can bid.

    Thanked by 1justwonder
    I can now be found at https://talk.lowendspirit.com
    or on twitter
    Come say HI! :)
  • The rules are for selling not buying so you can bid yes.

    Thanked by 1justwonder

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • justwonderjustwonder Member
    edited February 2018

    Hello experts,

    I'm last bid, can I bid more? I want sleep, can't wait to countdown 0. https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/comment/2678881#Comment_2678881

  • Yes, you can bid again. Minimal increment rule still applies.

    Thanked by 1justwonder

    Like.

  • Do we need to have a provider tag while offering beta tests for a panel (that would sell VMs in the future) ?

  • @PrestigeWS said:
    Do we need to have a provider tag while offering beta tests for a panel (that would sell VMs in the future) ?

    If you are offering the tests for free then that is fine.

    Thanked by 1PrestigeWS

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    @PrestigeWS said:
    Do we need to have a provider tag while offering beta tests for a panel (that would sell VMs in the future) ?

    If you are offering the tests for free then that is fine.

    Yep for free. Thanks!

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Provider

    AnthonySmith said: Yep, I forget what it was now, let me get back to you.

    I guess I missed out on that story.

    X4B - DDoS Protection: Affordable Anycast DDoS mitigation with PoPs in the Europe, Asia, North and South America.
    Latest Offer: Brazil Launch 2020 Offer
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    Sorry, so many things going on at the same time, it is the start of moving the none vps/hosting services I.e. None core stuff to a 30 day rotation, or at least that was the thinking, given that people don't even want shared Hosting here I don't know which direction it will go now, thoughts are welcome!

    Sorry About random capitalisation my iPad is a dick and its a pita to correct

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • SplitIceSplitIce Member, Provider
    edited March 2018

    @AnthonySmith I don't like shared hosts either, unless someone is doing something special (yet to see) it's all the same and too cheap for real sustainability. But innovative ideas that don't fit any category? I enjoy reading those threads.

    X4B - DDoS Protection: Affordable Anycast DDoS mitigation with PoPs in the Europe, Asia, North and South America.
    Latest Offer: Brazil Launch 2020 Offer
  • funkywizardfunkywizard Member, Provider

    @Mad said:

    Dedicated must not exceed USD$84/month recurring on monthly billing, with no setup fee. (price change is on a 3 month trial, user feedback will be taken in April)

    According to me it makes no sense.

    These are not "LowEnd.." offers anymore and most of the providers would fit in it.

    The ideal one should be USD$59-69/month

    I would disagree with that. Anything under $100 is cheap. Anything under $50 pretty much excludes any provider that doesn't own it's own datacenter AND targets bottom dollar high volume servers (or fly by night operators / scammers).

    In a colocation environment, it costs easily $30 / mo in power alone to set up just about any server. Depends on the server of course, but definitely $20 - $50 / mo in power depending on the server type and where it's hosted. $30 is pretty typical. At $49 I'd be surprised to see anything other than scams and broken hardware.

    Pushing the maximum price to $84 instead of $49 / mo, means that instead of $19 / mo to cover hardware, network, payment processing, support, etc, there's up to $54 / mo to pay for all that stuff. That leaves room for a wide range of possible servers and configurations.

    At the same time, I think you'll see more competition with the $84 limit than you do with $49. At $49, there's no reason for 99% of hosts to even consider marketing here at all period. At $84, you could see one provider asking $79, another offers the same thing for $74 or $69, and you end up encouraging providers to really participate and find ways to cut costs for customers. If people see good volume, it can start to make sense to offer servers for $84 that might normally cost well over $100 / mo. At $49, you can't make up in volume losing money on every sale.

  • qpsqps Member, Provider

    funkywizard said: Anything under $100 is cheap.

    If I were picking, I think this should be the limit.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    @qps said:

    funkywizard said: Anything under $100 is cheap.

    If I were picking, I think this should be the limit.

    And +1 here

    Thanked by 1funkywizard

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  • @Clouvider said:

    @qps said:

    funkywizard said: Anything under $100 is cheap.

    If I were picking, I think this should be the limit.

    And +1 here

    There's still a private thread (staff only) tracking the "awesomeness" of offers, both under and over 49 usd.

    So far there doesn't seem much benefit to increase the limit due to lack of good deals dedicated servers in offer threads. (big hint to all dedicated server providers: use this 3 month trial to send out some awesome offers, so everyone can see that increasing the limit leads to more awesomeness on LET.)

    Thanked by 1funkywizard

    I like my uptime down low and my servers all hacked. Can see me droppin' twenty-fours with a router in the rack.
    Ya like ya Switch-Ports hot and ya servers all hacked. If ya pings real high and ya networks pitch black.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    Just wait till we replenish our stocks ;-).

    Clouvider Limited - Leading Hosting & Connectivity Partner || Dedicated Server Sale from £39/m - Our Latest LET Offer

    Cloud Web Hosting | SSD & SAS HA OnApp VPS | US, UK, NL & DE Dedicated Servers | Network Services | Colocation | Managed Services

  • @Clouvider said:
    Just wait till we replenish our stocks ;-).

    Really hope it happens in the next 7 weeks :)

    Thanked by 1Clouvider

    I like my uptime down low and my servers all hacked. Can see me droppin' twenty-fours with a router in the rack.
    Ya like ya Switch-Ports hot and ya servers all hacked. If ya pings real high and ya networks pitch black.

  • qpsqps Member, Provider

    teamacc said: There's still a private thread (staff only) tracking the "awesomeness" of offers, both under and over 49 usd.

    So far there doesn't seem much benefit to increase the limit due to lack of good deals dedicated servers in offer threads. (big hint to all dedicated server providers: use this 3 month trial to send out some awesome offers, so everyone can see that increasing the limit leads to more awesomeness on LET.)

    I guess my question is do we really need a limit at all? Providers who actually invest some time into researching what this community is looking for will know that if the pricing they offer isn't a good deal that no one from here is going to buy it.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited March 2018

    I will bite..

    For dedicated servers, I personally agree wit removing the limit but doing so will result in "its not low end" with no actual logical argument would be thrown around so much it will make your head spin though.

    Even when putting the price up to $84 as a trial I had to explain the same point to people so many times I lost count.

    I appreciate when this place was started the limit was set at $7 for VPS, dedicated servers were never even a consideration, so the $49 limit was just plucked out of thin air.

    What is Low End was never actually quantified though as a result of that everyone probably has a different idea and at the same time none of them can be wrong.

    To me an E5 server with 64GB ram and an SSD is NOT a lowend server, just because someone can do it for $49 does not make it a low end server.

    I think the whole locked price thing is highly discriminatory and frankly ignorant at this stage in the life of LET/B, I wont justify that for the 100th time i would just say; get me a $49 server in France and get me a $49 server in Mainland China, then lets compare and you can justify to me why my server is China is a pile of shit in comparison.

    The answer can only be "things in this context at least cost more in China"

    So with that said, we have a few options:

    1. Everyone needs to be universally forced accept that the LE part of LET/B refers to price only and nothing changes and we can just keep talking about hetzner, OVH etc forever and nothing new happens.

    2. We make regional exceptions and rules for dedicated servers (not out of the question) and accept that the arbitrary price is a square peg in a round hole for half the world and as such we just will not get that exposure here (head in the sand) unless we allow per region pricing.

    3. We just remove the price limit for dedicated servers entirely and let the community self moderate.

    Examples to point 3

    If someone is offering an E3-1230 first edition with 32GB RAM and a 500GB SATA for $150 in the Netherlands that's a shit deal and they will be thrashed by the many professionally offended community members we have here.

    If someone offers a dual E5-2690v4 with 256GB RAM and 4 x NVME drives on a 10gbit link for $200 in the USA we are not going to tell them to go away are we.. that's a killer deal.

    Gabe @funkywizard has proven that point with his Dual CPU 48GB Ram, 18TB storage server, from what I understand it has been very popular and would have previously and in my opinion needlessly excluded because of an arbitrary price.

    We already allow general service sellers who in most cases have much lower overheads charge significantly more, it seems stupid to force the lifeblood, the stable base of the entire community to have more restrictions.

    --

    With all that said, none of this is remotely related to the VPS market, the $7 was what the site was founded on, there is so much more flexibility for VPS providers in pricing, with dedicated servers at the base level you have hardware cost+power+BW, with dedicated servers you can split it up to match the market prices so getting a little 512mb VPS in an exotic location is not out of the question, in a less exotic places you might offer 4GB RAM instead.

    I would ask anyone that reads this and finds themselves frustrated by my thoughts to really put yourself in my position, there is no possible way you can make a decision here that will be acceptable to everyone, some people see the price limits like ancient religious texts and that is the price because that is the price and no other thoughts will be entertained, others I know see the price limit of dedicated servers as a point of needless exclusion.

    In the end I guess the best option is setting the parameters allowing the community to self moderate to a large degree, assessing the outcomes over time and then adjusting as required while being prepared for the fact that the outcomes may not be desirable.

    General arguments I just dismiss:

    This will turn it into WHT - ridiculous, if your really feel that way PM me with your argument for this we can debate it at length.

    It will no longer be low End - You did not read what I wrote above or you did but don't agree, again feel free to PM me with your argument.

    tl;dr= A new BMW 5 M series for $15,000 is not a low end box(car) its a fantastic bargain, a 2 year old ford focus for $7,000 is a low end box(car) at a great price, by saying one of them is not low end based on price alone means you just lost your chance of a BMW 5 Series at a ridiculously 'low end' price for what you are actually getting for the money because you closed your eyes to the deal for the sake of an arbitrary rule.

    So who knows where it will end, maybe I just cannot be bothered with the headache.

    Thanked by 2funkywizard ucxo

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  • funkywizardfunkywizard Member, Provider

    @teamacc said:

    @Clouvider said:

    @qps said:

    funkywizard said: Anything under $100 is cheap.

    If I were picking, I think this should be the limit.

    And +1 here

    There's still a private thread (staff only) tracking the "awesomeness" of offers, both under and over 49 usd.

    So far there doesn't seem much benefit to increase the limit due to lack of good deals dedicated servers in offer threads. (big hint to all dedicated server providers: use this 3 month trial to send out some awesome offers, so everyone can see that increasing the limit leads to more awesomeness on LET.)

    Not surprising that it would be a slow process. Would probably require more outreach to get the ball moving a bit faster.

    I'm here because Anthony was nice enough (and persistent enough!) in reaching out to me and mentioning the opportunity, along with additional followups and assistance from my staff. I immediately saw the potential, but it still took me a while to get around to doing anything with it (like everyone else, I'm pretty busy).

    So if I saw the potential right away (but only after I was informed of it), and it took me a while to do anything with it, there's probably a lot of others who haven't even started to think about it yet, because they don't even know.

  • funkywizardfunkywizard Member, Provider
    edited March 2018

    @qps said:

    teamacc said: There's still a private thread (staff only) tracking the "awesomeness" of offers, both under and over 49 usd.

    So far there doesn't seem much benefit to increase the limit due to lack of good deals dedicated servers in offer threads. (big hint to all dedicated server providers: use this 3 month trial to send out some awesome offers, so everyone can see that increasing the limit leads to more awesomeness on LET.)

    I guess my question is do we really need a limit at all? Providers who actually invest some time into researching what this community is looking for will know that if the pricing they offer isn't a good deal that no one from here is going to buy it.

    I do think $99 is a fair limit, given the focus of this community. $84 isn't a bad place to test either, just saying if I were picking a number out of thin air, probably would pick $99.

    As to whether there should be a limit or not, I do see the value in having one for this site. On WHT, there -is- a very strong "give it to me cheaper" vibe, but that still doesn't stop people from offering a lot of junk or overpriced stuff. It does make it a challenge to wade through the large number of ads where the pricing is misleading or simply not very good, to get to the occasional offer that does seem quite good. And then find that it's either out of stock, or the order form is incomprehensible / no obvious way to get the pricing that was offered.

    I've spent a fair amount of time on the WHT offers section to do competitive research, and what I usually come away with is a feeling of "how does anyone buy anything from 95% of these companies?"

    So I see having a price limit more as a useful way to declutter. It's also a good way to make the site more niche. Some may see being "niche" as limiting, but I think it's the opposite.

    People old enough to remember software sold in stores may remember learning software that had a grade level on it. "Learn math 5th grade", right next to 1st grade, 2nd grade, 3rd grade, etc. The idea was met with much resistance -- that would take up too much shelf space, there would be too many SKUs, you're limiting your audience, and so forth. What actually happened was they dominated the market. People took a look and said "oh, my child is in third grade, so this software package is obviously for me. I'll buy it."

    Better to have what I call a "polarizing statement" -- something people react strongly to -- some very positive and some very negative -- rather than try to be everything to everyone and end up being nothing to nobody.

    If there were not competing sites out there already trying to be more generalized, I would agree that having a price limit may be too limiting. Given the competitive landscape, I think the price limit serves a useful purpose in differentiating this community from others. The best price limit is certainly debatable, of course.

    Thanked by 2ucxo willie
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