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Hetzner Germany vs Finland Peering?

HuntersPadHuntersPad Member
in General

Just trying to see which one is the best peering wise if anyone has any input?

My traffic is all over so theres no general area. Mostly Europe, India, and US.

Thanks!

Comments

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran
    edited October 2018

    Hetzner Finland is a complete joke. From Russia the ping is worse than to Hetzner DE (and now check the map). Most stuff is routed via Germany. They do not care, it's "closer" to Northern Europe only on paper.

     Host                                Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
 1. 10.92.127.254                     0.0%     6    5.6   5.5   3.9   7.3   1.1
 2. lag-3-438.bgw01.tmn.ertelecom.ru  0.0%     6    6.0   6.3   5.4   8.2   0.9
 3. ertelekom-ic-317530-sap-b3.c.tel  0.0%     5   37.9  39.1  37.9  40.5   0.7
 4. sap-b3-link.telia.net             0.0%     5   40.9  39.2  38.7  40.9   0.9
 5. hls-b1-link.telia.net             0.0%     5   45.9  46.3  44.7  49.9   1.9
 6. hetzner-ic-326014-hls-b1.c.telia  0.0%     5   95.2  98.4  95.2 100.1   1.9
 7. core31.hel1.hetzner.com           0.0%     5   78.9  71.7  69.0  78.9   4.0
 8. ex9k1.dc2.hel1.hetzner.com        0.0%     5   70.1  71.7  70.1  76.4   2.6
 9. static.40.24.216.95.clients.your  0.0%     5   97.4  96.8  94.8  99.8   1.8

     Host                                Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
 1. 10.92.127.254                     0.0%     6    5.6   5.2   4.6   6.3   0.4
 2. lag-3-438.bgw01.tmn.ertelecom.ru  0.0%     6    6.1   6.4   5.9   8.2   0.6
 3. GW-ERTelecom.retn.net             0.0%     5   35.8  39.2  34.7  54.6   8.6
 4. ae10-153.RT1.M9.MSK.RU.retn.net   0.0%     5   35.7  42.8  35.6  71.2  15.9
 5. ae1-5.RT.IRX.FKT.DE.retn.net      0.0%     5   76.2  76.3  73.4  79.5   2.3
 6. GW-Hetzner.retn.net               0.0%     5   78.5  76.7  73.5  79.2   2.2
 7. core11.nbg1.hetzner.com           0.0%     5   83.1  85.1  83.1  86.4   1.1
 8. ex9k2.dc1.nbg1.hetzner.com        0.0%     5   79.2  77.7  74.4  81.5   2.7
 9. www.hetzner.de                    0.0%     5   75.5  77.7  73.6  84.2   3.9
  • stefemanstefeman Member
    edited October 2018

    Im living in Finland so its obvious for me to choose it, but germany should be a better choice for your case.

    Thanked by 1karjaj
  • kmaskmas Member

    @rm_ said:
    Hetzner Finland is a complete joke. From Russia the ping is worse than to Hetzner DE (and now check the map). Most stuff is routed via Germany. They do not care, it's "closer" to Northern Europe only on paper.

    The location you tested from is far from "Northern Europe", in fact it's not in Europe at all. While Russian connections do indeed go through Germany for the most part, the connectivity to actual Northern European countries (Scandinavia and Baltics) is great.

    As for the OP, for a globally focused service, Germany is definitely a better choice.

  • HuntersPadHuntersPad Member
    edited October 2018

    One worry of Germany is there more strick laws. I'm not hosting anything illegal or copyrighted, but I still like to have a "offshore" piece of mind.

  • kmaskmas Member

    Well you'd be working with a German company either way, I don't think they have any differences in their policies between the locations and they still have to comply with the German laws regardless of the location.

    Thanked by 5Clouvider Falzo beagle vimalware malek
  • CConnerCConner Member, Host Rep

    They probably just did it for the cold air so they spend less on cooling.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran
    edited October 2018

    kmas said: The location you tested from is far from "Northern Europe",

    Really, it is far? Did you look at the map as I asked. Russia directly borders with Finland. And St. Petersburg, its 2nd major city, is just 150km from the border. There is no excuse to route traffic all the way via Germany. Other than cutting costs and providing lousy service as a result.

  • kmaskmas Member

    @rm_ said:

    kmas said: The location you tested from is far from "Northern Europe",

    Really, it is far? Did you look at the map as I asked. Russia directly borders with Finland. And St. Petersburg, its 2nd major city, is just 150km from the border. There is no excuse to route traffic all the way via Germany. Other than cutting costs and providing lousy service as a result.

    I'm aware that Russia borders with Finland. Russia also borders North Korea, that doesn't mean Finland is anywhere close to it.

    I was just pointing out that the specific location you tested from to prove that "it's closer to Northern Europe only on paper" isn't even located in Europe. Now if the tests were done from St. Petersburg as you mentioned, I could accept it as being Northern Europe, but that would still not be enough to claim that Hetzner Finland is a complete joke and useless for the whole region.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider
  • ZerpyZerpy Member

    @rm_ said:
    Hetzner Finland is a complete joke. From Russia the ping is worse than to Hetzner DE (and now check the map). Most stuff is routed via Germany. They do not care, it's "closer" to Northern Europe only on paper.

    They actually do care :-) Have you contacted Hetzner yet to ask if they have RETN available in Finland?

  • yogeshzadeyogeshzade Member

    I personally suggest you to go with any US providers. I don't know why but US location servers performs far better than Germany for Indian Traffic.

  • vimalwarevimalware Member
    edited October 2018

    @yogeshzade said:
    I personally suggest you to go with any US providers. I don't know why but US location servers performs far better than Germany for Indian Traffic.

    Who's your local ISP?
    WISPs like 4G networks might have worse ping to EU(230ms on 3G/4G vs 140 on wired broadband)

  • yogeshzadeyogeshzade Member

    @vimalware said:

    @yogeshzade said:
    I personally suggest you to go with any US providers. I don't know why but US location servers performs far better than Germany for Indian Traffic.

    Who's your local ISP?
    WISPs like 4G networks might have worse ping to EU(230ms on 3G/4G vs 140 on wired broadband)

    Today 95% of indian citizens using 4G including me :smiley:

  • sammsamm Member

    yogeshzade said: Today 95% of indian citizens using 4G

    I don't think 95% of Indian citizens even have mobile.

  • sufiyanshaikhsufiyanshaikh Member

    Well. So far my experience with Hetzner is good. Never faced any problem related to peering.

    Thanked by 1Hetzner_OL
  • Ponury_TypPonury_Typ Member

  • WilliamWilliam Member

    rm_ said: Did you look at the map as I asked. Russia directly borders with Finland

    Pls show me what ISP has actually transport on this route to SPB and then has RU transit on top, i can't find any. The primary links are via DE/NL (due to DECIX and AMSIX it is the cheapest route to Russia, regardless of distance) and Linx/others via EE.

    There is no known land cable FI-RU up there, the sea based BCS North (Phase 2, not Phase 1 at 250Gbit at slightly older tech) was built in 2000, is wholly owned by Telia and has a measly (estimate by tech used at Telia at the time, no public data) 250-500Gbit capacity with half usable full duplex redundant.

    Thanked by 1pbx
  • EddingEdding Member
    edited May 2019

    RETN uses a fibre-link from Finnland to SBP down to Moscow
    Telia too

    Thanked by 1alexvolk
  • SashkaProSashkaPro Member
    edited May 2019

    @William
    I'm not sure that I can help you but Hetzner's Finland is more attractive location for RU-users, look at tracerts from mid-ural:
    There seems that uplink is RETN
    1 Internal
    2 Internal
    3 ae2-208.RT.MDS.EKA.RU.retn.net (87.245.231.22) 8.732 ms 8.699 ms 8.701 ms
    4 ae5-8.RT.RAD.HKI.FI.retn.net (87.245.233.174) 46.654 ms 46.679 ms 46.646 ms
    5 GW-Hetzner.retn.net (87.245.248.131) 47.372 ms 46.679 ms 47.319 ms
    6 core32.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.26) 47.833 ms core31.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.38) 46.233 ms core32.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.26) 47.674 ms
    7 ex9k1.dc2.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.134) 46.773 ms 47.008 ms 46.751 ms
    8 95.217.42.X 46.169 ms !X 46.804 ms !X 46.088 ms !X
    and via uplink is telia
    1 Internal
    2 Internal
    3 bundle-ether3-4030.sr32-27.ekb.ru.mirasystem.net (92.242.29.226) 1.949 ms 1.929 ms 1.614 ms
    4 extrim.inet2.net (85.112.122.131) 33.476 ms 33.136 ms 33.423 ms
    5 telia.inet2.net (85.112.122.15) 28.243 ms 31.173 ms 32.708 ms
    6 mow-b1-link.telia.net (62.115.142.176) 30.071 ms 29.980 ms sap-b2-link.telia.net (62.115.117.47) 42.656 ms
    7 sap-b3-link.telia.net (80.91.247.209) 40.220 ms 40.261 ms 41.444 ms
    8 hls-b1-link.telia.net (80.91.246.20) 43.945 ms hls-b1-link.telia.net (62.115.135.212) 47.797 ms 62.590 ms
    9 hetzner-ic-326014-hls-b1.c.telia.net (213.248.66.77) 52.237 ms 49.116 ms 51.478 ms
    10 core32.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.26) 51.247 ms core31.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.38) 50.015 ms core32.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.26) 53.430 ms
    11 ex9k1.dc2.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.138) 48.797 ms ex9k1.dc2.hel1.hetzner.com (213.239.224.134) 47.947 ms 50.887 ms
    12 95.217.42.X 51.420 ms !X 51.403 ms !X 49.437 ms !X

    So from my mid-ural i have normaly 30 ms to Moscow, 75 ms to Hetzner-De, 50 to Hetzner-Fi

    Thanked by 1RedSox
  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran
    edited May 2019

    William said: Pls show me what ISP has actually transport on this route to SPB and then has RU transit on top, i can't find any. The primary links are via DE/NL (due to DECIX and AMSIX it is the cheapest route to Russia, regardless of distance) and Linx/others via EE.

    Until very recently I had 37ms from Tyumen to Hetzner Finland via Data-IX, iirc. But checking now, it's broken again (60+ms).

  • SashkaProSashkaPro Member

    @rm_ when Hetzner Just opened their location traffic from Ekt goes like that: EKT > MSK > Hetzner-DE > Hetzner-Fi with 70-80ms ONLY if your uplink Rostelecom (I mean if you home connection was RT or provider uplink RT). If MTS/Extrim - their uses telia with 50ms and their a cool guys.
    May be month ago something happens and its became as I wrote: direct Fi link :)

    P.S.: have you got any country list that suitable for our mid-ural location?
    I wrote to notepad: Finland, Lithuania - their both have about ~50ms.
    i'm try to found country without "hetzner's russian 20%". But only Lithuania is on my list :(

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    SashkaPro said: i'm try to found country without "hetzner's russian 20%".

    OVH Poland.

     Host                                Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
 1. 10.92.127.126                     0.0%     7    3.1   2.7   2.1   3.8   0.4
 2. lag-2-435.bgw01.tmn.ertelecom.ru  0.0%     7    2.3   2.3   1.2   2.7   0.4
 3. msk-ix.ertelecom.ru               0.0%     7   27.9  27.5  26.6  28.5   0.4
 4. ???
 5. be101.waw1-oza1-g1-nc5.pl.eu      0.0%     7   52.7  52.1  51.5  53.1   0.4
 6. ???
 7. ???
 8. ???
 9. ???
10. ???
11. 145.239.28.19                     0.0%     6   51.8  51.5  50.9  52.6   0.0

    Way worse on IPv6, though.

     Host                                Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev
 1. 2a02:2698:8000::501               0.0%     6    3.2   3.7   3.2   4.0   0.0
 2. 2a02:2698:8000::1e02              0.0%     6    2.9   3.6   2.9   4.3   0.0
 3. 2a03:5f80:4::226:90               0.0%     6   28.9  29.0  26.5  29.9   1.3
 4. ???
 5. be100-1102.var-1-a9.pl.eu         0.0%     5   75.4  75.2  74.9  75.4   0.0
 6. be101.waw1-oza1-g1-nc5.pl.eu      0.0%     5   76.3  76.1  75.6  77.1   0.5
 7. 2001:41d0:0:50::5:f8c1            0.0%     5   75.5  75.4  75.1  75.6   0.0
 8. waw1-pciz1sp1b-a72.pl.eu          0.0%     5   74.1  74.1  73.9  74.2   0.0
 9. 2001:41d0:0:1:3::13               0.0%     5   75.5  75.2  74.7  75.5   0.0
10. 2001:41d0:0:1:3::70               0.0%     5   75.1  75.4  74.8  76.3   0.5
11. 2001:41d0:0:1:3::1fa0             0.0%     5   75.1  75.3  75.0  75.5   0.0
12. 2001:41d0:601:2000::2b            0.0%     5   75.0  75.4  75.0  75.6   0.0
  • SashkaProSashkaPro Member

    @rm_
    from ekt-rt Poland got 75ms
    1 10.12.1.106 (10.12.1.106) 0.324 ms 0.299 ms 0.282 ms
    2 10.12.0.1 (10.12.0.1) 0.268 ms 0.255 ms 0.342 ms
    3 10.100.0.100 (10.100.0.100) 0.458 ms 0.419 ms 0.431 ms
    4 mx240-msk-m9-12f-1.ix.dataix.ru (178.18.233.1) 39.283 ms 39.260 ms 37.588 ms
    5 * * *
    6 be100-1102.var-1-a9.pl.eu (213.251.128.114) 72.321 ms 74.233 ms 74.173 ms
    7 be101.waw1-oza1-g1-nc5.pl.eu (91.121.131.151) 73.509 ms 72.991 ms 76.563 ms

    :(

  • alvinalvin Member

    Both networks I used to test some service, personally prefer Germany, speed is more stable than Finland

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