netcup - did not follow cancellation procedure and now keeps on receiving invoices
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netcup - did not follow cancellation procedure and now keeps on receiving invoices

eramaxeramax Member
edited October 12 in Reviews

Dear All,

In May, I purchased a vps from netcup about 15 euro per month and I found some issues and in the next day i sent a cancellation request and refund my money and I terminated the vps, then they replied that i should fill a form and print it and sign it and scan it then send it to them.

I used to purchase a vps from many providers and never seen something like that before specially my vps was monthly subscription so i said never mind about the 15 euro for this month and i will not pay any new invoices and then they will suspend and cancel my vps.
Next month I got new invoice, I found a button in the cpanel to cancel the subscription and requested that , then i got an email you have to pay first all the invoices, then i left them, and each month until now I am getting invoices despite many emails to them i don't want your service and i didn't use it only one day.

Now the total of invoices with some extra penalties about 150 euro or more and they don't respect their clients you can see this ugly email from their team

«13

Comments

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    Did you ever sign a contract in your life?

    How do you pay for your mobile phone?

    How do you pay for your gym membership ?

    How do you pay for your broadband ?

    How do you pay for your electricity ? Gas? Water?

    Does any of this somehow automagically cancel when you stop paying your bills, or do they send a debt collector and take you to court if you fail to pay, while continuing to bill you until you cancel? Hosting is no different.

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  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider
    edited October 11

    PS: Removing your name but leaving out Netcup's agent name is extremely low of you, and tells a lot about you. Zero sympathies here.

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  • AmitzAmitz Member
    edited October 11

    Review of how stupid @eramx is.

    Jesus fucking Christ, there should be mandatory courses of basic contract law for everyone trying to be part of economic life. My eMail to you would have been uglier.

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  • OP some life experience and harsh words there for you, up to you how best you use it.

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  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider
    edited October 11

    @Amitz said:

    Review of how stupid @eramx is.

    Jesus fucking Christ, there should be mandatory courses of basic contract law for everyone trying to be part of economic life. My eMail to you would have been uglier.

    You're right, perhaps I was too harsh and some advice is in order.

    @eramx you should pay the bills and follows the cancellation process to avoid further costs and marks on your credit report when you're taken to court and loose. This might severely impact your future adult life. Contact is a serious matter. You cannot hide your head in a sand or close your ears and cover your eyes while singing 'lalalalallalala' and pretending it is not happening, hoping it will go away somehow on it's own.

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  • This is what I need to confirm before purchasing from netcup or hetzner.

    Previously, i saw a TOS that cancellation needed a mail sent to them, or some form to sign and mail to them.

    And when i just cancel or leave the server unused and un paid, the billing still continue, until the requirement to cancel provided

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    I mean its 2018, online services should be the click of a few buttons to cancel because to be fair, its a click of a few buttons to start service.

    Sadly though Germany specifically seems stuck in 1974 in terms of cancellation policies, they made what you need to do to cancel etc pretty clear before you paid a penny though, you do not really have a leg to stand on no one forced you to agree to their terms.

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    Germany specifically seems stuck in 1974

    Living in Germany. Most companies force you to print a doc, sign it, scan it and send it by
    fax or registered mail. Some companies give you an online form to fill in and your contract get canceled though.

    But still. You need to cancel your contract. If you think, thats not fair,
    don't use them in future.

    But for you tickets it seems, that you and the staff are arguing. Normally
    I would say, talk to them. Most people are quiet nice and will cooperate with
    you and your fault. But as I said: I think it is too late for this.

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited October 11

    Timtimo13 said: Living in Germany. Most companies force you to print a doc, sign it, scan it and send it by fax or registered mail. Some companies give you an online form to fill in and your contract get canceled though.

    Yep, its a very 1974 thing to request is all for such a generally advanced forward thinking nation.

    I mean.. a fax.. seriously, I am not defending the OP here but if you can sign up online, pay online, you damn well should be able to cancel online as well, its just common sense.

  • I see everyone are blaming me.
    Who did use vultr, Digital Ocean , etc before ?
    Who did buy from amazon and return a service or a product before ?
    And also who of you provide a hosting services ?

    Does this activities from netcup is common or working in hosting services in 2018
    where is the respect of the customers
    and i didn't seen someone response on the customer on an email with this ugly messages before.

    Why netcup didn't show me or clearfiy all these rules when i ordered, they just had a checkbox for agree on TOS, but they should tell me there is something you should agree in a short messages not checkbox for all TOS.

    If you had purchased from netcup before you will receive a quote for VM resources you can create or terminate the VM and release the resources and i released all resources from day one so their resources were available and i didn't use them.

    Why they still invoicing me while they know and every month i email them that i don't want this service and i am also blocked from creating the VM as well so i cannot create the vm and use the resources and i have to pay as well. this is unbelievable!!!.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited October 11

    @eramax again, their policies were made available prior to you paying a penny, who else could you possibly hold responsible?

    I will fine you €100 if you do XYZ, you agree, you do XYZ anyway and you seem shocked that they did exactly what they said they would do and never forced you to be in that position to begin with.

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  • They are charging you, because you don't have canceled the contract right. Simple as this.
    As I already said: I think you started the arguing with something like 'your invoices are not correct and not fair'. Saying 'Hey guys, sorry I didn't know how to cancel' would might have lead into something more friendly conversation.

    I agree with @AnthonySmith. Vodafone for example gives you an online form. Fill it in, click 'Send', 10 minutes later comes your cancelation confirmation.

  • Can someone flag one of my two posts? Somehow I can't and get an error... Ty

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    @Timtimo13 said:
    Can someone flag one of my two posts? Somehow I can't and get an error... Ty

    Done

    @eramax just try calling them they are humans, they may help you out.

    Thanked by 1eramax
  • FalzoFalzo Member
    edited October 11

    @AnthonySmith said:
    I mean its 2018, online services should be the click of a few buttons to cancel because to be fair, its a click of a few buttons to start service.

    for netcup you actually can cancel your services with a simple click of a button in their control panel. you just need to do it 30 days upfront to the next renewal or you need to pay another month.
    yet there is no signed form required for a cancellation anymore.

    BUT if you want to get a REFUND during the initial 30 days, they ask you to claim on their satisfaction guarantue in the way described - with a written form.

    these are two things here you would not want to mess up. one is a regular cancellation and the other one is a refund/satisfaction guarantue.

    obviously netcup support clearly told OP how to claim the satisfaction guarantue to get out of the contract AND on top get a full refund. it could have been so easy to just sign+scan that form and send it to them, no?

    PS: and yes they are strict about unpaid bills and might send debt collectors - other providers might be more relaxed about such things. on the other hand if you pick a random complain thread here it is often enough about refunds and providers holding on to their 5 bucks because they exclude refund in their tos. not much better though ;-D

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  • @AnthonySmith said:

    @Timtimo13 said:
    Can someone flag one of my two posts? Somehow I can't and get an error... Ty

    Done

    @eramax just try calling them they are humans, they may help you out.

    1. Thanks :-P

    2. I think he already messed it up based on the pictures he posted.
      But as I said, it might be worth a try anyway.
      And please... Don't say it's their fault. This will not make the situation better.

    Thanked by 1eramax
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    Falzo said: for netcup you actually can cancel your services with a simple click of a button in their control panel. you just need to do it 30 days upfront to the next renewal or you need to pay another month.

    yet there is no signed form required for a cancellation anymore.

    BUT if you want to get a REFUND during the initial 30 days, they ask you to claim on their satisfaction guarantue in the way described - with a written form.

    these are two things here you would not want to mess up. one is a regular cancellation and the other one is a refund/satisfaction guarantue.

    obviously netcup support clearly told OP how to claim the satisfaction guarantue to get out of the contract AND on top get a full refund. it could have been so easy to just sign+scan that form and send it to them, no?

    PS: and yes they are strict about unpaid bills and might send debt collectors - other providers might be more relaxed about such things. on the other hand if you pick a random complain thread here it is often enough about refunds and providers holding on to their 5 bucks because they exclude refund in their tos. not much better though ;-D

    Cheers, then that's a wrap then!

  • @eramax said: I see everyone are blaming me.

    There are many people here on LET who use or have used netcup in the past without such problems. Are you simply exceptionally unlucky -- a bizarre inexplicable event has happened to you, whereas everyone else has been spared? Or are you just feeling sorry for yourself? And if this started in May, then why wait until now to open a thread? You clearly have let the problem persist and get worse over several months.

    Frankly, I can't tell the whole story from your opening comment. It's not clear to me whether you wanted to take advantage of the 14-day refund policy (which in Germany corresponds to returning an unused purchased item within 14 days), or whether you wanted to cancel the VPS in the normal way (which at netcup requires at least 30 days in advance). Either way, it sounds like you didn't do what was required in a timely manner.

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  • @eramax said: Why netcup didn't show me or clearfiy all these rules when i ordered, they just had a checkbox for agree on TOS, but they should tell me there is something you should agree in a short messages not checkbox for all TOS.

    You also read https://www.netcup.eu/bestellen/agb.php , didn't you?

    In any case, one of the advantages on LET is that if you have a question regarding how to cancel, etc. at netcup, there are netcup users here who are happy to help, so you really could have tried to ask months ago if something wasn't clear to you.

    "[...] the Linux philosophy is 'laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong one. 'Do it yourself'. That's it." (L. Torvalds)

  • deankdeank Member
    edited October 11

    A fine example of a tool, OP is.

    The first thing a new host lies about: "We" when it's "Me".

  • NeoonNeoon Member

    Well, to be fair, to bind costumers to contracts, is a old fashioned.
    This is 2018, it should be easy, to ask for a refund, or terminate the service.

    A lot of providers, give you a refund when you just ask on there ticket system.
    Some providers, still do it the old fashioned way, and lock you down in contracts.

    This also includes, that you need to send a letter, to get a refund, which basically should keep people away from asking for it. Its not that easy, you need to put more afford into it.

    But on the other side, you signed a contract with them, they just claim what you signed. And you refuse to comply.

    Netcup is fair on payments, until a certain point where you really fuck up.

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  • YuraYura Member

    @AnthonySmith said:
    Sadly though Germany specifically seems stuck in 1974

    That's not the worst year for Germany to get stuck in...

  • Thanks everyone, I wrote this to clarify this situation to avoid you from this situation when you deal with netcup.

    and I am feeling sorry because of this situation and this provider.

    thanks for your advice.

    Thanked by 1AMXRT
  • @Neoon said:
    Well, to be fair, to bind costumers to contracts, is a old fashioned.
    This is 2018, it should be easy, to ask for a refund, or terminate the service.

    A lot of providers, give you a refund when you just ask on there ticket system.
    Some providers, still do it the old fashioned way, and lock you down in contracts.

    Well, just to be clear, any respectable provider has a ToS, which is a contract, so in this sense, contracts are not at all old-fashioned.

    As for refunds, providers differ a bit on this, but virtually no provider will grant a refund beyond 30 days, and most providers give much less time than this.

    This also includes, that you need to send a letter, to get a refund, which basically should keep people away from asking for it. Its not that easy, you need to put more afford into it.

    I guess that the OP originally wanted to cancel within 14 days and get a refund, but for this he was asked to fill out a form to send in, which he never did.

    It's true that many users seemed confused by the distinction between "cancel a VPS within 14 days unused and get a refund" and "cancel a VPS at the end of the contract period after using it", which may seem like a particularly German distinction, but it's also a distinction made in other countries, for example, France. (See also @Falzo's comment above.)

    But on the other side, you signed a contract with them, they just claim what you signed. And you refuse to comply.

    Netcup is fair on payments, until a certain point where you really fuck up.

    All true.

    "[...] the Linux philosophy is 'laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong one. 'Do it yourself'. That's it." (L. Torvalds)

  • deankdeank Member
    edited October 11

    Don't ever get a mortgage or any type of loans. You will be in a rude awakening.

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  • I personally feel bad for OP. I'm sure we as a community can muster up some dineros to help him/her pay their debt to Netcup. Dip into the LET Slush Fund if need be.

    All in favour?

  • @shallownorthdakota said:
    I personally feel bad for OP. I'm sure we as a community can muster up some dineros to help him/her pay their debt to Netcup. Dip into the LET Slush Fund if need be.

    All in favour?

    Aye. Provider should be more humane , if the client doesn't pay. Just suspend it's service and move on. easy.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider
    edited October 11

    @yokowasis said:

    @shallownorthdakota said:
    I personally feel bad for OP. I'm sure we as a community can muster up some dineros to help him/her pay their debt to Netcup. Dip into the LET Slush Fund if need be.

    All in favour?

    Aye. Provider should be more humane , if the client doesn't pay. Just suspend it's service and move on. easy.

    Humane? As if they are killing or torturing him or her by asking to respect the mutual agreement?

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  • @yokowasis said:

    @shallownorthdakota said:
    I personally feel bad for OP. I'm sure we as a community can muster up some dineros to help him/her pay their debt to Netcup. Dip into the LET Slush Fund if need be.

    All in favour?

    Aye. Provider should be more humane , if the client doesn't pay. Just suspend it's service and move on. easy.

    You should become a provider and practice this policy for a few years and get back to us about how this works in practice.

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  • edited October 11

    @eramax, are your VPS still active until now?

  • imokimok Member

    ErawanArifNugroho said: Previously, i saw a TOS that cancellation needed a mail sent to them, or some form to sign and mail to them.

    There is a button and you have to click it with 30 days in advance, that is, you will have to pay a new invoice after you take the decision.

    Janitor @ Netflix

  • NeoonNeoon Member
    edited October 11

    @angstrom said:
    You should become a provider and practice this policy for a few years and get back to us about how this works in practice.

    Well, the same stuff with doors, if a door is easy to use, why the fuck do you need a PULL sign on it? or push?

    Simply, because its not easy to understand or to use, or why the fuck you put a pull handle on a door, that needs to be pushed.

    People will run into that, often, some providers even received a lot of bad ratings, since they really enforced that policy to everyone who missed to pay.

    Some even wanted, to have it send via fax machine, and the fax was most of the time on hold. So you could not send shit.

    Total disaster, anyway, just make it prepaid, less hassle for you and your costumers.
    I really hate norman doors.

  • Pay that sum, close your account and ask them to delete your personal data with proof of that action as per GDPR. Than forget them.

    Netcup bierocracy apparatus is one big clunky crap. As soon as you discover this -> run, run away to such providers as Hetzner, DO, Vultr etc.

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  • deankdeank Member

    Be sure to do the same to LET. Open a support ticket and ask them to delete your account & data.

    The first thing a new host lies about: "We" when it's "Me".

  • @Neoon said:

    @angstrom said:
    You should become a provider and practice this policy for a few years and get back to us about how this works in practice.

    Well, the same stuff with doors, if a door is easy to use, why the fuck do you need a PULL sign on it? or push?

    Simply, because its not easy to understand or to use, or why the fuck you put a pull handle on a door, that needs to be pushed.

    People will run into that, often, some providers even received a lot of bad ratings, since they really enforced that policy to everyone who missed to pay.

    Some even wanted, to have it send via fax machine, and the fax was most of the time on hold. So you could not send shit.

    Total disaster, anyway, just make it prepaid, less hassle for you and your costumers.
    I really hate norman doors.

    Am not entirely certain whether you agree with me or disagree with me ...

    In any case, no one forces anyone to use netcup.

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  • @LTniger said: Netcup bierocracy apparatus is one big clunky crap. As soon as you discover this -> run, run away to such providers as Hetzner, DO, Vultr etc.

    ... and see what happens when you break their ToSes!

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  • mfsmfs Member

    The more I read this thread, the more I want to buy even more netcup services.

  • NeoonNeoon Member

    @angstrom said:
    Am not entirely certain whether you agree with me or disagree with me ...

    In any case, no one forces anyone to use netcup.

    That was just a commentary, on the run that policy.

    @mfs said:
    The more I read this thread, the more I want to buy even more netcup services.

    Netcup is decent.

  • FR_MichaelFR_Michael Member, Provider
    edited October 11

    @AnthonySmith said:

    Timtimo13 said: Living in Germany. Most companies force you to print a doc, sign it, scan it and send it by fax or registered mail. Some companies give you an online form to fill in and your contract get canceled though.

    Yep, its a very 1974 thing to request is all for such a generally advanced forward thinking nation.

    I mean.. a fax.. seriously, I am not defending the OP here but if you can sign up online, pay online, you damn well should be able to cancel online as well, its just common sense.

    There are new rules in germany (i believe since 2016?) If you "sign" a contract online the company is forced to accept an "online" cancellation request.

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  • @mfs said:
    The more I read this thread, the more I want to buy even more netcup services.

    netcup's services are predictable (in the positive sense), and their products (especially their promotions) have a very good quality/price ratio, which is why people sign up in the first place.

    But if the idea of needing to cancel at least 30 days in advance of the end of the contract seems unspeakably harsh, then it would be best to never sign up in the first place.

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  • YuraYura Member

    @FR_Michael said:

    @AnthonySmith said:

    Timtimo13 said: Living in Germany. Most companies force you to print a doc, sign it, scan it and send it by fax or registered mail. Some companies give you an online form to fill in and your contract get canceled though.

    Yep, its a very 1974 thing to request is all for such a generally advanced forward thinking nation.

    I mean.. a fax.. seriously, I am not defending the OP here but if you can sign up online, pay online, you damn well should be able to cancel online as well, its just common sense.

    There are new rules in germany (i believe since 2016?) If you "sign" a contract online the company is forced to accept an "online" cancellation request.

    That would totally makes sense. Why would politicians make such a law?

  • FR_MichaelFR_Michael Member, Provider
    edited October 11

    @Yura said:

    @FR_Michael said:

    @AnthonySmith said:

    Timtimo13 said: Living in Germany. Most companies force you to print a doc, sign it, scan it and send it by fax or registered mail. Some companies give you an online form to fill in and your contract get canceled though.

    Yep, its a very 1974 thing to request is all for such a generally advanced forward thinking nation.

    I mean.. a fax.. seriously, I am not defending the OP here but if you can sign up online, pay online, you damn well should be able to cancel online as well, its just common sense.

    There are new rules in germany (i believe since 2016?) If you "sign" a contract online the company is forced to accept an "online" cancellation request.

    That would totally makes sense. Why would politicians make such a law?

    They were forced by the "Verbraucherschutz" (not sure if consumer protection is the correct translation but these guys keep on sue people and companies for violations against consumer interests)

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  • angstromangstrom Member
    edited October 11

    @FR_Michael said:

    @AnthonySmith said:

    Timtimo13 said: Living in Germany. Most companies force you to print a doc, sign it, scan it and send it by fax or registered mail. Some companies give you an online form to fill in and your contract get canceled though.

    Yep, its a very 1974 thing to request is all for such a generally advanced forward thinking nation.

    I mean.. a fax.. seriously, I am not defending the OP here but if you can sign up online, pay online, you damn well should be able to cancel online as well, its just common sense.

    There are new rules in germany (i believe since 2016?) If you "sign" a contract online the company is forced to accept an "online" cancellation request.

    I don't think that they literally required a fax to be sent.

    It may be that for the within-14-days-refund, netcup wanted a signature, which could have been scanned and sent by email.

    Remember, to simply cancel a service at netcup, you just click on a button.

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  • edited October 11

    @angstrom said:

    @mfs said:
    The more I read this thread, the more I want to buy even more netcup services.

    netcup's services are predictable (in the positive sense), and their products (especially their promotions) have a very good quality/price ratio, which is why people sign up in the first place.

    But if the idea of needing to cancel at least 30 days in advance of the end of the contract seems unspeakably harsh, then it would be best to never sign up in the first place.

    I agree with you, it not make sense if you buy it only for one month. Should I cancel the service immediately after I buy it in order to use the service only for one month?

  • @angstrom said:

    @yokowasis said:

    @shallownorthdakota said:
    I personally feel bad for OP. I'm sure we as a community can muster up some dineros to help him/her pay their debt to Netcup. Dip into the LET Slush Fund if need be.

    All in favour?

    Aye. Provider should be more humane , if the client doesn't pay. Just suspend it's service and move on. easy.

    You should become a provider and practice this policy for a few years and get back to us about how this works in practice.

    I've been a provider for 3 years and it works great. chasing down a client who obviously doesn't want or can't pay for the invoice is just not worth my time. And I can name a dozen of provider who does the same ( that is terminating the service , continue with life , and forget that customer ).

    If your way of providing is to chase the client to the rabbit hole, then who am I to judge.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider

    @LTniger said:
    Pay that sum, close your account and ask them to delete your personal data with proof of that action as per GDPR. Than forget them.

    Netcup bierocracy apparatus is one big clunky crap. As soon as you discover this -> run, run away to such providers as Hetzner, DO, Vultr etc.

    You are aware that the data on the invoice cannot be removed for as long as legally required to be held (6 years in the UK, presumably similar in Germany) so it’s just a waiste of time for the OP to do it, right ?

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  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider
    edited October 11

    @mfs said:
    The more I read this thread, the more I want to buy even more netcup services.

    I’m also considering. Never too many of remote monitoring points, and they are clearly a solid business.

    @chocolateshirt said:

    @angstrom said:

    @mfs said:
    The more I read this thread, the more I want to buy even more netcup services.

    netcup's services are predictable (in the positive sense), and their products (especially their promotions) have a very good quality/price ratio, which is why people sign up in the first place.

    But if the idea of needing to cancel at least 30 days in advance of the end of the contract seems unspeakably harsh, then it would be best to never sign up in the first place.

    I agree with you, it not make sense if you buy it only for one month. Should I cancel the service immediately after I buy it in order to use the service only for one month?

    Yep. Exactly same as if you would with a pay monthly mobile phone contract with 30 days notice and no minimum term. Nice and easy.

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  • I had services with netcup, pretty satisfied, and was not required to send a scanned copy of cancellation form when I wanted to cancel it.

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • @yokowasis said: I've been a provider for 3 years and it works great. chasing down a client who obviously doesn't want or can't pay for the invoice is just not worth my time.

    But: If such a client returned to you for a new service, would you accept them, excusing the past unpaid invoice?

    If yes, then there's a real difference between what you practice and what netcup practice.

    If no, then there's no real difference between what you practice and what netcup practice.

    It's a question of detail whether a provider chooses to "chase down" a client who hasn't paid their invoice. This will partly depend on where the client resides in relation to the provider and on the amount of the invoice. In many cases, it may not be worth the effort for a provider to "chase down" a client.

    The OP didn't say that netcup had "chased him down". We don't know whether this will happen if he continues to not pay the invoice.

    "[...] the Linux philosophy is 'laugh in the face of danger'. Oops. Wrong one. 'Do it yourself'. That's it." (L. Torvalds)

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