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Hosted mail server
All,
I have recommended mxRoute for a number of clients with whom I work - none of whom are spammers. One of the clients recently had a number of emails bounce, so we asked Jarland about the problem. He replied:
I'm sorry for the trouble on this. AT&T, Verizon, and Earthlink have joined together to block a large portion of the internet from emailing their customers. At this stage we have gone ahead and declared defeat due to excessively rising costs of third party email relays to reach their service (though we'll privately continue to urge them to actually care about their customers). We would encourage customers of these services to use a different email service or to call their ISP to complain about their unfair blocks. These are, unfortunately, not the result of anything we've done against them. They have blocked any IP space we have used since the day we started, and only through MailChannels were we able to reach them for a time.
As for the Microsoft ones, they claim they're not blocking us and then well you see that isn't quite true. Hoping for a resolution to that today. It's a bit odd because they will accept email from the same IP that they claim is blocked, right before and after returning that message.
While I truly appreciate Jarland's efforts, this has me very concerned. Should we be looking for another hosting company? What assurances do we have, if any, that they too are not experiencing the same issue? What thoughts/recommendations can you offer?
Thanks.
Comments
@jar no chance of setting up a smarthost for these troublesome ISPs? (just a little interested) :-)
This happens with many DC ranges, it's a reason why I use Amazon SES now for sending, the big corps don't block Amazon and my mail hasn't been blocked ever since I started using SES. In the past I've tried sending from multiple networks, the IPs had perfect reputation and some over a year of sending rep to the providers, no blacklists for years either. Microsoft is the worst, even if you have your IPs added to their verified sender network thing for a long time they still block it.
Mxroute isn't using Mailchannels at all anymore?
https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/150335/mxroute-alive-in-2018-and-giving-you-2-years-of-service-for-30-recurring/p1
Some bumps and bruises but we'll be able to maintain competitive edge on our new in-house setup
Thanks @angstrom didn't follow LET this summer ;-)
@Jar you'll probably be more competitive that way, being able to keep prices low while staying profitable
It's unfortunate, but the OP's experience is exactly why I'm moving off of mxroute. The move off of mailchannels has not been kind to my delivery needs and after opening a ticket about problems, I have to wait 5-7 days on average for anyone to reply. (Only to not be very helpful.) I require being able to send to @vtext.com and att.com, so having them blocked with no resolution is not acceptable.
Only solution to that is to use a large company I'm afraid. Someone who can put so much pressure on them that they just can't reject their emails. Wish it were different, will keep advocating for change, but you can't make a company care about it's customers when it doesn't. The sad part is that everyone will do just that and consider everyone else to be the bad guys instead of writing off services that have specifically chosen not to deliver email to their customers. This will further enforce the environment in which your choices are Google, Microsoft, or no one... dictated by AT&T and Verizon. Supported by customers.
Eventually someone has to hold them accountable and draw a line in the sand to say "If you care about receiving email, you can't use services that don't care if you receive it." It's the only way to improve the internet. People shouldn't have to pay more and more money just because AT&T runs an incompetent postmaster team.
I totally get it, I just long for a day in which we stand against the people who are actually making the internet difficult to use, instead of standing against the people who are trying to free us from it. It's reasons like this that RBL organizations effectively have unlimited power over how you receive the internet. One day we have to say enough is enough when it's unfair and uncalled for.
I'm extremely grateful to my customers that are helping put pressure on them by treating them as the villains that they are in this situation. When we're successful, we'll have built together a stronger competition for the marketplace, and I'll be one step closer to being able to pass that on to customers with the SMTP relay service. The train only stops if everyone gets off, but until then it's full steam ahead to declare there must be more than only large corporations as choices.
Feel free to add pressure:
Edit: Btw, Microsoft has been the absolute best and most cooperative in this venture. They are actually being incredibly awesome.
That's pretty surprising.
I'm having a lot of Tawk offline messages that are being received marked as spam and blocked. Unsure as to why and it only started about a week ago...
They blocked us, then kept saying they weren't blocking us. They accepted some emails and rejected others, sometimes back to back opposite results. Haven't seen any recent rejections as of this morning, they're being talkative about it with me. Working on SNDS and JMRP but their form does RIPE lookups and they're rate limited for the lookups every day so working on solution to that.
I'm having active success at inbox delivery there right now, but of course with their filters it's hard to know why one thing lands in inbox and another in spam (esp. with their own emails to me being in their own spam folder). IP reputation work can only positively impact it though.
That's a good thing at least. I'm hoping it doesn't take too long to resolve.
EDIT: Seems everything forwarded from gmail is being blocked as spam currently?
From or to? Shouldn't be failing to, IPs are rotating and the relays have fallbacks set.
Edit: Found a routing optimization to make on the relay paths that should prevent it if you did see this on outbound. Had mail halting at one new relay and not successfully pushing to next relay in line on delivery failure.
Mails from Gmail to MXRoute were being rejected for spam.
Probably specific to the situation then, inbound is still just spamassassin with a reject score at 10.
EDIT: Email from MXRoute to Gmail is being rejected as well. Seems it was just a couple from gmail to mxroute. Whatever, I'm hoping it can be fixed given just a bit of time if not then I'll need to shift this email over to some other service.
Made some changes, posting a changelog for them in a moment.
https://headwayapp.co/mxroute-changelog
Appreciate it. I understand MXRoute is a budget focused product and it certainly serves it's purpose really well. I'm fully satisfied with the product and hiccups to happen and frankly surprised that so few hiccups have happened thus far.
Hopefully this marks the end of them while I continue to work on improvements. It's concerning if you ever receive a bounce for IP reputation tbh, with AT&T/Verizon (and companies under them) being the exception (but also mitigated at this moment).
Try @mailcheap service: mailcheap.co
Been using them without any delivery issues.
are they (att, verizon, etc) refused email from mxroute or accept the email but put it as junk (spam) ?
even with gmail, github collaborator invitation marked as spam.
spam fight is getting ridiculous.
AT&T and Verizon (and the companies they've purchased) block large portions of the internet from emailing their ISP users (who use their ISP email) with no rhyme or reason from an external perspective. Total block of IP space. Finding IPs in the wild that deliver to them can happen, but there's no guarantee that they won't block the whole netblock tomorrow (and forever) because one user set up a forwarder. AT&T ignores requests, Verizon calls every IP range "dynamic" and then after arguing claims to remove the block, then doesn't and stops talking.
Same story on various IP ranges from different providers. Reaching them is either temporary luck or using email provided by large corporations that they whitelist. Frankly I don't understand why anyone would even want to use their email if they were just informed about this. I mean, if your local ISP pop gets bought out (and it often happens), you lose that ISP email anyway. Worst email address to ever use for anything important.
Anyway, should be mitigated for now but if my customers do not help by treating them as the proper recipient of complaints, so that they eventually treat us fairly, this isn't something I will pay increasing amounts of money for. They must not be allowed to dictate the market for email. If anyone should ultimately dictate it, it should be good people trying to use email for fair and intended purposes.
@jar
change.org ?
Yeah, not to mention that using an email address from an ISP also has the effect of locking one into that ISP -- where an ordinary customer feels that they'd better not switch to another ISP because of their reliance on the email address provided by their current ISP.
No changes here. I'm sure you'll fix it but I think I'll need to move it from MXRoute
I don't understand, everything failing should be going to MailChannels. Happy to take a deeper look if you're able to open a ticket with more information.
The Email world is now ruled by the big guys like a mafia, monopolized and manipulated the way they want. Thanks to spammers... now we have a bigger problem that even your business email needs to be with the big guys only.
Let's fight it. I'm not above protests outside their offices.
I gave up on that quite a few years ago (after a really good fight).
I don't mean to be pessimistic but I really think the time and energy wasted vs. meager results... that too not for long and sure, I guess you'll make much better with something else