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VirtEngine v2: Open Source Hybrid Cloud Management Demo
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VirtEngine v2: Open Source Hybrid Cloud Management Demo

DETioDETio Member
edited August 2018 in General

Hello Everyone,

We have recently partnered with OpenNode as a base for the next version of VirtEngine, v2 release. The demo below is of the Open Source Software version of VirtEngine v2 (Based on Waldur System), the difference between our Open Source Products and Licensed products is that Billing and Billing Related plugins are disabled without a license key.

Have a look at the demo here:

If you'd like to give it a test, let us know.

Comparison of features/pricing between v1 & v2:

Best Regards -
DETio & OpenNode

Comments

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    Some more information about VirtEngine v2:

    VirtEngine v2 (Waldur) is very modular and offers plugin support, the current plugins are currently supported / planned:

    • OpenStack

    • OpenNebula (1-2 Month eta)

    • Kubernetes - Managed Containers (1-2 Month eta)

    • ProxMox (2-3 Month eta)

    • RackN - Automated BareMetal (3-6 Month eta)

    • Billing Integration (Licensed)

    • Paypal (Licensed)

    • WHMCS / Blesta (1-2 Month eta, Licensed)

    • Atlassian Jira Service Desk

    • More Helpdesks

    • AWS

    • Digital Ocean

    • MS Azure

    • SLURM

    • Digital Marketplace

  • Wouldn't mind messing around with it if it supports proxmox + cloud.

  • At $30 per node, even Virtualizor looks compelling.

  • dragon2611 said: Wouldn't mind messing around with it if it supports proxmox + cloud.

    I'll be in touch when ProxMox is supported,

    doghouch said: At $30 per node, even Virtualizor looks compelling.

    If you're an existing provider using SolusVM/Virtualizor and would like to move to VirtEngine in the future once our migration tools are finalized, we would be happy to discount our service to match a closer rate.

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    Anyone interested in VirtEngine v2 Open Source check the following:

    VirtEngine-Waldur Source Code:
    github.com/virtengine

    Documentation:
    https://virtengine.com/VirtEngine_Waldur_Documentation.pdf

    Any feedback would be appreciated, we are working on improving the UI with a new Digital Marketplace and much more enhancements :-)

    The digital marketplace will contain a large catalog of applications (you can easily add your own) that are served using Ansible Playbooks - you can currently deploy apps using the service store.

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    Virtual Private Cloud Support:

    Marketplace Coming Soon:

  • That looks really similar to OVH's panel

  • vovler said: That looks really similar to OVH's panel

    Hope that's not a bad thing :D, but the portal is also Open Source so any modifications that a provider wants to make is possible: https://github.com/virtengine/ve-portal-v2

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    VirtEngine Waldur Admin Area:

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    DETio said: If you're an existing provider using SolusVM/Virtualizor and would like to move to VirtEngine in the future once our migration tools are finalized, we would be happy to discount our service to match a closer rate.

    They have thousands of customers each, can you name 5 - 10 known hosts using this panel so we can check on the end user experience?

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    AnthonySmith said: They have thousands of customers each, can you name 5 - 10 known hosts using this panel so we can check on the end user experience?

    We just released this version, it's being deployed by a few hosting providers (Indonesia, Ukraine, India, Kenya, US, and more - I'll share who they are once it's operational) but some are waiting for WHMCS (existing providers using it).

    Through OpenNode there is governmental use from Estonia, Bangladesh & Oman - as well as a few enterprises.

    We also have Forcier Consulting evaluating our platform if it's viable for use by their partners.

    I'll PM you login details so you can test out the UI in depth.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    ok so unused in the wild, untested in production, no reputation to speak of more expensive than established brands with no real migration path.

    hire a business manager or fire your current one.

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    AnthonySmith said: ok so unused in the wild, untested in production, no reputation to speak of more expensive than established brands with no real migration path.

    This version is actually tested in production, it's just not used in the wild in terms of hosting providers. Since OpenNode's target market is enterprises / governments not hosting providers.

    Regarding pricing we are going to stick with this as our final pricing for small setups - it also includes support for opennebula & openstack:

    $10/mo/node - 32GB Ram-

    $15/mo/node - 64GB Ram

    $20/mo/node - 128GB Ram

    $25/mo/node - 256GB Ram+

    Bulk node pricing - 15 nodes+ / Unlimited Nodes licenses will be available.

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    One last thing we could do to help the hosting community is provide ~4 months free use of VirtEngine in production.

  • YuraYura Member

    @AnthonySmith said:
    hire a business manager or fire your current one.

    Last time he asked a feedback on webdesign of his site and I told him to get a web developer, he threw a fist and said he has decades of experience and who am I to tell him what to do with his own site. It's a lost cause, Ant.

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    Yura said: Last time he asked a feedback on webdesign of his site and I told him to get a web developer, he threw a fist and said he has decades of experience and who am I to tell him what to do with his own site. It's a lost cause, Ant.

    Never said I have decades of experience on web design, I just said I'd prefer to leave the design the way it is for the moment and work on it my self based on feedback.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    DETio said: it's just not used in the wild in terms of hosting providers.

    And I am telling you why, and your still not addressing the fact that no one uses your panel, you are essentially unknown, have no reputation, your price of entry is higher and you have no migration process.

    Seriously, just think about that...

    Now imagine someone is trying to convince you to by a new car named the spiffy blubber F150, it claims to be better than other cars but you have never seen one, you know no one that has one, you cant find any independent info online it costs a significant amount more than a similar well known brand and the real kicker is, you have to keep your old car, potentially forever paying all its associated bills, the family never knows which car they are going to be using from day to day because learning to drive the new one is a significant learning curve you simply cannot just transfer your knowledge over to the new spiffy blubber F150.

    When you point out everything that is wrong with the idea of buying the new unknown car, the salesman offers you a small discount but it is still ultimately a significant amount more than a trusted brand that requires no massive adaption to start using and it will not upset your family either.

    Do you say yes?

    If so, I have some magic beans PM for prices.

    Thanked by 2willie aglodek
  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    AnthonySmith said: And I am telling you why, and your still not addressing the fact that no one uses your panel, you are essentially unknown, have no reputation, your price of entry is higher and you have no migration process.

    We have a handful of hosting providers looking to deploy now, our price of entry is cheaper than the following alternatives: OnApp, Virtuozzo, Jelastic, VMWare. - The reason why is simply because we have only released v2 a couple days ago.. v1 never reached production grade software so we never released it.

    For large deployments we are happy to offer an unlimited license at the cost of around ~40 dense nodes.

    Sure we don't have a reputation yet or the platform is not as tested as you'd like, but we're only just starting and everyone has to start somewhere.

    A 4-5 month free production run should help you clarify if our platform is worth running or not.

    So think about it like someone giving you a free car to ride for the next 5 months and you can decide whether to keep it or not - no strings attached?

    And you also have access to vet the code your self if you want to see the structure of our platform.

  • hostfavhostfav Member, Host Rep

    @DETio I think you just need to wait for your production ready product with migration path and all other types of virtualization support.

    Most of the providers are running their virtual infrastructure using OnApp, Virtuozzo, Jelastic, VMWare or Proxmox and have existing customers, why should they take a risk?

    DETio said: $10/mo/node - 32GB Ram

    Your product is not cheap.

    We are running few Proxmox clusters. Each cluster has few nodes and each node has 64GB - 256GB ram.

    Right now we are paying only $119/year flat. We have been using this module since 2015 and we know how to fix this module.

    Your service will cost us around $6000.00/year and more if we add more node and dc with ∞ risk

    DETio said: So think about it like someone giving you a free car to ride for the next 5 months and you can decide whether to keep it or not - no strings attached?

    If a free car for 5 months I will take it.

    For 5 months business rick, I will not take.

    You did a great job and added a lot of features but we need prove that they are working in production, not by you by other providers.

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    hostfav said: Your product is not cheap.

    We could possibly drop our pricing to the following especially for early adopters:

    $10/mo/node - 64GB Ram-

    $15/mo/node - 128GB Ram

    $25/mo/node - 256GB Ram+

    This along with bulk discounts between 15 - 60 nodes (starting at 10% to 25%)

    And finally capping at 80 nodes (with an unlimited license) - so around $800/mo ($10/node at that stage).

    Let's compare the above pricing with other options in the market:

    5x128GB Nodes, 10x64GB Nodes, 3x256GB Nodes,

    Total: 2TB Memory

    Total Nodes: 18 Nodes

    Avg Memory/node: 113GB - How we calculate cost

    Cost per node: $13/mo

    Discount: 10%,

    Total After Discount: $211/mo

    SolusVM Cost: $180/mo

    Virtualizor Cost: $170/mo

    OnApp Cost: Minimum is $1k/mo I heard (Educate me if I'm wrong)..

    Virtuozzo: atleast $900/mo

    Jelastic: $2.5k Setup + $500/mo

    The only cheaper options are WHMCS + a Module.

  • @DETio At $800/mo, wouldn’t it make more sense for a company to just have a panel developed in-house?

    As for my Virtualizor comment: I’m not an actual provider. I was trying to say that I hate Virtualizor (but still less than your ‘production-ready’ panel).

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    doghouch said: @DETio At $800/mo, wouldn’t it make more sense for a company to just have a panel developed in-house?

    It's pretty expensive to maintain and build your own panel, $800/mo is actually not too expensive for bigger deployments since it includes support which you most likely won't be able to get anywhere else at a close rate.

    There's lots of providers with over 100 nodes using SolusVM (Paying $1k/mo+), if it was easy to build their own panel it would of been done more frequently now.

    It's not uncommon in business for crucial software stacks to cost at least $1k/mo+, this is because a lot of development has gone into it to ensure it solves the clients issues.

    Imagine hiring a developer, best case scenario is he takes 6 months to build you a nice panel that takes care of your basic needs. In most western countries - it would cost at least $6-7K USD a month for a senior developer that knows what he's doing and which you can rely on - oh and don't forget, as a company you need to continue working with that developer who built your whole stack because you have no one else to solve issues when things go on fire.

    Some companies that have their own platforms, like Packet.net - have large teams of developers, (in dozens) working on the product - but that's because they are innovating heavily and working on bleeding edge technology.

  • williewillie Member
    edited August 2018

    The 4 month free offer will be a huge help to people interested in checking out the product, but if you're trying to displace an incumbent it helps to explain why your panel is much better (not just slightly better since it's not worth the switching costs in that case) since it's about the same price.

    I remember a sales guy who would do presentations about his product, comparing it against the competition on all sorts of metrics, calculating stuff, and coming to the conclusion that his thing was 4x better than the existing thing. Of course he could have designed the pitch to reach any ratio he wanted. He said he always chose 4x because if he said it was 8x better, he wouldn't be taken seriously; but if it was only 2x better, then they'd decide it wasn't a big enough benefit to be worth switching from something they knew and that worked. 4x was small enough to be believable but big enough to justify a switch, so that is what worked best.

    That makes me ask: is your thing 4x better than Solus, and if yes, how? ;-)

    Thanked by 1aglodek
  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    willie said: That makes me ask: is your thing 4x better than Solus, and if yes, how? ;-)

    It's hard to put it in exact numbers of how much better it is than SolusVM, but it would be easier to list out the functionality it does which isn't available in SolusVM.

    First, let's look at the following functionality / points that are not present in SolusVM

    • Teams, Organizations, and Projects

    Do your clients like structure? Your users have the Ability to have collaborators such as multiple employees, ability to audit who's done what actions, and ability to easily monitor the whole project's resource consumption and spending.

    • Application Orchestration

    Do your clients like automation? Ability to deploy any application using Ansible Playbooks, either their own playbooks or prepackaged Applications that you have added to the service store/digital marketplace.

    • Digital Marketplace

    Do you want to sell licenses? Your own software or 3rd party cloud services that are automatically provisioned.

    • Virtual Private Cloud/Virtual Data Center Plans

    Do you want to sell Resource Plans to your users and have them carve up the resources the way they want?

    • Full Control on Cloud Infrastructure

    Do you want to give users access to a full Cloud Environment, based on an integrated environment - this means users can login directly to OpenStack or OpenNebula and have full control on the functionality this software offers with large communities surrounding them.

    • Open Source Core/UI & Modular

    Do you want to be able to build your own custom plugins, or use plugins that are built by the community / other clients? The more we grow, the more contributors our code-base gets due to it's open source nature.

    • Large range of Open Source Cloud Technology through our ecosystem (OpenStack / OpenNebula)

    Do you want to offer your users a cloud with the exact Technological Tools picked out? For example, the exact Storage, Networking, and Hypervisor Software that you want to choose.

    Both OpenStack & OpenNebula offer a good choice of options for Storage, Networking, and Hypervisors. Both OpenNebula & OpenStack are also enterprise grade software. OpenNebula / OpenStack support a very large list of features SolusVM doesn't, so you get to benefit from the open source community directly.

    • Self-Serve & Hourly Billing

    Do you want to offer your users the ability to launch and manage VMs, Apps, Virtual Private Cloud Plans - all on Demand, without having to prepay for a whole month?

    • A refreshed User Experience

    Do you want to give your users a professional user experience when managing their Cloud Environment?

    • Exclusive Functionality that you won't find elsewhere -

    Things like the ability for your users to import existing VM Workloads from AWS, Azure, and DigitalOcean - or things like selling Automated Hourly Bare-Metal, like Packet.net - and things like Auto Scaling Applications - which launch new instances and load balances them for the users automatically. These features are all under development (Migration / Bare-Metal and / Auto Scaling).

    • Extensive Software Functionality

    VirtEngine Waldur isn't simple like our previous release, it's got depth and a large amount of functionality supported.

    So yes there is a decent amount of improvements you will notice over using a legacy product like SolusVM.

    Let's agree on the 4x ;)

    Thanked by 1aglodek
  • williewillie Member
    edited August 2018

    DETio said: Let's agree on the 4x ;)

    I calculate 4.0435x, close enough :).

    Thanked by 2aglodek feezioxiii
  • LeviLevi Member

    Do I see word "Oracle" in screenshots?

  • LTniger said: Do I see word "Oracle" in screenshots?

    It's a managed https://www.oracle.com/database/index.html service mainly for enterprises.

  • There are some way to migrate from solusvm

  • DETioDETio Member
    edited August 2018

    smicroz said: There are some way to migrate from solusvm

    It's possible manually, but we want to automate it in the near future.

    We will let you guys know once automated SolusVM migration is possible.

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