LowEndTalk deleted Incero and SpeedyKVM thread? [EDIT]
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LowEndTalk deleted Incero and SpeedyKVM thread? [EDIT]

KrisKris Member
edited July 8 in General

So what happened to this thread?

A rogue lying moderator chimed in and gave some bullshit "I don't believe SpeedyKVM is an Incero brand"

It was a well developed thread, another moderator who wasn't shady or connected to Incero or the shits at SpeedyKVM modified the thread title to reflect - yes - SpeedyKVM is an Incero operation, with proof and that they refunded him.

Today : https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/148226/speedykvm-an-incero-company-cancelled-my-service-and-refunded-me#latest

Cleared. Deleted. Looks like Incero or SpeedyKVM got the corrupt moderator to delete the post totally.

Long story short: Guy ordered Anycast, was upfront about 3 locations and BGP announcements. After paying and requesting to be setup, the assholes realized he actually wanted Anycast, (perhaps for a CDN) and tried to extort $1000 to continue service.

So, what gives? This smells. I'm sure @Yura remembers the thread.

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Comments

  • KrisKris Member

    Mirrors for when this is deleted by some pissant mod because god forbid Incero is connected with SpeedyKVM and the scammy nature of their bait and switch:

    https://web.archive.org/web/20180708184320/https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/148373/lowendtalk-covering-up-for-incero-and-speedykvm

    http://archive.is/KTaLG

  • deankdeank Member

    It is all my fault.

    Blame me.

    Fran f0r 2020. U read it here first.

  • stefemanstefeman Member

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    @Kris thanks for your kind words and objectivity...

    I said to the OP in that thread:

    AnthonySmith said: if your next reply is not a full and complete posting of all interactions via ticket you can be sure this entire thread will be gone.

    Calm down, yes I caught your last line while typing this reply and I agree, he really can, but I don't like one sided agendas being pushed to suit an angry narrative.

    Really either way, Incero have a reputation and its not a new one for doing EXACTLY this, if you value your time do research on companies before you use them.

    On top of that another mod asked for some specifics to justify his SCAM claims, the OP decided to just spit more bile instead he chose not to provide further information, and I followed through and moved the thread out of public view.

    I also said to the other mod's if I got the wrong end of the stick, feel free to move it back.

    That is all there was to it, believe it or not we have lives outside of LET, we are just volunteers, not paid staff, we do not have any particular agenda, we are human and make mistakes.

    There is no doubt SpeedyKVM and Incero are the same company, that was debated and squashed within a few posts.

    Get a hold of your self and calm down.

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  • deankdeank Member
    edited July 8

    One of common problems in the threads that are linked is that -

    original posters in such threads really tend to throw in fantasy imaginations bundled with pieces of facts here & there.

    The whole thread smells like barbie poop but the OP certainly didn't help the situation by throwing in his level 1 high elf character. His posts had so much fat.

    Why is it so hard to be objective?

    Okay, I am going to be brutally objective on this: The end is nigh.

    Fran f0r 2020. U read it here first.

  • lazytlazyt Member

    Anthony told the OP to post more screenshots or the thread would be removed. It seems that the OP failed to do so and the thread was removed. Despite Anthony agreeing with the OP that Gorden could suck a wurst.

    If I remember right SpeedyKVM has a clause against anycast in their TOS.

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  • KrisKris Member

    AnthonySmith said: That is all there was to it, believe it or not we have lives outside of LET, we are just volunteers, not paid staff, we do not have any particular agenda, we are human and make mistakes.

    Whoops. If I had seen that, and a closed topic, I wouldn't have rolled out the tin foil. FWIW, you were the mod who came in and added that it was Incero, while another shadeball ran interference for them... who is also a moderator.

    It was rather straightforward from the tickets provided and lack of, he wanted to setup 3 anycast locations - purchased, and... turned away.

    Seemed like a productive interesting thread, things just seemed off when it was completely deleted. Why not close and let sink in Offtopic like the others is beyond me, but thanks for the explanation and your mod duties. It can't be fun, things just didn't pass the sniff test here.

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  • KrisKris Member

    lazyt said: If I remember right SpeedyKVM has a clause against anycast in their TOS.

    But in the ticket it was literally the first question. If they have an Anycast clause in their TOS, they shouldn't be answering pre-sales tickets for 3 locations with 'sure we can provide community support'

    Just covering up crappy unknowledgeable support with worse management if that's the case. It was the OP's first sentence. He's expanding his anycast footprint and interested in announcing BGP at their 3 locations.

    Sad management had their thumbs firmly up their asses on viewing tickets, or they could've avoided it. Instead, the poor guy purchased after doing due diligence and got Wabled.

  • vimalwarevimalware Member

    A quick Google reveals that Incero possibly has their own anycast video CDN services . (anycast.incero.com via https://www.incero.com/network)

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited July 8

    Yeah having just taken time to reread the thread perhaps removal was not the right choice, my personal stance is that he got bad advice from an L1 tech who answered his ISO question and ignored or did not understand the implications of the rest of it which obviously is not the OP's fault.

    Their own terms (which the OP agreed to in advance of parting with money) state:

    • For CDN style usage of three or more servers a gigabit unmetered package is required

    Then the next person "George" asked if he essentially wanted to pay for the rest of the setup he required, the problem here is that the OP decided to only do a partial share of that part of the ticket.

    Its not fun, my personal stance on Incero (which no doubt is well known) does not really matter they still deserve a fair crack of the whip when being criticized publicly and I just felt that the narrative was being forced when the effort to provide actual proof was very simple and the OP chose not to respond the the fact that he already agreed to the terms regarding the requirements for an anycast CDN and he himself had not purchased enough services to be allowed to run that.

    Again, I may well have this wrong, i am completely open to that as a real possibility so if the other staff feel differently, chime in or move the thread back to continue.

    If you want to consider changing this thread title that might be a good thing so we can have a discussion rather than a fight.

  • defaultdefault Member

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  • deankdeank Member

    Leave it locked. It's dead as Dodo.

    Fran f0r 2020. U read it here first.

  • KrisKris Member

    Locked and closed made sense given the OP didn't share full details. Enough though it was pretty clear what happened from the bits and pieces of screenshots.

    I just was puzzled why it was straight up deleted - usually reserved for fake reviews, etc.

    Beyond rational response, didn't come to get it re-opened, more was just wondering what happened as with the thread deleted I couldn't find it at all, or the comments I added.

    Thanks for the heads up @AnthonySmith

  • KrisKris Member

    AnthonySmith said: If you want to consider changing this thread title that might be a good thing so we can have a discussion rather than a fight.

    Changed to reflect it was just a deleted thread and not the conspiracy I thought.

    Thanks for the heads up, I didn't see the questions to OP or the thread closed with reason, so I jumped to conclusions.

  • teamaccteamacc Member

    @Kris said:

    I just was puzzled why it was straight up deleted - usually reserved for fake reviews, etc.

    Not deleted, just moved to the mod dump. Which is basically the windows recycling bin that no one ever empties and has infinite capacity.

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  • KrisKris Member

    teamacc said: Not deleted, just moved to the mod dump. Which is basically the windows recycling bin that no one ever empties and has infinite capacity.

    Infinite capacity? Must be on a different cluster than the one that hosts the polls :)

  • TheXOTheXO Member
    edited July 8

    I got my previous, full, active account deleted and wiped out when i argued with clouvider. And i ain't even angry. yay me.

  • PandyPandy Member
    edited July 8

    You both asked for more proof, but if, as the OP said, there we no other interactions other than the support ticket (that he linked publicly) and the 1000$ ticket (that was in a picture, probably was in a proper ticket rather than support ticket, which may be why it cant be viewed publicly) and OP wasnt happy with that and decided to just get refunded and get out (deleting account) then what could he show?

    if i remember correctly, the support ticker was over a month ago, where as the picture said it was 21h ago, there might be a disconnection there, unless he waited a month to order it, or the picture was a month old. but im only going by memory here

    //edit also i did get to read his long responses before it disappeared, so it may be that he just wants to get his point across, and not really willing to expand it on that, but still completely hiding it from everyone wasnt the right thing imo, it was already deindexed in offtopic iirc?

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  • williewillie Member
    edited July 8

    My inclination while that thread was still up was to close it and leave it up to Anthony whether to keep it visible, but I didn't get around to writing a comment, basically saying the same stuff as below:

    Nobody here likes SpeedyKVM but the intensity of that guy's vendetta was ridiculous. We don't know why they cancelled him other than his one-sided interpretation. If the tickets he wrote had the same level of invective as his LET posts, he would have deserved getting banned for that all by itself. Or maybe other relevant info was omitted. We can't know unless we see those tickets, and he had them deleted. That's just a life lesson in general: if you pursue a dispute with someone when you've deleted relevant evidence, that deletion at minimum will make your case look bad. So don't delete the evidence. The terms "spoliation" and "adverse inference" are used in analogous situations in the legal system. You can look them up.

  • YmpkerYmpker Member
    edited July 8

    Was gonna post something in the old (deleted) thread just after Anthonys message.
    Re-read and found out SpeedyKVM is banned. Found this thread https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/137536/incero-speedykvm-throws-the-ban-hammer-at-all-let-members/p1 . Don't have any further comment to make except that I was also a bit confused as to why it was deleted so far and not just closed or left in offtopic. Just my two cents anyway^^ I don't really know what I was gonna post anymore anyway.

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  • deankdeank Member

    The thread had so much racism anyway. Better leave it locked.

    Fran f0r 2020. U read it here first.

  • jsgjsg Member

    @TheXO said:
    I got my previous, full, active account deleted and wiped out when i argued with clouvider. And i ain't even angry. yay me.

    For the sake of fairness: Tagging @Clouvider

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  • deankdeank Member

    Tagging @Clouvider because jsg tagged him.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider

    Fran f0r 2020. U read it here first.

  • jsgjsg Member

    I don't know or care about that case but when "full, active account deleted and wiped out when i argued with [provider]" is said about a provider I feel said provider should at least know about it.

    The end is nigh anyway.

  • sleddogsleddog Member

    teamacc said: Which is basically the windows recycling bin that no one ever empties and has infinite capacity.

    Thanks for that. This afternoon I was working on a Windows 10 box that was a little buggered... it showed 6.4 EB in the recycle bin, with a 500 GB HDD.

  • mkshmksh Member

    @Kris said:

    AnthonySmith said: If you want to consider changing this thread title that might be a good thing so we can have a discussion rather than a fight.

    Changed to reflect it was just a deleted thread and not the conspiracy I thought.

    Thanks for the heads up, I didn't see the questions to OP or the thread closed with reason, so I jumped to conclusions.

    Would still be nice to know why Incero gets special treatment. People scream scam for no reason all the time and nothing is deleted/moved. At best the title gets adjusted and the thread closed. I guess i know why anyways but it would be nice to have it black on white.

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  • emghemgh Member

    Hoestly since they're policy is to ban our forum members and since OP provided a screen of the thousend dollar demand, as far as I remember, I see no reason for the thread to be removed. It's Inceros marketing fault that they don't join the discussion and explain their side of the story, we're not here to do that for them.

    On the other side, I do not think that the moderators that we have here are corrupt, however, I think that removing the thread was a bad call, or a call I didn't agree on. However that's called different opinions and not corruption.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited July 8

    mksh said: Would still be nice to know why Incero gets special treatment.

    There was no special treatment, you just happen to have noticed this one, a lot of moderation actions are taken daily around the clock, sometimes a decision hits a nerve with a handful of people which is unavoidable and people think there is some big injustice, its really not the case.

    Really across the board it boils down to this, in a lot of cases the community self moderates, for example: https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/148379/dewlance

    When it does not we do, the same action would have been taken regardless of the host.

    You can accept that or not, if not I doubt anything else I will have to say will convince you otherwise.

  • mkshmksh Member

    @AnthonySmith said:

    mksh said: Would still be nice to know why Incero gets special treatment.

    There was no special treatment, you just happen to have noticed this one, a lot of moderation actions are taken daily around the clock, sometimes a decision hits a nerve with a handful of people which is unavoidable and people think there is some big injustice, its really not the case.

    Oh, i am not that bothered. I just wanted to see what the explanation would be.

    Really across the board it boils down to this, in a lot of cases the community self moderates when it does not we do, the same action would have been taken regardless of the host.

    Well, if you say that.

    You can accept that or not, if not I doubt anything else I will have to say will convince you otherwise.

    I doesn't really matter if i accept it. If i believe it is another question.

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  • TheXOTheXO Member

    @AnthonySmith, i still don't know why my account got wiped out for no reason after arguing with clouvider, beside that, all of my content was deleted / de indexed

  • defaultdefault Member

    @AnthonySmith said:
    sometimes a decision hits a nerve

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  • corbpiecorbpie Member

    How much cash did they give for it to be removed?

    grape

  • netomxnetomx Member, Moderator

    @corbpie said:
    How much cash did they give for it to be removed?

    I got $2 USD, man. I am rich.

  • AuroraZAuroraZ Member

    @netomx said:

    @corbpie said:
    How much cash did they give for it to be removed?

    I got $2 USD, man. I am rich.

    Is that enough to get Taco Hosting online?

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  • netomxnetomx Member, Moderator

    AuroraZ said: Taco Hosting

    at least for a day

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  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Provider
    edited July 9

    @jsg said:

    @TheXO said:
    I got my previous, full, active account deleted and wiped out when i argued with clouvider. And i ain't even angry. yay me.

    For the sake of fairness: Tagging @Clouvider

    Thanks !

    More like tagging whoever admin allegedly banned him - we don’t have any such influence here. :-)

    Clouvider Leading UK Cloud Hosting solution provider || UK Dedicated Servers Sale || Tasty KVM Slices || Latest LET Offer

    Web hosting in Cloud | SSD & SAS True Cloud VPS on OnApp | Private Cloud | Dedicated Servers | Colocation | Managed Services

  • teamaccteamacc Member

    @TheXO said:
    @AnthonySmith, i still don't know why my account got wiped out for no reason after arguing with clouvider, beside that, all of my content was deleted / de indexed

    We have no clue either. So far we've put it on "vanilla derping". Given that we lack proper changelogs of what happens on here, we can't investigate any further.

    Also, it seems to have been only you, no idea why.

    Yo mama so fat each of her butt-cheeks has its own /8.
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  • KrisKris Member
    edited July 9

    Found this while freeing up memory, yay Chrome tab hoarding.

    Only part of his thread I could find cached: http://archive.is/Iut3S

    They advertise and sell a "bring your own ASN/IP" package for an outrageous $20/month + $50 setup, or a slightly less outrageous $16.67/month if you pre-pay annually ($200 total)
    Then, when you order VPS instances and the BGP service, they terminate all VPS instances and reply to your ticket with "Do you want $1000/month CDN services or cancel & refund?"
    Total bait & switch SCAM. Avoid at all costs. Spend your time and money elsewhere.

    For any who were interested. This is the pre-sale ticket of the guy who got bait & switched by Incero, and subsequently thread hidden:

    Hello,

    I am interested in extending AS57335 anycast with your Seattle, Dallas, and New York locations. I would like to know if you support custom ISO images, what your current BGP communities policy is, and if any waiving or discounting of $30/m BGP service charge is

    possible with bi-annual/annual pre-payment.

    Thank you.

    Response:

    Hello,

    >

    We offer Blackhole Community and can load any custom ISO. Pricing is detailed on our website.

    Taylor
    SpeedyKVM Support

    Here is SpeedyKVM's current BGP offering: https://speedykvm.com/billing/cart.php?gid=6/

    I didn't get a screenshot, but it was seen that between then and now, they said 'If you'd like to use our services for CDN, it will be $1000, or we can refund you'

    From being in Anycast and VPS and networking for a few years back, here's how I'm guessing it went down.

    Taylor didn't know that the BGP offering monthly is for people who own IPs and want to avoid paying extra for IPs on VMs. Not Anycast. At the same time, Incero doesn't explain that BGP and IP announcement isn't available for Anycast... they just leave out the fact that you cannot seemingly use BGP services for Anycast, to distribute traffic evenly across your AS. The OP made it clear in the first ticket and contact he had his own AS, and was expanding an Anycast footprint.

    From then until order and seemingly until setup management had no look at tickets or gave the employee a nudge on Slack to let him know 'we don't do Anycast on bog standard VMs' - This is management's fault, and lack of knowledge on the support operator, NOT the OP.

    So without having the exact details, I'm guessing over the last few weeks he purchased 3 VMs in the 3 locations they offer, and probably setup bird, quagga, etc. and got ready to peer.

    When it came time to send the LOA and he requested peering IPs on their side, I'm sure it clicked in managements head... 'oh he wants to do Anycast'. 3 locations? He's going to probably setup a CDN.

    I checked OP's ASN and there's no http hosts setup, so I can't find any HTTP based CDN. So if he is doing CDN services, that's I guess in the 'missing tickets'

    Anyway, he ended up getting a reply after they requested $1000 to provide what he paid for, or would be given a refund as they didn't want to provide the service.

    I personally setup my own ASN while learning networking and wanted to expand my path as much as possible while learning prepends and communities. Things sat idle. I had a lot great providers from LeapSwitch to AnyNode who assisted when it came to getting BGP and peering setup.

    Incero just has a holier than thou attitude, and they probably feel pretty entitled right now to 'pick and choose' customers with our current sad state of affairs in the country.

    If you're "Texas folk" you'll probably get along with them fine. God forbid creepy ass Gordon finds your username on LET when you sign up for a deal or worse, you're from another country... they don't want your business. YMMV.

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    @TheXO said:
    @AnthonySmith, i still don't know why my account got wiped out for no reason after arguing with clouvider, beside that, all of my content was deleted / de indexed

    Oh great add more fuel to a fire for no reason, look, I have banned many people I make no secret of it, I have seen many people argue with clouvider, they still have accounts, I really don't understand why everyone thinks there is some big conspiracy all the time, if you got to spend a day in the admin role you would be amused by the lack of actual power and influence we actually have in reality.

  • netomxnetomx Member, Moderator

    We can unhide the thread, but I don't think it can add more of what we know

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  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    @netomx said:
    We can unhide the thread, but I don't think it can add more of what we know

    Unhide it and close it, probably the fair middle ground.

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  • KrisKris Member

    It would be cool to unhide the thread, I never expected opened if it was closed, originally just came to understand the logic behind deleting it. I saw my replies disappear and wondered what happened.

    I never knew he had a fit and Anthony gave him a put up or shut up ultimatum, would have given some context and avoided this thread.

    Incase it wasn't un-hidden, I just wanted to fill people in on things incase they decided they wanted to roll their own Anycast on Incero's network. I would want a heads up personally, as I ran Anycast tests for a while when I was helping to build one of the top 10 networks by AS peering.

  • jsgjsg Member

    What I learned here is that Incero should be generally und unconditionally AVOIDED. The same goes for their other fronts and friends. Which brings me to the (OK, probably somewhat hosting world newbie but anyway) question:

    Which companies other than SpeedyKVM are Incero fronts, relatives and "close friends"?

  • mkshmksh Member

    @AnthonySmith said:
    I really don't understand why everyone thinks there is some big conspiracy all the time

    Well, when you have knowledgeable LET members using mods to anonymously add information to discussions that turns out to be misleading at best it doesn't make all that much of a transparent impression. Don't get me wrong, i am not blaming @willie. I had taken away the same thing from prior discussions and just blindly repeated it without fact checking it first. He at least made it clear where he got the information and displayed skepticism.

    Also there is no need for any conspiracy. Yeah, i don't think every host would get the same treatment but it might very well be for purely practical reasons.

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  • TheXOTheXO Member

    @AnthonySmith, not adding more fuel to it, and i never got banned, i was told I'm allowed to create my same account name 3 days after it was totally deleted where all admins, mods said it was just gone, by itself with no logs indicating what had happened, do accounts here just disappear by themselves? Just after casual years of using, do they just snap and delete themselves? I was never into conspiracy, but i never got an understandable reason for what have happened. I'm not arguing or anything, and i guess it might be your right to deny any user from using the site but at least be open out about it.

  • mkshmksh Member

    @AnthonySmith said:
    Ok then.

    Yeah, yeah... I am annoying. Point taken.

  • teamaccteamacc Member

    @TheXO said:
    @AnthonySmith, not adding more fuel to it, and i never got banned, i was told I'm allowed to create my same account name 3 days after it was totally deleted where all admins, mods said it was just gone, by itself with no logs indicating what had happened, do accounts here just disappear by themselves? Just after casual years of using, do they just snap and delete themselves? I was never into conspiracy, but i never got an understandable reason for what have happened. I'm not arguing or anything, and i guess it might be your right to deny any user from using the site but at least be open out about it.

    That's because we never found a reason for your account suddenly being gone...

    We don't want you gone, we just don't know what happened.

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  • deankdeank Member

    @mksh said:
    Yeah, yeah... I am annoying. Point taken.

    Take consolation that I am probably more annoying to everybody else.

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