Ceph on Virtualizor
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Ceph on Virtualizor

edited May 12 in General

Reading their docs, they describe how to install it but not really how it's used from a customer perspective.

Can anyone give me an idea of a typical use case on Virtualizor? I don't currently use Virtualizor.

Does it give me cloud storage accessible from multiple VPS's so they can do snapshots etc.? If so, can that be done from the WHMCS control panel. I'm not that familiar with Ceph either.

Also, what are people using for KVM image format in general. For VPS and Ceph. Raw or Qcow2? I have used raw but haven't used qcow on anything before. My guess is that SSD's make the performance hit of qcow less of an issue

I have been kind of waiting to see what is happening with virtualization technologies before upgrading from OpenVZ. I don't like the fact OVZ7 uses a custom OS and LXC has it's own drawbacks. So I think I am going to move everything to KVM.

Comments

  • FHRFHR Member, Provider

    As a customer, you will not have access to the underlying Ceph infrastructure. Ask your provider what features they offer and how to use them. Some providers do snapshots, some don't.

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  • if you cantact virtualizor team via ticket or on skype they provide support and install virtualizor for you and also configure.
    here is guide to install virtualizor kvm.
    http://www.virtualizor.com/wiki/Install_KVM

  • edited May 12

    LosPollosHermanos said: Quote

    @FHR said:
    As a customer, you will not have access to the underlying Ceph infrastructure. Ask your provider what features they offer and how to use them. Some providers do snapshots, some don't.

    I am the provider.

  • edited May 12

    @mhosting_in said:
    if you cantact virtualizor team via ticket or on skype they provide support and install virtualizor for you and also configure.
    here is guide to install virtualizor kvm.
    http://www.virtualizor.com/wiki/Install_KVM

    I don't need install advice. They documented that. I just want to know what it is used for from a point and click customer perpective.

  • scaveneyscaveney Member, Provider

    ಠ_ಠ

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  • FHRFHR Member, Provider

    If you are not familiar with Ceph, you should not use it. It can break in thousands ways.
    Play with it in a dev environment

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  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @FHR said:
    If you are not familiar with Ceph, you should not use it. It can break in thousands ways.
    Play with it in a dev environment

    Even if you are familiar with it, it'll break a million ways.

    It's called job security for the "experts".

    Francisco

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  • BharatBBharatB Member, Provider

    Ceph is nothing but an advanced level of block & file storage system consider it something like having your own S3 at a very scalable and cheaper cost ( since you'll decide when to scale ) anything from block storage, object storage, distributed storage ( main purpose ) can be achieved.

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  • edited May 12

    I'm still hoping that someone can answer the question of how it's used in Virtualizor, from a customer perspective.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    LosPollosHermanos said: I'm still hoping that someone can answer the question of how it's used in Virtualizor, from a customer perspective.

    Sure, from a customer perspective it is transparent.

  • edited May 12

    @AnthonySmith said:

    LosPollosHermanos said: I'm still hoping that someone can answer the question of how it's used in Virtualizor, from a customer perspective.

    Sure, from a customer perspective it is transparent.

    Transparent how? What does it actually do for them? Does it give them the ability to do snapshots? Like what you get with Digital Ocean?

  • @LosPollosHermanos

    Everything needs to be implemented. Virtualizor seems to have the snapshot/backup feature built in though.

    wget https://s.flamz.pw/dl/bench.sh && bash bench.sh

    curl https://s.flamz.pw/analytics/bench/stats.php

  • wavecomaswavecomas Member, Provider

    why ceph if you are not familier with it ? in my knowledge it can be really difficult to handle.. I could use ceph with kvm and cloudstack... there is high avaylabilty. But with just virtualizor...

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  • Maybe virtualizor has some other way they are doing the snapshot feature. Saw their instructions for setting up Ceph and I just assumed that is what they are using with the snapshot feature.

  • dfroedfroe Member, Provider

    Well, of course it is only a singular case, but ZXHost's past has told us LET folks, that even if you mostly know what you are doing, CEPH is capable to ruin your whole business...

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  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider
    edited May 12

    @dfroe said:
    Well, of course it is only a singular case, but ZXHost's past has told us LET folks, that even if you mostly know what you are doing, CEPH is capable to ruin your whole business...

    There's plenty of cases of CEPH going mental.

    DO had a issue in France the other month which caused it to be offline for 2 days. OVH had months+ of performance issues, outages, etc, and even to this day it supposedly has a lot of problems. ZXHost claims they had an issue where they couldn't boot things and it ended up them folding up shop, or close to it.

    There's lots of cases on google of other groups have issues, it's not a easy beast to tame.

    That's why I won't touch it.

    Francisco

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  • ShazanShazan Provider

    @LosPollosHermanos said:
    Transparent how? What does it actually do for them? Does it give them the ability to do snapshots? Like what you get with Digital Ocean?

    CEPH just stores the vps data on it and can do snapshots. But you don't need CEPH to let your customer make snapshots, you can use LVM too. The difference is that CEPH is distributed.

    In other words, nothing changes for the customer if you use CEPH or other storage for the vps.

    So, just go with LVM if you thought of CEPH just to make snapshots, unless you need a distributed and complicated storage.

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  • drserverdrserver Member, Host Rep

    LosPollosHermanos said: I'm still hoping that someone can answer the question of how it's used in Virtualizor, from a customer perspective.

    There is no difference, your customer does not see your storage backend

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  • @drserver said:

    LosPollosHermanos said: I'm still hoping that someone can answer the question of how it's used in Virtualizor, from a customer perspective.

    There is no difference, your customer does not see your storage backend

    I want offsite storage. Doesn't have to be distributed. I don't want snapshots on the same hardware as the VPS itself. Preferably a different datacenter as well, or both.

  • drserverdrserver Member, Host Rep

    LosPollosHermanos said: I want offsite storage. Doesn't have to be distributed. I don't want snapshots on the same hardware as the VPS itself. Preferably a different datacenter as well, or both.

    >

    So where is the problem

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  • BharatBBharatB Member, Provider

    Doesn't justify use for CEPH really, you could write a small script to push your snapshots to S3

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  • @drserver said:

    LosPollosHermanos said: I want offsite storage. Doesn't have to be distributed. I don't want snapshots on the same hardware as the VPS itself. Preferably a different datacenter as well, or both.

    >

    So where is the problem

    No problem. Just curious how people are doing it. I thought maybe Ceph but I guess not. There is also GlusterFS which looks interesting if that can be incorporated into Virtualizor GUI somehow.

  • drserverdrserver Member, Host Rep

    For offsite snapshots you don't need Gluster or Ceph, you could just use remote FTP server

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  • FHRFHR Member, Provider

    @LosPollosHermanos said:

    No problem. Just curious how people are doing it. I thought maybe Ceph but I guess not. There is also GlusterFS which looks interesting if that can be incorporated into Virtualizor GUI somehow.

    Performance of Gluster can vary quite a bit. It can work fine if all server are in one rack/datacenter, but never use it over internet.

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  • hostfavhostfav Member, Provider
    edited May 14

    @LosPollosHermanos We don't have experience CEPH with Virtualizor. But we have been using CEPH in one of our Datacenters for our Productions servers since 2015.

    We are not using separate CEPH cluster. We are using 3 nodes Proxmox Cluster with CEPH.

    Both KVM and LXC VPS are running fine.

    We have moved most of servers from VMware and SAN VNX5300 to Proxmox Cluster

    Our CEPH configuration:

    • 3 Nodes Proxmox v4x Cluster

    • Each nodes has 4 x 1 Gbps NIC for VMs and Dual 10Gbps for CEPH. 10G NIC are configured as Bond and Mode Broadcast. Because we are not using any 10G switch. We tried cheap switches and did not get good performance.

    • Each node has 3 different types of drives. SSD, SAS and SATA

    • We have 3 different CEPH Crush Maps configured for Performance (SAS), Capacity (72k SATA) and SSD Storage.

    • Each node has 2 Journal Disks, one for Performance Storage and one for Capacity Capacity. SSD are not using Journal Disk.

    • Our Pools are configured with 2 replica for redundancy.

    Last month one of our nodes Capacity Storage's Journal disk failed and we were able to recover.

    Planning to move our NY customers' Proxmox 5 nodes cluster to CEPH this month.

    We are using RAW storage for all KVMs.

    CEPH helps us to Live VM Migration and Storage Migration, nodes maintenance etc.

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  • edited May 14

    @drserver said:
    For offsite snapshots you don't need Gluster or Ceph, you could just use remote FTP server

    Only if it's incorporated into the GUI with a "snapshot" button the customer can use on their own for creating and restoring snapshots. That is the goal. See what Digital Ocean does for an example of how it should be done.

  • edited May 14

    @FHR said:

    @LosPollosHermanos said:

    No problem. Just curious how people are doing it. I thought maybe Ceph but I guess not. There is also GlusterFS which looks interesting if that can be incorporated into Virtualizor GUI somehow.

    Performance of Gluster can vary quite a bit. It can work fine if all server are in one rack/datacenter, but never use it over internet.

    Performance over WAN/internet connections is what I am most curious about. That is how I probably want to use it. They have an asyncronous mode designed specifically for that.

  • emptyPDemptyPD Member

    since ZXHost issue, i panic when i read the word "ceph".

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Provider

    @emptyPD said:
    since ZXHost issue, i panic when i read the word "ceph".

    Not a rare opinion it seems :P

    Francisco

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  • virtualizorvirtualizor Member
    edited June 2

    Hi,

    Virtualizor will support ceph from 2.9.6 onwards. It will be a storage option to cretae Vms.
    We have added this option as some of our partners wanted this storage supported.
    Change log for 2.9.6 launched yesterday :
    http://www.virtualizor.com/blog/?p=1798

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  • Hasn't the upgrade been pushed yet? I can't see the upgrade push coming in backstage.

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  • @SuperValueHost said:
    Hasn't the upgrade been pushed yet? I can't see the upgrade push coming in backstage.

    It's in the release stage. We will make it stable in 2-3 weeks. But you can use it by changing the update preference in your master settings to release.

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  • sinsin Member

    Francisco said: OVH had months+ of performance issues, outages, etc, and even to this day it supposedly has a lot of problems

    Can confirm...I won't touch an OVH product with ceph after having nothing but issues.

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