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Opinions on this 'TOS'
randvegeta
Member, Host Rep
Wrote this to give people more realistic expectations for an ultra cheap VPS. This is for our US$6.50 /year Hong Kong KVM VPS with 256MB RAM and 10GB HDD WITH direct routes to China. A country where 1 square meter of space cost over US$20,000 to buy, and 1Mbit of CN2 bandwidth cost $150 /month.
Most buyers are reasonable, but there are still a small minority (<10%) that have crazy unrealistic expectations.
My objective is to DOWNPLAY expectations. Does this achieve that? opinions?
See Below:
About NAT VPS
Ultra affordable VPS are intended for personal and casual use only. Our NAT based VPS offers no refunds, no guarantees, and no backups! We use mostly commodity grade hardware with no redundancy whatsoever. A hard drive failure will result in a loss of all data, so it is the responsibility of the user to ensure they have backups of all their own data. In the event of hardware failure, a new VPS would be created in place of the old one.
What do you mean by no SLA/Guarantees?
This means we provide no assurances for uptime or availability. We will do our best, within reason, to provide maximal uptime, and to provide a replacement server as quickly as possible in the event of a hardware fault. However, we would not accept any liability, financial or otherwise for any downtime of any duration. If you consider this term to be unreasonable, or unacceptable, then this service is probably not for you!
What is a NAT VPS?
NAT stands for Network Address Translation. What this really means is, you do not get a public IPv4 address with your VPS. Instead, your VPS will have a shared IPv4 address and 21 ports for which you can use on this VPS. If you need a dedicated IPv4 address, this is NOT for you! We do however include a native /64 IPv6 subnet.
What do you mean no refunds?
No refunds means no refunds. Under no circumstances do we consider offering a refund. We realize this to be an 'unreasonable' policy, but this is also reflected in the extremely low price. The mere handling of a refund would ultimately cost more to process than value of the service itself. Therefore, no refunds means no refunds. As with no SLA/Guarantee, if you consider this to be unacceptable, please do not order the service.
Is this for me?
Do you need guarantees and assurances that your VPS will be running 100% of the time? Do you need the performance to be blazing fast (or any minimum level of performance)? Do you want to get your money back if your server is down for a long periods of time? Do you need help running and using your VPS? Do you consider a coffee at Starbucks to be too expensive? Do you find it difficult to communicate in English? Do you typically ignore reading terms of service information? Do you think a US$2 steak should taste as good as a US$100 steak?
If you answer yes to any of these, this service is NOT for you. Under no circumstances will you be offered a refund.
So who should buy this service?
Anyone looking for an ultra cheap VPS who knows what they are doing, doesn't need support, and willing to accept the risk that there may be no VPS services provided at all. Someone who has read this TOS, and despite being completely unreasonable, considers the terms acceptable given the incredibly low price. Few such people exists, but only these kinds of people should really be considering this service. Good luck, and godspeed!
Comments
I believe this is more than what is required, and more than enough. However, I believe joining a community forum like LES will be best for newbie who need community support. Although I believe most of them will use this as a VPN due to direct China route, but some of them still use it for their pet project or as a learning tool) Besides that, you really need to have a clear cut on no abuse allowed (such as open proxy, mining etc), VirMach is very good in their policy: https://virmach.com/terms-conditions/
I think you're on track. But it's too long. A lot of the content is not really needed. It's good, but will someone who "doesn't get it" be the kind of person who will read all of this?
Will you force folks to read that before they buy, and make it available in simplified and traditional Chinese?
On the order page, I have the following in bold caps!
NO REFUNDS!!!
NO SLA/GUARANTEES!!!
NO BACKUPS!!!
And then there is a link to this page for anyone who is unclear as to what that really means.
So I don't think I will force it unless it doesn't reduce the number of ridiculous disputes.
I wasn't planning to. Honestly I have no idea why people who don't understand the language sign up to service they cannot read the description of. But if I did translate it, it would only need to be in simplified. I haven't had a single HKer not be happy with this.
Interestingly, the most common complaints we get are from buyers who don't know what NAT is and get upset when they don't get a public IPv4 address.
We also got a complaint about speed issues. They opened a dispute with paypal and in it admitted it was relatively fast for all servers in the bench.sh script, and that it was only slow on their own broadband. They contend that the service should provide a minimum (guaranteed) speed of at least 10Mbit to all locations at all times (including China!) and that it's not fair to use the bench.sh script as a 'benchmark' because the test servers are on 'professional' networks. I have no idea how to deal with such people...
You know I think it probably should be forced....
Just from the sheer number of tickets we see replayed here where one party is clearly using Google translate, it’s pretty evident that folks are quite happy to buy a service offered in a language that they cannot communicate in adequately.
You’re offering a service that is potentially of huge interest to folks in China, especially given the tiny price point. Given the cultural differences between much of the West and China, you could easily end up mired in chargebacks. Making some positive adjustments especially for the Chinese market could a) protect you to a degree and b) end up extremely profitable.
Yep, like technically forced. Otherwise the only people reading it probably would be the same group you won't have many problems with to begin with.
One specific suggestion - replace:
with:
And in general, eliminate as much as you can - see how it reads with only the most essential points.
@randvegeta: I agree with @Nekki that if you can also offer the text in Simplified Chinese for the local market, all the better. If I recall well, you are Chinese yourself, so you (should?) have an advantage in this respect.
As for your ToS, well, I think that it would be better to aim for a more neutral tone (your current text suggests that you're frustrated), plus I personally find the part "Is this for me?" somewhat condescending, but this may be cultural. To me, this part sounds like you're addressing yourself to those who are mentally challenged. (Just my two cents.)
It wouldn't matter what you wrote, it doesn't change the fact that Chinese buyers will expect it to do more than what you promise.
Chinese customers are amazing to have, they have a lot of money to spend (as a country) and if you set the correct expectation you will both be happy.
The problem is when you offer things for a very low price, suddenly the Chinese youth have access to it, and we're dealing with a new generation of kids who want it NOW, they want it FAST and they expect it to be CHEAP. This is the country that makes the cheapest things in the world.
I hope what I said doesn't get taken out of context
EDIT: Also, look into Chinese Consumer Protection Law - it's a relatively new thing that could cause issues when refusing refunds. It's similar to Australian Consumer Law and my favourite, Singapore's Lemon Law.
Hong Kong Chinese and UK educated. Unable to read /write in simplified Chinese :-). But technically yes, it would not be an issue to find someone to perform the translation. I am just reluctant to do anything in Chinese as I do not have the ability to service Chinese speakers directly. Though I suppose I could put in the TOS that support is NOT provided in Chinese.
This is a fair point, but I find adopting a very neutral tone makes it difficult to convey certain points. At least for me! I am by no means a writer. I'm not sure how to make these points clear without being blunt about it. In fact, I am generally using a language that portrays the service to be of poor quality as to give users a lower expectation.
But the suggestion from @uptime, is pretty good. I'll re-word this as best I can.
The majority of our China clients are businesses/companies, who have a different set of requirements. And they are indeed a pleasure to have!
This may be true. I still find a good majority to be very reasonable and have realistic expectations. However, as anyone knows, even 5% of clients being problematic can cause huge problems, especially on minimal margin services.
Wit in writing is like strong seasoning - perhaps best added sparingly after the main ingredients have been prepared.
Anyway, rewrite it as much as you can stand to, then let it rest before reading it again. Also might help to read it out loud (to yourself, and to someone else).
I think it's already pretty good, but that's how you'll be able to make it better. Have fun!
But I guess that there's no support anyway on this plan, right? ;-)
Yeah, this may be cultural: lower expectations by downplaying the service.
Ahh yes, Chinese business customers are the best, period. They know what they want, and they don't mind letting you know upfront exactly what issues, if any, they have. Not to generalize but it's overwhelmingly true!
Absolutely, but like you say that 5% can be a problem if you're not careful, but I'd say you're on the right track with wanting to simplify/clarify your ToS. You don't want to spend 95% of your time on 5% of your customers :P
But then again, 5% of your revenue to refund, even on a low-margin product might be something to factor in if things go pear-shaped. Easier to refund and send on their way than to deal with some customers.
I am not sure if this idea is viable, just sell it as a reseller product, then let resellers deal with them. If there are too much abuse from the reseller account, then ban the whole reseller account. Sounds great?
For example, pool of 2GB RAM, 80GB HDD, 1.5TB Bandwidth, 168 NAT ports, with maximum 8 VPS allowed
You should probably take out the "Is this for me?" paragraph.
I mean, it's funny to read but then again, I personally find starbucks coffee way too expensive for what you get, but that has nothing to do with my expectations towards a super cheap VPS service. In the end you may chase potential customers away with this paragraph....
But honestly if you answer yes to any a of those questions, I genuinely think it's probably not for you. The amount being charged is less than a typical coffee and pastry at SB and I genuinely think if that's too expensive for you, then you then your expectations are too high.
Well, as long as it is cheap. I don't speak German, but I buy netcup.
See, that's where the misunderstanding begins.
I said I find a starbucks coffee too expensive for what it offers, not too expensive in general.
You do not want to imply that you want only customers who don't care if something is worth the price, right?
That's why I meant maybe this paragraph is a bit too much.
@randvegeta, you dodged all my comments/replies to you, including what I asked during Cyber Monday, why so? Maybe my comments are not that constructive but whatever
Well you see I would have to disagree there. Now am I not saying a cup of coffee at star bucks is worth US$5? God no! Better cups of coffee are available for far less. The point is if you don't go to Starbucks simply because you think it's too expensive, then the service being offered really IS NOT FOR YOU.
The logic being, when you buy a coffee at starbucks, assuming you're staying in, you're not just getting a cup of coffee. You get a place to sit, and while you drink your overpriced cup of coffee, you get a nice place to sit, read, work or whatever. So you're not really buying a cup of coffee, you're paying for space. You're renting the sofa, getting a socket to plug in your laptop etc.
In HK, where rent is among the highest in the world, it is by far, a lot cheaper to sit in a Starbucks all day long, drinking that swill they call coffee, using their wifi and electricity, than it is to rent your own office space. And this is why Starbucks, no matter how crap and overpriced the coffee may be, is actually a bargain.
Didn't read it.
Wrote this to give you a preview of your customer interactions after enacting this.
Way to shit on his kittens with actual logic.
LOL!
So how does 1 drill in this information to people before they purchase? Make them answer a quiz before allowing them to click on the buy now button?
Did I? I'm sorry, that was not intentional. I don't think. What were your comments/replies/suggestions?
If it's to do this via a re-seller, I'm not keen on that either.
Each order must be approved by video chat, during which their agreement with these terms will be recorded. They must briefly undress during the chat so that the video can be used against them if they ask for a refund.
One of these days I'm going to start a new hosting brand and have absolutely ridiculous terms and conditions in them. This will be one of them. Will see how many people still sign up.
captcha where they need to enter word X on row Y in the TOS.
@AnthonySmith has plenty of experience with this from hosting LowEndSpirit servers. To rent one of those you have to check 5 separate boxes on the order form indicating that you understand each point. It doesn't help.