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Please explicitly tell NETCUP you want cancel it NOW , and ask for confirmation

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  • WSSWSS Member

    @psb777 said:

    bsdguy said: My guess: They do that not to get your 60 or whatever $. They do it to send a message.

    >

    So it makes sense for netcup to send you debt collectors. Not for your 60$ but to get a reputation over there in china. Something like "netcup has nice services and is a good provider but if you try to fuck them they'll hit back".

    I don't really understand your fixation on the nationality of OP. Would it make any differences (for either OP or netcup) if OP were, say, a Japanese? It seems to me that you are trying to send a message here, but keep in mind that, "betcha", most Chinese won't get it; in rare cases they do, they won't give a damn.

    Although it may seem overtly racial, it's just a fact of this business that Chinese cause more headaches by chargebacks, support issues, and outright fraud to hosting providers who don't screen very carefully. The reason he's pointing this out is that many providers wouldn't even take OP's service- but again, due to misunderstanding/laziness, OP brought this upon himself and now just wants to let it ride to see how it turns out.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Nationality of OP makes understanding cases easier, especially if he is a Chinese.

  • @deank said: he is a Chinese.

    I find this grammatically intolerable!

  • @psb777 said:

    bsdguy said: My guess: They do that not to get your 60 or whatever $. They do it to send a message.

    >

    So it makes sense for netcup to send you debt collectors. Not for your 60$ but to get a reputation over there in china. Something like "netcup has nice services and is a good provider but if you try to fuck them they'll hit back".

    I don't really understand your fixation on the nationality of OP. Would it make any differences (for either OP or netcup) if OP were, say, a Japanese? It seems to me that you are trying to send a message here, but keep in mind that, "betcha", most Chinese won't get it; in rare cases they do, they won't give a damn.

    Well, we happen to talk about a case involving a chinese person. I'd say the same if it was about japanese or people from chile, but it just so happens that - for whatever reasons - the chinese are high up in the "making lots of trouble in hosting" ranking.

    And, No, I'm not trying to send a message. I'm not a provider or otherwise in hosting. I'm trying to understand and to explain or at least guess why netcup acted the way they did.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    @needavps said:
    nd his gamically intolble!

    Gibberish !

  • WSSWSS Member

    Right now, Netcup is offering .de domains for #0.11/mo.

  • rm_rm_ IPv6 Advocate, Veteran

    WSS said: Right now, Netcup is offering .de domains for #0.11/mo.

    What's the # currency, is it the jail bars which you will see for violating some point of a contract with them?

  • @bsdguy

    their debt collector tries to sue me, I am waiting for them. I have to say, Netcup really build up some reputation, whatever it is, it is the outcome of their performance.They stick to what they think that is right, they do what they think that is legal. I think they also would do best on their server.however,in the way they think they are doing it properly.They do it in their own way but ignore everything else in the outside of Europe, or even in German.

    Is there any other provider would mix use CANCEL and REVOKE (I don't think they make the word, but it not the common way in the hosting world in my mind) , and never mentioned a revoking things but keep using the word CANCEL all the way in the emails they send you, and show only CANCEL button on their panel where most of the other providers put it there means to REVOKING the server (in the netcup words). But after you click it as you do with everyone else in the world , you surprisingly found that it only cancel the renewal. And after you stats it clearly you want an immediate cancel, they just keep their own pace to ask you for a submit , and wait for the whole 14 or 30 days but never bother to send another letter to you to make sure what is happening to the customer.

    It's just too different with most of the other providers doing. Even with German provider, like Hetzner, there are no such revoking tricks, but only one cancel button, they also don't ask for a submit after you clearly send a mail stating you want to quit, they do it better, they just refund you if it applies. That is really clear and simple.

    It's really a bad performance that you ask others to follow your rules which is really not common in the world where you would like to survive.

    Why with most of the other providers, like every provider using whmcs , or their own control panel Hetzner, or big names evernote. you just click the cancel button, you need not to send some strictly required form with handwriting. No one ask this before, and I can 100% sure they never mentioned before you buy.

    I don't think this is the matter between Chinese and the rest of the world. I think it's the difference between Netcup and the rest of hosting world. They just keep doing it in their own way. When you mail to their support , they just simply ignore the CANCEL things but keep telling you that you miss the 14 days period ,when you tell them you did ask for a immediately cancel , they say you don't reply with a form . I think if I had sent the form , they definitely would tell me that my form is not what they required. they just wait for the whole period and never send another letter to make sure how things going on, why the customer keep silence . They keep sending automation billing and refuse to cancel the service because you did no follow what they ask you to do. And send some random debt collector whom the work load is so heavy that would mistake teamview and Netcup.

    All the two days experience is a new level to me. I have never use so much English for years.

    I think most of your words about Chinese are reasonable. But I just share my experience here, I tried to be polite all the way because I always think it's my fault to be careless. But the Netcup way is just really tricky (I dont know if I use the word with proper means) , it acts far different from the other providers. That make me confusing.

    Thanked by 2uptime MikePT
  • WSSWSS Member

    @rm_ said:

    WSS said: Right now, Netcup is offering .de domains for #0.11/mo.

    What's the # currency, is it the jail bars which you will see for violating some point of a contract with them?

    Are you seriously considering not paying a German? That's not a great plan.

    Thanked by 1Aidan
  • hzrhzr Member

    cece said: It's just too different with most of the other providers doing. Even with German provider, like Hetzner, there are no such revoking tricks, but only one cancel button, they also don't ask for a submit after you clearly send a mail stating you want to quit, they do it better, they just refund you if it applies. That is really clear and simple.

    Hetzner has a cancel order vs cancel server button for whatever bizarre German legal purpose

    WSS said: Are you seriously considering not paying a German? That's not a great plan.

    Greece did it.

    Thanked by 3WSS ehab MikePT
  • ricardoricardo Member
    edited January 2018

    bsdguy said: OK. They send some lawyer/company after you for their money, you complain and are angry about. Think a moment. Why would they do that? It'll cost them more in the end than they'll get from you. So why would they do that?

    Usually with these debt recovery companies, they aren't charging the provider a penny. You get one chance to pony up the cash, and afterwards start adding on their own 'fees' if you don't take them up on their initial offer. My 0.02, haven't bothered reading every post here.

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • @ricardo said:

    bsdguy said: OK. They send some lawyer/company after you for their money, you complain and are angry about. Think a moment. Why would they do that? It'll cost them more in the end than they'll get from you. So why would they do that?

    Usually with these debt recovery companies, they aren't charging the provider a penny. You get one chance to pony up the cash, and afterwards start adding on their own 'fees' if you don't take them up on their initial offer. My 0.02, haven't bothered reading every post here.

    This is exactly my understanding. I know a guy who goes after people who try and avoid paying the smaller invoices thinking it’s not economical to enforce them; WRONG.

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • @bsdguy

    I think this thread will keep some of the troubling customer especially chinese from netcup. And it may be good to both sides.

  • @Nekki
    Haha, there is also words like this in China.
    May I type it here.
    犯我国威者, 虽远必诛。

  • mfsmfs Banned, Member
    edited January 2018

    cece said: May I type it here.

    "Who made my country, although far will punish."?

    cece said: Even with German provider, like Hetzner, there are no such revoking tricks, but only one cancel button,

    Well, actually it's something Hetzner had to face, arguably in a more straightforward way for you; see

    Hetzner_OL said: Keep in mind that on our admin interface Robot, you need to select "Cancel order" not "Cancel server" to cancel within the first 14 days. There is a linguistic and legal distinction in German that does not translate well into English.

    .

    WSS said: .de domains for #0.11/mo.

    0,11€/mo, Mindestvertragslaufzeit und abrechnungsperiode: 12 Monate (...)

    this is really one of those marketing inanities of them

    WSS said: that Chinese cause more headaches by chargebacks, support issues, and outright fraud to hosting providers who don't screen very carefully. The reason he's pointing this out is that many providers wouldn't even take OP's service- but again, due to misunderstanding/laziness, OP brought this upon himself and now just wants to let it ride to see how it turns out.

    Honestly I believe that OP has tried to understand what happened well beyond the stereotypical Chinese; he double checked what he did and he didn't even attempt a chargeback. Language barrier and business practices he's accustomed to did the rest. Sure, there's still the suggestion to fake IDs in OP..

    He missed to pre-emptively investigate details, but hey he tried to understand the issue and even revoked in doubt his position. That's more than I initially expected to be honest

    Thanked by 2uptime WSS
  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Nope, your thread will give Netcup more customers. Bad PR = more sales nowadays.

    Thanked by 1cece
  • bsdguybsdguy Member
    edited January 2018

    @Nekki said:

    @ricardo said:

    bsdguy said: OK. They send some lawyer/company after you for their money, you complain and are angry about. Think a moment. Why would they do that? It'll cost them more in the end than they'll get from you. So why would they do that?

    Usually with these debt recovery companies, they aren't charging the provider a penny. You get one chance to pony up the cash, and afterwards start adding on their own 'fees' if you don't take them up on their initial offer. My 0.02, haven't bothered reading every post here.

    This is exactly my understanding. I know a guy who goes after people who try and avoid paying the smaller invoices thinking it’s not economical to enforce them; WRONG.

    Depends. There are different models. One, for instance, is that the "collectors" actually buy the claims. So, say netcup is owed 60$, the collector company might buy those debts for something in the range of 20$ - 40$ (largely depending on the debt quality).

    Another model is to have the debt collectors work as a service for you. There you loose less but carry the full risk (incl. the collectors doing a good job or not). Obviously there are different variants, e.g. collectors earning more or less by add on fees or from the creditor.

    In virtually all cases there is a cost for netcup in one or the other form. Moreover one, of course, has to see the real cost related to the product; as netcup doesn't sell physical products those costs are quite low and mostly on the administration side.

    60$ is on the more solid side but many typical debts in the hosting business (a couple of bucks, often less than 20$) indeed is not worth to follow up on, considering the administrative burden and cost - it might, however, well be worth to play that more or less null sum game to send a message (as in "I prefer to loose 5$ a hundred times and such not having trouble thousands of times with assholes who are kept back by my "bad reputation" for hunting them down").

  • @deank
    This makes me feel much better now

  • WSSWSS Member

    @mfs said:
    Honestly I believe that OP has tried to understand what happened well beyond the stereotypical Chinese; he double checked what he did and he didn't even attempt a chargeback. Language barrier and business practices he's accustomed to did the rest. Sure, there's still the suggestion to fake IDs in OP..

    Agreed.

    He missed to pre-emptively investigate details, but hey he tried to understand the issue and even revoked in doubt his position. That's more than I initially expected to be honest

    Same.

  • Trying to translate ... ‎来我兄弟 ("Come at me bro")

    LOL will be interesting to see outcome if this turns into a legal pissing contest - @cece might do what is called "discovery" to compel evidence from Netcup regarding intentional use of so-called "Dark patterns" (intentionally confusing user interface / marketing / etc. to detriment of consumer) ... albeit at absurd expense for legal bills.

  • bsdguy said: Depends.

    I don't know how it works in DE, all I know is in the UK it's perfectly possible to make a claim and it will cost the claimant nothing more than the time taken to fill out a form.

  • deankdeank Member, Troll

    Lawsuit is always welcome. They are pure drama and entertaining to watch from afar although given the nature of the situation, I doubt it will go far.

    Like the Orville.

  • @mfs said:
    Honestly I believe that OP has tried to understand what happened well beyond the stereotypical Chinese; he double checked what he did and he didn't even attempt a chargeback. Language barrier and business practices he's accustomed to did the rest. Sure, there's still the suggestion to fake IDs in OP..

    He missed to pre-emptively investigate details, but hey he tried to understand the issue and even revoked in doubt his position. That's more than I initially expected to be honest

    That's why I suggested that netcup enhance their help pages, UI, etc.

    While I strongly dislike to quickly create a "provider XYZ is evil!" thread I do see that @cece isn't just an asshole who played foul. I'm not sure that he really performed according to what could be called reasonable and adequate but I also clearly see that netcup (or any other provider doing business with chinese) should do a lot better.

    Another reason that shines a bad light on netcup is the fact that their insane marketing even lures germans into what I can't but call traps.

    In other words, the netcup ceo should fire that obviously weird and not at all kosher marketing boss and hire someone to improve their UI/help/KB/order process.

    Frankly, I pretty much like netcup as a provider but there's something nagging me and keeping me away from ordering netcup produchts: I can't get rid of the impression that netcup has a clearly shady side to it. Regrettably.

    Thanked by 1MikePT
  • Given the general attitude, it does seem quite lucrative for a collector to take on these claims, if enforceable in local law etc.

  • WSSWSS Member

    @ricardo said:
    Given the general attitude, it does seem quite lucrative for a collector to take on these claims, if enforceable in local law etc.

    What we have here in the US is a pretty common thing- where a bad bill is bought for, say, 10% of the original fee. So, that $60 debit would be bought for $6, and then that party would go after the customer for the $60+fees.

  • @uptime

    I have no idea what it means, I must be a fake chinese.

    For the legal affairs, I have collect some of the evidence including screenshot of their panel and the emails they sent to me. Iam not sure what will be going on. But the procedure is really confusing And I did ask for a cancel immediately. Just wait for them to sue me . It is cheap to file a sue here in china , it cost less than 7euro to send you to court.And if you are absnt , you automatically lose it.

  • needavpsneedavps Member
    edited January 2018

    Honestly it cost nothing for a company to use a collector. I thought it was a joke when someone in this thread that netcup uses this as an example... Anyway; everyone took this seriously. Obviously Netcup sold this debt; they don't actually care if it's recoverable.

    Moral of this story is really not to go into a 1 year service if you can't afford to LOSE IT ALL. Why you even do this with netcup with a half completed english website while you yourself don't even speak it fluently. You deserve this trouble but good luck anyway.

  • bsdguybsdguy Member
    edited January 2018

    @cece said:
    @uptime

    I have no idea what it means, I must be a fake chinese.

    For the legal affairs, I have collect some of the evidence including screenshot of their panel and the emails they sent to me. Iam not sure what will be going on. But the procedure is really confusing And I did ask for a cancel immediately. Just wait for them to sue me . It is cheap to file a sue here in china , it cost less than 7euro to send you to court.And if you are absnt , you automatically lose it.

    Let me suggest a different angle: Why don't you just contact netcup again. Polite and friendly. Along the lines "Hey guys, a part of this is my own mistake, but still, your order and cancellation process isn't exactly transparent and obvious. How about me paying 20€ and such owning up to my part of the problem, and you letting go without sending collectors after me or otherwise creating trouble that neither of us wants."?

    That might also serve well as a way to find out whether netcup are assholes who knowingly play the confusion game or whether they are OK albeit somewhat stupid in terms of UI/order process/help...

    Thanked by 1uptime
  • uptimeuptime Member
    edited January 2018

    @cece said:

    I have no idea what it means, I must be a fake chinese.

    Sorry, it is just a poor Google translate attempt of ironic American English slang conveying skepticism in response to a challenge.

    I appreciate your broad perspective and wish you luck, hopefully your point of view is a balance to netcup's user-unfriendly practice, as much as it may be seen as proper by many Germans and some others on LET

  • @bsdguy

    Thanks
    Already did that. I have suggest a less penalty for this, but they keep telling me first on not ask for revoke in the 14 days period, then after I notice I did ask for a cancel,they then keep telling me I didnt reply with a gurranty .so my cancel request was ignored.

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