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Please explicitly tell NETCUP you want cancel it NOW , and ask for confirmation
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Please explicitly tell NETCUP you want cancel it NOW , and ask for confirmation

cececece Member
edited January 2018 in General

Bad English.

I am from China.

two month ago , I have read some posts here recommond netcup "dedi cores" vps (as it is now going on ),and when I subscribed ,it did not ask for paying it ,which is weird but I know I should.I even ask them to pay it in the email. I have build a server and tried for less a few minutes as I remember. Then I cancel my account the same day I register it . And I received a email named " confirmation of your cancellation".

I think it's over here. I just ignore the bill remind mails afterwards.

last week I received a phone call from Beijing calling himeself ANDALIHUA law firm . Firstly they ask me for paying bills with teamviewer which I can 100% sure I never use a commercial verison,they keep asking me for my address my chinese name , finally I ask them to give some prove.

Surprisingly today , I received a email from them ask me for paying the bill.

It's my fault to ignore the bills remind emails AFTER I get a CONFIRMATION EMAIL for CANLLELATION.

And I neither relpy them with MY HAND WRITING SIGNATURE. What a German comany want a Chinese handwriting for ?

Now I calm down , I know that I make something wrong. I think I would pay it after they (BEIJING lawyers) sue me to court.

Just post it here to remind some (Chinese) people.

  1. read everything your provider sent you ,do exactly what they ask you to do or you will be sued.
  2. dont ignore bills ,or you will be sued.
  3. dont sent your ID or anything similarly, or you would 100% be sued if you dont comply with them.
  4. dont use your real name , they just know my full name ,my address ,my telephone number, my photo(maybe), but I know nothing about them.
  5. use VPN everywhere, big brother and his fellows is watching you . (They said they made a mistake about the teamviewer bill and netcup bill ,but you can think further yourself.)
  6. still love lowendtalk

bad day bad mood , but learn something new.

And fcuk myself ,I am not happy with my server , I just trying to be polite, and sucks!

Thanked by 2hostdare vhs
«1345678

Comments

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    This doesn't make any sense.
    You can indeed cancel the service within 14 days.
    If they generated the invoice, but you cancelled within the 14 days, they should just delete it and not actually try to bill you.

    How long did you wait to cancel the service?

    Thanked by 1FHR
  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    Also, I'm unable to read the email written in chinese, how is that related to netcup?

  • mfsmfs Banned, Member
    edited January 2018

    You should always read ToS/AuP and contracts, even more if you're going to sign up with a provider in a different country with possibly different laws and different business practices. Netcup's German billing & cancellation policies have been pretty much underlined on pretty much most threads about them around here.

    What you suggest to your fellow countrymen, anyway, is to commit fraud. If you don't want to use your real name, don't sign up. If you want to fake IDs and the like, don't sign up.

    I've left LET since February 2019, account made inactive on request.

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @mfs said:
    You should always read ToS/AuP and contracts, even more if you're going to sign up with a provider in a different country with possibly different laws and different business practices. Netcup's German billing & cancellation policies have been pretty much underlined on pretty much most threads about them around here.

    What you suggest to your nationals, anyway, is to commit fraud. If you don't want to use your real name, don't sign up. If you want to fake IDs and the like, don't sign up.

    Agreed, using fake details isn't right, at all.

    Anyway, in this particular case, I'd like to hear more, this doesn't make much sense, that law firm/collections agency trying to bill him.

    If he cancelled within the 14 days, they can't do anything about it.

  • cececece Member
    edited January 2018

    Dear Mr Wang:
    
        This is  BEIJING  ANHUALIDA law firm, we were asked to process the bill you owe NETCUP  € 67.38 (the fee: vps service fees)
    after some telephone calls , the customer need some provence. now we have askd netcup to provide us  and it can be seen as attach files.
    please pay the bills and send us the invoice to prove you have paid it.  should you have some question ,you can ask us freely .
    
    best regards.
    
  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited January 2018

    So the news here is that NetCup are such assholes they will hire and send debt collectors after you in your country (even if China), unless you follow their retarded German cancellation procedures, including mailing paper documents with handwritten signatures and whatnot.

  • fkjfkj Member
    edited January 2018

    No, it because that server was a 3 / 6 / 12 months rent, so even you cancel after the first month, you are indeed canceling the server in the coming 2 / 5 / 11 months (aka. you still have to pay and use it for 2 / 5 / 11 months).

    So you canceled the server and believes that the cancellation is immediate, while the German believes that you decided not to use the server anymore after the current renting period ends. The very strange German logic, took me three times to understand it.

  • mfsmfs Banned, Member

    rm_ said: So the news here is that NetCup are such assholes they will hire and send debt collectors after you in your country

    that's really a standard business practice by most major provider (some of them are even here), nothing extraordinary; I don't get how "getting your money" is connected with "being an asshole" and why you wouldn't be bound by the terms of the contracts (and its governing law) you accepted at signup, but ok

    I've left LET since February 2019, account made inactive on request.

  • hostdarehostdare Member, Provider
    edited January 2018

    nobody does like that even some so called bad hosts . should be eye opener for new users !
    similar issues with their hourly billing

    HostDare - One of the cheapest and coolest providers online! :) | Our premium unmanaged vps plans | Cheap Shared Hosting

  • WSSWSS Member

    @rm_ said:
    So the news here is that NetCup are such assholes they will hire and send debt collectors after you in your country (even if China), unless you follow their retarded German cancellation procedures, including mailing paper documents with handwritten signatures and whatnot.

    No. If you hold up your end of the contract, you will be billed only for that. You can literally login to your primary CCP account, click "Cancel" as long as it's before the billing date, and it's done.

    By signing up for a year of service, never paying, and not technically cancelling by not filling out the proper documentation, you're still on the hook for that period.

    Basically like everyone else would do, but the bloodsuckers cost too much.

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited January 2018

    mfs said: that's really a standard business practice by most major provider

    If the contract has been concluded with no paper writing, nobody has grounds to require that the contract needs to be cancelled via paper writing. I know they (and maybe you) are retarded and German and think otherwise, but elsewhere in the civilized world (yes, including in courts) that is the practice that stands.

    As in, you didn't send your handwritten signature to buy a VPS, they can't require you to send a handwritten signature to cancel that VPS.

    Also any "debt" for services yet to be performed is also bullshit, especially if the user has clearly stated he does not require those and in fact already stopped using them.

    Thanked by 3hostdare MikePT chrisp
  • cececece Member
    edited January 2018

    @mfs said:
    You should always read ToS/AuP and contracts, even more if you're going to sign up with a provider in a different country with possibly different laws and different business practices. Netcup's German billing & cancellation policies have been pretty much underlined on pretty much most threads about them around here.

    What you suggest to your fellow countrymen, anyway, is to commit fraud. If you don't want to use your real name, don't sign up. If you want to fake IDs and the like, don't sign up.

    I am not telling people to use fake names or fake IDs. I want to share this case to remind them to obey the law and follow the rules.

    Some things are different between China and the other. And I am trying to learn this.

    I just notice the 14 days without stating a reason . it's something like no question asked for me . And I cancel it the same day I registered, this can be seen from email.

    And it ask me to send the customer full name , number, handwriting , which is really new to me, I didnot know it's a must do procedure. And I have received a email from them named confirmation of your cancelation

    I have use hetzner which is also a german company, when I cancel my server after a few days (its 14 days ), I just press a button, and I even get a full refund.

    about using a VPN :

    the law firm from BEIJING first ask me to pay for a teamviewer bill, they said they can 100% sure that is me who should pay .But I also reaalyy sure I never use a commercial version. three days latter, they tell me its a mistake, which is really weird. I think my information is spread everywhere.

    lesson learnt.

    Thanked by 1mfs
  • Netcup banter.

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • mfsmfs Banned, Member
    edited January 2018

    rm_ said: I know they (and maybe you) are retarded

    Are we resorting at namecalling already? I'm "mentally challenged" enough to check and double check each providers' by-laws and the like before signing up, you know. Even more if they are in a different country. I'm not in the position to judge other country's laws and business practices, and to be honest it would be a wasted effort.

    Also any "debt" for any services yet to be performed

    stopped using

    This may or may not be irrelevant; I wish I were billed less for idling VPSes. But unless it's stated in the contract that I'm billed hourly ("cloud" services), this is irrelevant.

    I'd see an argument here if we were comparing the netcup's "billed-by-the-hour" recent implementation with Hetzner's cloud (both German, marketed as products of the same kind). Or, if we were discussing about the funny way disk space is presented to the prospective clients ( 4x120 RAID10 = 120? 240? 480? )

    I've left LET since February 2019, account made inactive on request.

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited January 2018

    mfs said: I wish I were billed less for idling VPSes.

    What this has to do with anything? A VPS that's been provided to you and idled (irrelevant) is different than trying to collect "debt" right now for a VPS you were going to provide me in August next year.

  • Just avoid Netcup.
    They have crazy badwidth rules, you'll be limited by using more than 80mbps within 60 minutes and the cancellation is not easy except you use the german "Rückgaberecht" within 14 days.

    Two things are infinite: the universe and Hetzner; and I'm not sure about the universe.

    -Albert Einstein

  • MikePTMikePT Member, Provider

    @rm_ said:

    mfs said: that's really a standard business practice by most major provider

    If the contract has been concluded with no paper writing, nobody has grounds to require that the contract needs to be cancelled via paper writing. I know they (and maybe you) are retarded and German and think otherwise, but elsewhere in the civilized world (yes, including in courts) that is the practice that stands.

    As in, you didn't send your handwritten signature to buy a VPS, they can't require you to send a handwritten signature to cancel that VPS.

    Also any "debt" for services yet to be performed is also bullshit, especially if the user has clearly stated he does not require those and in fact already stopped using them.

    Correct. I see it the same way. Plus, he did cancel it in time, it seems, even received the cancellation email (albeit it states it ends in 2018, so wtf is going on?) so they shouldn't just bill him, at all.

    cece said: I just notice the 14 days without stating a reason . it's something like no question asked for me . And I cancel it the same day I registered, this can be seen from email.

    I'd just ignore the bill to be honest.

    Have you been receiving any emails from netcup about this?
    Did you contact them?

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Provider

    Indeed, seeme the op was well within his rights to cancel and not be billed. And German law does not equal global law. No matter how much they think this to be the case! The number of Germans threatening me/my company for some 'violation' of German law, despite being from and located in Hong Kong, is truly astonishing. You'd think they would have learned a think or 2 from their past about imposing their will on others....

    Any way, they are clearly an agressive company that I would stay clear from.

    With all that being said, I really don't understand the Chinese mentality of ordering and cancelling in a single day. It drives me nuts!

    Thanked by 1hostdare
  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited January 2018

    randvegeta said: The number of Germans threatening me/my company for some 'violation' of German law, despite being from and located in Hong Kong, is truly astonishing.

    Well, this is bringing it to the next level, seems like with NetCup they will not just call, they will hire some Hong Kong law company to hassle you. Even if they have no legal grounds to collect money, they can still file a lawsuit is small claims court or the like, and in some jurisdictions if you don't react or don't appear in court, you automatically lose.

  • cececece Member
    edited January 2018

    @MikePT they sent me automation mails about my bill , and now I regret to ignore that . I did not contact them either since this monday afternoon (GMT+8) I got the phone call about this.

  • NeoonNeoon Member
    edited January 2018

    Thats a new level, interesting.

    That wired, they ring you up and asking for the address? wow.

    Thanked by 1cece

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  • fkjfkj Member
    edited January 2018

    @rm_ said:

    randvegeta said: The number of Germans threatening me/my company for some 'violation' of German law, despite being from and located in Hong Kong, is truly astonishing.

    Well, this is bringing it to the next level, seems like with NetCup they will not just call, they will hire some Hong Kong law company to hassle you. Even if they have no legal grounds to collect money, they can still file a lawsuit is small claims court or the like, and in some jurisdictions if you don't react or don't appear in court, you automatically lose.

    Something interest me is that, shall we take the case to court and win (since the court will likely judge the case in local law), how can we collect attorney fees? If we do it by filing another lawsuit in Germany, what if the German court uses that strange German standard again hahaha.

  • cececece Member
    edited January 2018

    @randvegeta

    haha, because it's not as good as some other germany vps.

  • mfsmfs Banned, Member
    edited January 2018

    rm_ said: A VPS that's been provided to you and idled (irrelevant) is different than trying to collect "debt" right now for a VPS you were going to provide me in August next year.

    If you signed up for a yearly service I'm going to bill you for August too, no matter what. "It's not yet August" is irrelevant as much as "I'm idling".

    MikePT said: he did cancel it in time, it seems, even received the cancellation email

    He probably simply clicked "cancel" in the panel and probably didn't ask for the 14-days European consumer protection policy. In the CCP you simply cancel renewals.

    There's also a "contract details" pane where it's stated when it's the last valid date to cancel the next renewal.

    Moreover, as far as their ToC/AGB goes, you're required to send scanned writing papers when they're in doubt of your identity. You're NOT forced to send papers to cancel renewals; you may send papers and you're required to in corner cases; revocation seems one of these cases, while the CCP cancellation supersedes the need for a written cancellation (but it's not the equivalent of a revocation)

    Am sichersten wäre es daher, wenn die Kündigung schriftlich per Brief, Fax oder über den gesicherten Online-Verwaltungsbereich (CCP) erfolgt, soweit diese Möglichkeit zur Verfügung steht.

    It seems to me that OP never asked for the "no questions asked" cancellation of his services; the letter he gets afterwards is yet another thing (a "satisfaction guarantee claim"). So, to me it seems

    • he missed the 14 days "cooling off" period, he simply cancelled renewals

    • his service was still considered active till November 2018, as the cancellation mail confirms

    • OP reads an informative "your right to cancel within 14 days" notice/mail and believes he actually picked the 14 days revocation rather then the renewal cancellation

    • he has been offered a "30 days return" claim because he cancelled the renewal of his contract (well before the minimum 31-days-before-expiry term)

    rm_ said: to the next level

    Debt collection? It really isn't.

    I've left LET since February 2019, account made inactive on request.

  • I think the support rep understood it as cancelation after the billing period? It says the product will be deactivated in 11.11.2018

  • @mfs said:
    Debt collection? It really isn't.

    He ordered something in Germany, he lives in China yes it is.

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  • I think there are two types of cancellation here. First is cancellation of the subscription, meaning it won't be automatically renewed by the end of the billing period. And second the contract cancellation as allowed by 14 days cancellation policy.

    It looks like OP have triggered the first type of cancellation, since the reply from Netcup confirmed the product will be deactivated after 11.11.2018. More of less one year after the contract is started.
    In order to trigger the 14 days cancellation, may be you need a different cancellation form?

  • Not that's I agree generally on skipping debts, but for the OP here is a tiny phrase to repeate to them which seems to be true.

    "I received no material benefit from the service."

    They then need to prove you did, they likely won't bother, unless you did in which case you probably should pay.

    Seems to be a common practice in Germany, I had a server from an LET host in Germany that was down more than it was up, after it turned out to be a motherboard issue from the diagnostics and they told me that they did not have any other hardware to replace it with I said well then the server is of no use to me.

    60 days later I get a demand for payment, they expected me to pay anyway for the broken server, this went on for about 3 months, finally a debt collection agency wrote to me, the basis for the claim by which point was about £500 was that I did not send them cancellation in writing.

    Went on the one of those paid legal advice sites, they said I had no material benefit and that is all I needed to tell them, I did, they left me alone.

    Obviously in my case I could prove I had no material benefit, so as long as they cannot prove you did, you should be fine.

    Thanked by 1t0m

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  • cececece Member
    edited January 2018

    @mfs

    thank you for your patient reply.

    I think my logic goes like:

    1 .you have the possibility to return it within the first 30 days after your order has been placed within the framework of the satisfaction guarantee.

     Yeah , I can cancel it in the first 30days,
    

    2 . you have 14 days cancel without stating a reason.

      Wow , if I cancel it in 14 days ,  I need to do nothing and just cancel it .
    

    3, confirmation of your cancellation ( a email they send to me )
    Ok , they know I have canceld my box.

    1. In this case, we ask you to send us the satisfaction guarantee claim in written form. The following information are essential:
      * Subject: Satisfaction guarantee claim
      * Your customer number
      * Your full name
      * A list of all the products and domains that you want to return
      * Your handwritten signature
      this , I am really regret ignoring that. lesson values 68 euro .

    hahha.

    now I know what's wrong with me . I cancel the server at once , I think I just cancel it . and leave it alone.
    but one the netcup side , I cancel the server for the next year. they just keep it .

    haha .

  • I logged my account after read @mfs posts.

    I think it's still there.

    yes , now I know I am wrong ,

    so if you want to cancel it in the 14 days no stating reason , you should implicity tell them you want cancel it in THIS period , not the renewal time.

    my bad

    netcup is fine , buy it .!

    Thanked by 1mfs
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