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When I asked Virmach for refund, they threatened to charge me more. - Page 7
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When I asked Virmach for refund, they threatened to charge me more.

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Comments

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    Jameswxx said: Complete waste of time? Virmach did add a warning on the addfunds page. So that's would surely only improve user experience.

    Will you accept they are not evil and sometimes you just cant agree with people if I give you $5?

  • JameswxxJameswxx Member
    edited November 2017

    @Clouvider said:

    @Jameswxx said:

    VirMach said: We still provide general billing support for customers with "limited support agreements" as necessary to handle the promises we make in our terms/policies (such as refund within 7 days.)

    Why is it that @Virmach have no problem refunding a service within 7 days, but refunding a deposit, added accidentally or not, is totally, completely, absolutely intolerable and unacceptable?

    Why are you spinning the facts around auto support your narrative ?

    What is my narrative?

    What is my narrative?

    My narrative is in the TITLE. It's that I'm fed up with the heavy-handed way that Virmach communicated with me; at least twice threatening, or in their words "warning", if I do such things they don't like, it will be met with penalties. The time I asked them to reply to me on Paypal, and later my inquiry about the refund, are the main reason I continue to feel aggrieved.
    That's my narrative.

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    You didn’t asked them for a response through PayPal. You have disputed a payment, despite they did everything they should have done and committed fraud in the process.

    But it’s going in the loop with you, you just spin stuff to support your narrative, ignore stuff that doesn’t fit / can’t be spinned.

    Waste of time to even talk with you here. This thread should be closed.

    Thanked by 2farnox maverickp
  • @AnthonySmith said:

    Jameswxx said: Complete waste of time? Virmach did add a warning on the addfunds page. So that's would surely only improve user experience.

    Will you accept they are not evil and sometimes you just cant agree with people if I give you $5?

    I do not make such claim that they are Evil. I just hope they would see fit the communicate with customers in an friendly manner. Not trying to bully people around.

  • @Jameswxx said:

    @AnthonySmith said:

    Jameswxx said: Complete waste of time? Virmach did add a warning on the addfunds page. So that's would surely only improve user experience.

    Will you accept they are not evil and sometimes you just cant agree with people if I give you $5?

    I do not make such claim that they are Evil. I just hope they would see fit the communicate with customers in an friendly manner. Not trying to bully people around.

    And if Virmach can agree with me on that, then I'm satisfied.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    Jameswxx said: I do not make such claim that they are Evil. I just hope they would see fit the communicate with customers in an friendly manner. Not trying to bully people around.

    $10?

    Thanked by 1bugrakoc
  • @Clouvider said:
    You didn’t asked them for a response through PayPal. You have disputed a payment, despite they did everything they should have done and committed fraud in the process.

    You can ask Virmach if I asked for a response through Paypal.

    Clouvider said: Waste of time to even talk with you here.

    The feeling is mutual.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    Edmond said: Yes the customer is wrong, but instead of threating, just refund but withhold the 30 cents PayPal takes.

    We have a problem with that, partial refunds generate accounting complications which are not worth the trouble so we fully refund after the customer acknowledges the mistake and our warnings in place.
    Threatening with a dispute and opening a thread anywhere with half truths and outright lies is treated as blackmail and no refund is given. Paypal will charge the chargeback fee, but this is life, it is partially our fault too for letting this kind of customers in in the first place.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider
  • Nekki said: Pretty sure they confirmed the guy had been offered a refund some time ago.

    It sounds like a refund was offered. I only saw that the PayPal funds were "frozen" which surprised me because I always thought that PayPal lets you refund to end a dispute. Can @VirMach and @Jameswxx confirm a refund was given here?

    VirMach said: This is in no way a violation. We are simply stating that (1) for credit/debit card, the customer does not have to leave our site and (2) for Bitcoin, advertising a Coinbase referral link to get $10 off a deposit.

    It is a violation. The aforementioned terms requires "brand parity" in which you can't

    1. recommend another payment method over PayPal
    2. display another payment method's logo larger than PayPal's, and
    3. charge less using a different payment method.

    You are violating 1 and 3

    We aren't stating that PayPal charges, on average, 2-3% more in fees and we aren't charging the customer these fees.

    It's true, but you can't mention this either.

    Even if we did, I'm pretty sure PayPal does not mind a payment processing fee involved

    They do, and this sort of fee also violates their terms.

  • @Edmond said:

    They do, but do you understand that any customer would be mad if you threaten them to charge more? Yes the customer is wrong, but instead of threating, just refund but withhold the 30 cents PayPal takes.

    Nope. He has terms and conditions. Sticking to them will help him keep customers suitable to his business model and will reduce the numbers of those not suited to his model.

    You cant keep everyone happy.

  • @Jameswxx said:

    VirMach said: We still provide general billing support for customers with "limited support agreements" as necessary to handle the promises we make in our terms/policies (such as refund within 7 days.)

    Why is it that @Virmach have no problem refunding a service within 7 days, but refunding a deposit, added accidentally or not, is totally, completely, absolutely intolerable and unacceptable?

    Does it matter why?
    There are stated and agreed to terms and conditions and these are both in there.
    You agreed to X and got upset when you got X.

  • jiggawattjiggawatt Member
    edited November 2017

    seaeagle said: Does it matter why? There are stated and agreed to terms and conditions and these are both in there. You agreed to X and got upset when you got X.

    Nobody on this thread disputes the terms.

    Refund was a pretty common-sense and rational solution to this problem. It just shows you how much common sense and rationality @VirMach 's support team has, really.

    Thanked by 2Jameswxx Bogdacutuu
  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
    edited November 2017

    @jiggawattz said:

    seaeagle said: Does it matter why? There are stated and agreed to terms and conditions and these are both in there. You agreed to X and got upset when you got X.

    Nobody on this thread disputes the terms.

    Refund was a pretty common-sense and rational solution to this problem. It just shows you how much common sense and rationality @VirMach 's support team has, really.

    And the Customer was refunded, refund probably paid from ACH or Direct Debit or eCheque or whatever form is being used in Virmach country of registration, thus pending. And you, and the OP (who should be already banned in my opinion for fraud) keep flogging the dead horse.

  • seaeagleseaeagle Member
    edited November 2017

    @jiggawattz said:

    seaeagle said: Does it matter why? There are stated and agreed to terms and conditions and these are both in there. You agreed to X and got upset when you got X.

    Nobody on this thread disputes the terms.

    Refund was a pretty common-sense and rational solution to this problem. It just shows you how much common sense and rationality @VirMach 's support team has, really.

    You are disputing the terms. The terms say no refunds. There is a reason for it. The reason is valid. If the customer chooses this course of action losing the customer is better for both parties. Dont refund. The credit is still there. OP still appears to have (had) 4 other services with Virmach. OP is being unreasonable.

  • jiggawattjiggawatt Member
    edited November 2017

    So @Virmach allowed a Customer to be vexed by a completely arbitrary term, when the better solution would have been hassle-free and avoided negative publicity on LET. The Customer comes first.

    Ironic since that @Virmach is openly violating PayPal's terms, albeit for a very valid and decent reason.

    Thanked by 1ikkizenho
  • jiggawattz said: The customer is always right.

    lol

    jiggawattz said: Ironic since that @Virmach is openly violating PayPal's terms, albeit for a very valid and decent reason.

    Do it big man, make the complaint.

    Thanked by 2maverickp bib
  • @jiggawattz said: The customer is always right.

    Some people like to say this, but no one really believes it.

  • JackHJackH Member
    edited November 2017

    tl;dr...

    • OP made mistake and dealt with it in chaotic, confused manner.
    • VirMach responded in way OP wasn't happy with, after a dispute was opened against them.
    • OP comes to LET and makes post.
    • @Clouvider and @AnthonySmith get random stick for apparently nothing???
    • VirMach responds with multiple long, justified posts.

    For what it's worth, VirMach is 100% in the right here. Having said that, the time it's taken them to clear up the mess that OP has (albeit naïvely) caused easily outweighs the time it would have taken for them to hit the refund button in the first place, although I can see why they didn't want to initially.
    Glad OP and VirMach have cleared things up now. Is there really any real reason that this thread has to remain open?

  • @jiggawattz said:
    So @Virmach allowed a Customer to be vexed by a completely arbitrary term, when the better solution would have been hassle-free and avoided negative publicity on LET. The Customer comes first.

    Ironic since that @Virmach is openly violating PayPal's terms, albeit for a very valid and decent reason.

    Successful businesses dont waste time on the wrong customers.

    Thanked by 1jiggawatt
  • Ironic since that @Virmach is openly violating PayPal's terms, albeit for a very valid and decent reason.

    Do it big man, make the complaint.

    Fuck PayPal and fuck PayPal's customer service. @Virmach , who is PayPal's customer, is completely right to charge less for Bitcoin and recommend cards. I'm just trying to show you all how to do the customer-facing side of the business better.

  • jiggawattz said: I'm just trying to show you all how to do the customer-facing side of the business better.

    Well you're doing a swell job of that, so be sure to give yourself a hearty pat on the back.

    Thanked by 1bib
  • jiggawattjiggawatt Member
    edited November 2017

    PM me for Customer success consulting work

  • jiggawattz said: PM me for customer success consulting work

    I'm not questioning what you've achieved in a professional capacity.

  • vanhelsvanhels Member
    edited November 2017

    This post really lost its way some time ago there are many who say that if they are great lawyers coughs can place the rules and regulations of the service but each country has its laws.

    From the point of view of advertising and customer service, this provider loses more than what they would have reimbursed, for example, in my case, I would never contract with them.

    If in the US you receive a deposit by mistake, you are legally bound to return that money for something you call an act of good faith, which we do not see here.

    The negative publicity obtained by the led for a negligible amount will make possible customers flee,

    A clear example is @francisco (buyshared) has a strict control with the payments I assure you that if one deposits there by mistake they automatically return the money.

    Regards,

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    @vanhels at the risk of being abused or accused of getting "nipple hard" or being made out to be a racist, I would like to ask you why you believe this was an accident?

    Not a loaded question I promise, obviously people here have different perspectives and points of view, I am trying to understand why so many people believe that this is an accidental overpayment and why they think it is fine to open a PayPal dispute first and go to the provider afterward for 'billing' support?

    There was a 7 or 8 step process with warnings and agreements all the way until the end, so I don't really consider this an 'accident' more 'buyers remorse' that is my perspective.

    Also, keep in mind, I don't see any issue with refunding it either way.

    Thanked by 2telephone vimalware
  • AnthonySmith said: I am trying to understand why so many people believe that this is an accidental overpayment

    Why wouldn't it be an accident? Do you think the OP was trying to troll an innocent provider?

    Who sends money in "Add Funds" then immediately requests a refund it it's not an accident?

  • vanhelsvanhels Member
    edited November 2017

    @AnthonySmith I will not enter into discussions, generally a company receives funds for an invoice issued, in the case that a client adds funds to his account must have a clear regulation and not threaten the client that they will suspend their services and will charge more, in fact, Many companies do not allow you to add funds to your accounts if there is no tax bill, it's that simple, if you are a hosting provider, you should always take care of your reputation, the threats are never good, you could simply talk to the customer. cordial way, I do not understand what is the problem that the customer has a dispute in PayPal, the provider could show that the error was the customer and ready, without all this negative publicity, all online businesses have ever had disputes in Paypal , and as established by law you are innocent until proven otherwise,

    Regards,

    Thanked by 1lonea
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    jiggawattz said: Who sends money in "Add Funds" then immediately requests a refund it it's not an accident?

    I think it was buyers remorse, again, why do you think you can follow 7 or 8 steps of a process and still say it was an "accident"?

    Again, genuine question.

    vanhels said: @AnthonySmith I will not enter into discussions

    Ok no worries.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    Anyway, life would be boring if everyone agreed with everyone else 100% of the time, the OP got his refund, the approach is a little unusual but everyone got what they wanted in the end.

  • @Clouvider this thread will bring more customers to VirMach so why are you so insistent on closing it?

    @AnthonySmith is boring a bad thing? :)

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