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They do, but do you understand that any customer would be mad if you threaten them to charge more? Yes the customer is wrong, but instead of threating, just refund but withhold the 30 cents PayPal takes.
And I also did not mention that your staff Matthew lied to me when he said the refund is completed.
You twisted my words to suit your own arguments. What I said was Maybe you should warn people before you charge them.
No problem at all, and I have another feedback for you. Update your premium support policy, for at the moment it doesn't seem to cover refunds and disputes either.
That's the title of this thread, isn't it?
I find it hard to understand Virmach's thought process.
"This guy is being difficult, what should we do? Try to intimidate him, that'll shut him up."
@jameswxx Don't click on things like "Add funds". Well I don't understand your thought process either. The title of thread should be "My dumb ass clicked on a button out of pure stupidity!" That is more appropriate!
I've turned my paypal acount upside down several times and still can find nothing about the transaction.
In that case you should've respected your own policy and you should've refused my refund request even after I opened the dispute. Just let Paypal decide whether I have valid ground for my request. If I lose, then the dispute would've been closed. And I would not have blamed you one bit, this was my thinking at the time of opening the dispute, and I would've just get on with it.
Or if your staff had explained to me the detrimental effects a paypal dispute may have on you, of which I have no idea, this would've had every chance of coming to an amicable end.
But what you did was to completely ignore and refuse to engage me on paypal. On your ticket system, you came up with an heavy-handed reply, and I quote once again, "If any paypal disputes are submitted all of your products become suspended as well as a $25 charge-back fee ill be applied to your account ." which I took as threat and an insult at the time and still do if I'm honest. Then you relented, promising that if I cancel the dispute, you would refund the fee.
So if you choose to continue on this confrontational route, don't expect me to back down anytime soon.
Tl;dr
You don't want to be on the receiving end of these, I presume?
@VirMach support done right.
So did the OP filed for paypal chargeback before ticketing for refund?
@Jameswxx what I did when I first bought an LEB, way back in 2012 I think, is research on a lot of host and chose one that has good reputation and fits my budget.
From time to time, when I tried some host because they are ultra cheap, the result was regret.
If you want to reduce stress, do more research.
I sent support tickets for refund before filing for a dispute.
Thanks for the advice.
The customer wasn't threatened. He was warned.
We do suspend other services if a dispute is opened, and we do charge a returned payment fee. However, we like to warn customers and avoid the situation. There are plenty of customers that do appreciate a reminder of our policies, versus seeing a return payment charge and their services suspended for outstanding payment. We like to remind people and avoid the situation, if anyone brings up contacting their bank, PayPal, etc, so they can reconsider before escalating the situation.
Yes, Matthew could have worded it better, but he immediately apologized for any misunderstanding.
He didn't lie. He doesn't have direct access to PayPal, so in his eyes it was a normal refund and it went through on our system. We've never had to deal with a situation where a dispute is opened and the customer is refunded, because once it gets escalated to that point we usually communicate through PayPal.
In this case you were given a courtesy refund by a higher-up staff member, and that staff member also did confirm with you the issue.
My apologies. We didn't mean to twist your words; it was another misunderstanding. You mentioned you want your funds refunded, and mentioned warning people, so we assumed you meant warning about refunds being non-refundable.
In any case, as mentioned above, you are also warned when creating a PayPal agreement that it will be used without returning you to PayPal for confirmation. I would highly recommend contacting PayPal about them modifying the warning/notification on the payment page if it doesn't stand out for you.
We still provide general billing support for customers with "limited support agreements" as necessary to handle the promises we make in our terms/policies (such as refund within 7 days.) However, we're not obligated to provide any further support (such as free disputes, policy exceptions.) If your suggestion is that we remove the returned payment fee, or provide guaranteed policy exceptions for situations where customers do not qualify for a refund, we cannot do that at this time.
That was not the intention, as mentioned above. Matthew gave a friendly warning, before he had to charge you the $25 fee if the dispute was not closed.
This is the first time this has occurred on our end as well. Are you unable to look up the transaction IDs and see that one is pending?
If you would like, you can request PayPal to re-open the dispute, but it's not worth the returned payment fee that will be assessed on your account. We gave an exception as a courtesy to make sure you have a good experience, and to avoid the dispute (which costs us time & money.)
We don't ignore/refuse engagement on PayPal. We handle PayPal disputes seriously and usually communicate exclusively through PayPal once a dispute is opened so all communication is there for PayPal to see.
However, we also do charge a return payment fee, for our time, if this occurs.
Again, we tried to avoid the situation and you saw that as a threat. We don't like having to charge customers returned payment fees, but it has to be done to discourage customers returning payments & to cover the cost associated with disputes and chargebacks. Rest assured, we do not like charging customers $25 or suspending services for outstanding debt, and most the time returned payments cost us more than $25 to handle.
Again, we have no intentions of keeping your $5. Once we promise something, we honor it. However, we also cannot just externally send you your money back manually with a direct payment to you as we do not do that for accounting & security purposes.
We also have no intention of charging you any fees (unless you wish to purchase additional support for things outside the limited support agreement in the future.)
We're discussing this internally to see if we want to do any more special offers with limited support. There's some extremely low-price packages we might have to scrap, but we'll try to make Black Friday as exciting as possible without getting people upset or taking up significant support time.
Something tells me the hosting provider has spent time worth more than the sums already discussed...
@virmach maybe the barrier is not only the language but also cultural difference,any way,thanks for your patient replies.
So @Jameswxx committed a fraud by misrepresenting facts to PayPal and deceived them to open a dispute (as he has himself admitted to by saying he opened a dispute and @Jarland knows there’s no valid reason for it). Fraud is a crime. I don’t think there’s place for fraudsters in the community and I think he should be banned.
I hope @Virmach reports it to both Maxmind and FraudRecord as well as Police, so that none of the other hosts has to deal with him in the future.
This thread should be moved to Offtopic and closed so that the fraudster doesn’t damage @Virmach reputation.
I think you have lost the plot.
You might be surprised. Don't forget the proverb "any publicity is good publicity". Especialy if they make a concerted effort to response in a thorough and thoughtful manner, which they obviously have.
That is very serous allegation. Please correct me if I am wrong ? OP opened dispute for account fund not for services he is getting and then cancelled dispute (which is idiotic I guess and shouldn't do that). He asked for his own money which he added by mistake in his account, that money is still not used in any services so how is that fraud ? and what facts you are talking about misrepresented here ?
The moment he moved that money it wasn’t his money, it was Virmach’s money. Any eventual return of it was Virmach policy, and eventual goodwill gesture only.
Which option can you choose ? Item not delivered? That’s fraud by misrepresentation. There’s literally zero legitimate options for the OP to choose from to open a dispute without deceiving PayPal and committing a fraud in the process.
It's "Item not received". It would be fraud if I have received the item. So technically it's true. You can not fault me for it. If anything it shows what an unprofessional job palpay have done.
Didn't expected to be bogged down by technicalities. No offense, but I don't think your particular opinion is as valued as you think it is. I'd like @Virmach 's opinion on this accusation.
Let's all go outside and look at some grass, no one here died and it's a nice day.
Yeah, I can't believe that this is all about 5 bloody USD that the OP "mistakenly" added to his account. I would understand the matter better if it were 50 USD, but 5 USD??? Especially given that the OP seemed to have a service (or two) with VirMach and otherwise appeared to be a satisfied customer. He could simply have applied the 5 USD to the next billing.
Here's an image I found of what the page/message looks like when you initially checkout, and it happens to be from HostGator.
I must have clicked it in a hurry without reading the small-fonted information. It was the first time I used Paypal and I only used it to pay for your products.
Yeah.
OP doesn’t seem to understand the consequences of his actions. It’s not just buttons that one clicks in the game. Some ‘buttons’ have legal consequences.
But you agreed - which is virtually all that matters. Virmach is not responsible for you choosing to sign stuff without reading.
Why is it that @Virmach have no problem refunding a service within 7 days, but refunding a deposit, added accidentally or not, is totally, completely, absolutely intolerable and unacceptable?
Why are you spinning the facts around auto support your narrative ?
But you did receive the item. You 'added funds' and what you got was a credit balance. That is exactly what you ordered and paid for, and it's exactly what you received.
So by definition, your PP dispute was an act of fraud.
Do you think that not reading an agreement absolves you from being liable for said agreement? That's just crazy talk? Why would click on the 'Agree & Continue' button if you did not agree with the terms? Weather you read the terms of or not is irrelevant. If you agree, you agree.
I'm really not so sure why this is so hard for some people. Chargebacks, refunds, ridiculous ticket volumes, etc. all incur costs for the host. And this is all over a matter of $5? And while you have active services that could be paid for with that $5? This whole ordeal has clearly cost every party more than $5 in time and effort. What a complete waste of time.
Complete waste of time? Virmach did add a warning on the addfunds page. So that's would surely only improve user experience.