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When I asked Virmach for refund, they threatened to charge me more.
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When I asked Virmach for refund, they threatened to charge me more.

JameswxxJameswxx Member
edited November 2017 in General

I mistakenly deposited some money in my Virmach account. They refused to give me a refund. So I tell them I'll go to paypal for help since I used it to pay. That's when they threatened me with suspension of my services and also a "chargeback fee" of 25 dollars if I do that. Could they not have explained to me in more an agreeable manner instead of in the form of this robotic ultimatum which reads"If any paypal disputes are submitted all of your products become suspended as well as a $25 charge-back fee ill be applied to your account ."
This is the conversation.


What happened next is no less frustrating.
I thought we had an agreement when I closed the dispute after they've agreed to the refund. Since then I have been very patient with them. Now the situation is they've taken away my deposited money, and it's been a week but I haven't received the refund. When I asked about it, virmach staff told me that they will start billing my account If I reply to them one more time. That makes private communication with them unfavorable. Having already cancelled the dispute on PayPal, there's nothing I can do. So I want to share my experience here. I did make a mistake by clicking the damn button, although in my defense, I did expect another process in which I can confirm the payment. But it seems in the end I'm the only party that suffered financial loss.

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Comments

  • So, you willingly put money in, decided to ask for it back (which are against their terms of service), and are annoyed that they'll charge you for the fee they're charged for when you reverse it?

    Just get a VPS to idle. It's not like it's very easy to 'accidentally' load your account with funds.

  • HuntersPadHuntersPad Member
    edited November 2017

    If you sent the money your self you are responsible for the terms of it.

  • EdmondEdmond Member
    edited November 2017

    You might want to black out that IP address in the second screenshot. You either just keep the funds in the account or mind as well dispute all your transactions with them because they're going to close your account anyway... But it's still your fault.. The fee's clearly outlined in the fee schedule here (at the bottom): https://virmach.com/terms-conditions/#tab2

  • @Edmond said:
    You might want to black out that IP address in the second screenshot. You either just keep the funds in the account or mind as well dispute all your transactions with them because they're going to close your account anyway if you're going to commit fraud- go for the gusto... But it's sorta still your fault..

    Fixed that for you.

  • OP mistakenly added funds to this account. Virmach won't refund because it is against their terms of service. How would Virmach feel if they mistakenly done the same to one of their own upstream providers and asked for a refund?

    Pretty slimy for Virmach to handle it this way and not worth the bad publicity just because they fall back to their terms of service wording to refuse a refund.

    Thanked by 3switsys dnwk Lee
  • @WSS said:

    @Edmond said:
    You might want to black out that IP address in the second screenshot. You either just keep the funds in the account or mind as well dispute all your transactions with them because they're going to close your account anyway if you're going to commit fraud- go for the gusto... But it's sorta still your fault..

    Fixed that for you.

    Well if they already want China customers, they already have a lot of people committing fraud anyway..

  • @Edmond said:

    @WSS said:

    @Edmond said:
    You might want to black out that IP address in the second screenshot. You either just keep the funds in the account or mind as well dispute all your transactions with them because they're going to close your account anyway if you're going to commit fraud- go for the gusto... But it's sorta still your fault..

    Fixed that for you.

    Well if they already want China customers, they already have a lot of people committing fraud anyway..

    But his phone callIP is coming from inside VirMach!

    SPOOPY!

  • JameswxxJameswxx Member
    edited November 2017

    @WSS said:

    @Edmond said:

    @WSS said:

    @Edmond said:
    You might want to black out that IP address in the second screenshot. You either just keep the funds in the account or mind as well dispute all your transactions with them because they're going to close your account anyway if you're going to commit fraud- go for the gusto... But it's sorta still your fault..

    Fixed that for you.

    Well if they already want China customers, they already have a lot of people committing fraud anyway..

    But his phone callIP is coming from inside VirMach!

    SPOOPY!

    In case you aren't aware of the censorship in CHina, I actually use their server to bypass stupid censor so I can gain access to google.

  • @WSS said:

    @Edmond said:
    You might want to black out that IP address in the second screenshot. You either just keep the funds in the account or mind as well dispute all your transactions with them because they're going to close your account anyway if you're going to commit fraud- go for the gusto... But it's sorta still your fault..

    Fixed that for you.

    Fraud? Why is it fraud? What do they have to lose?

  • MikeAMikeA Member, Provider

    @Weblogics said:
    OP mistakenly added funds to this account. Virmach won't refund because it is against their terms of service. How would Virmach feel if they mistakenly done the same to one of their own upstream providers and asked for a refund?

    Probably wouldn't matter since they have to pay them regardless.

    But yeah... we get the point.

  • EdmondEdmond Member
    edited November 2017

    @WSS said:

    @Edmond said:

    @WSS said:

    @Edmond said:
    You might want to black out that IP address in the second screenshot. You either just keep the funds in the account or mind as well dispute all your transactions with them because they're going to close your account anyway if you're going to commit fraud- go for the gusto... But it's sorta still your fault..

    Fixed that for you.

    Well if they already want China customers, they already have a lot of people committing fraud anyway..

    But his phone callIP is coming from inside VirMach!

    SPOOPY!

    ......... nvm shouldn't noticed that similar IP address......

    Jameswxx said: In case you aren't aware of the censorship in CHina, I actually use their server to bypass stupid censor so I can gain access to google.

    I was talking about the dispute button that people use as the refund button.

    Jameswxx said: Fraud? Why is it fraud? What do they have to lose?

    Fraud because your opening a Paypal dispute even if you paid them yourself and you got what you brought. Now if someone hacked your paypal account and did it or they didn't credit your account it wouldn't be fraud, but you are going to open one anyway.

    People think "oo button on the paypal! Must be refund thing! click"

  • @Jameswxx said:
    Fraud? Why is it fraud? What do they have to lose?

    A chargeback costs them money, and submitting a chargeback to save face because of personal poor judgement is not something we do on this side of the planet. You lose much more face, and people will refuse to do business with you.

    Thanked by 2Janevski maverickp
  • JameswxxJameswxx Member
    edited November 2017

    @WSS said:

    @Jameswxx said:
    Fraud? Why is it fraud? What do they have to lose?

    A chargeback costs them money, and submitting a chargeback to save face because of personal poor judgement is not something we do on this side of the planet. You lose much more face, and people will refuse to do business with you.

    I admit I wasn't aware of that. If they had explained to me instead of threatening to suspend my products I would have no problem with it.

  • @Jameswxx said:
    I admit I wasn't aware of that. If they had explained to me instead of threatening to suspend my products I would have no problem with it.

    You're probably 1 of 50 of these they get a day since they sell their products so cheaply- and also why they charge $3 for trivial changes/etc. I don't think they were intending to be rude, but rather telling you that if you do so, they will seek to recover the difference.

    Leave the money in the account- there will hopefully be some damn nice black friday deals in a few weeks.

  • @Jameswxx said:

    @WSS said:

    @Jameswxx said:
    Fraud? Why is it fraud? What do they have to lose?

    A chargeback costs them money, and submitting a chargeback to save face because of personal poor judgement is not something we do on this side of the planet. You lose much more face, and people will refuse to do business with you.

    If they had explained to me instead of threatening to suspend my products I would have no problem with it.

    Don't believe everything you read on the internet. A chargeback here is not about losing face. I work closely with the Credit Card industry and hundreds of thousands of chargebacks are done on a daily basis...

  • WSSWSS Member
    edited November 2017

    @Weblogics said:
    Don't believe everything you read on the internet. A chargeback here is not about losing face. I work closely with the Credit Card industry and hundreds of thousands of chargebacks are done on a daily basis...

    "I gave you money but I want it back."
    'Sorry.'

    Yeah, totally not about saving face- sometimes it's outright fraud.

    Thanked by 1bib
  • @WSS said:

    @Weblogics said:
    Don't believe everything you read on the internet. A chargeback here is not about losing face. I work closely with the Credit Card industry and hundreds of thousands of chargebacks are done on a daily basis...

    "I gave you money but I want it back."
    'Sorry.'

    Yeah, totally not about saving face- sometimes it's outright fraud.

    Nice of you to edit the PCI Compliance snide remark out of your post before I responded. If you want to go toe to about PCI, bring it on. I deal with this on a daily basis,

  • JameswxxJameswxx Member
    edited November 2017

    I truly feel unfairly treated with their response: "If any paypal disputes are submitted all of your products become suspended as well as a $25 charge-back fee ill be applied to your account ." that's why I started this post. I expect them to try to communicate with customers not give them ultimatums.

  • They're terrible. I suggest finding a better provider and then go through the paypal chargeback.

  • vpsGODvpsGOD Member, Provider
    edited November 2017

    @Jameswxx to all others

    @virmach enables paypal agreement when you checkout first order.

    So when ever you place new order or pay for pending invoice or even adding fund their wont be any confirmation page shown in paypal.com. virmach process it without asking paypal login or paypal checkout page

    This is why OP have issue i hope

    Add fund : http://prntscr.com/h6dzvk

    second(after clicking add fund) : http://prntscr.com/h6dzmu (no action needed just loads)

    third boom money gone

    So i agree @Jameswxx made the amount without knowing the endpoint.

    @Jameswxx Dispute or chargeback is wrong.. just explain whats wrong with their system and get the refund

  • PieHasBeenEatenPieHasBeenEaten Member, Moderator

    lt is your own fault! But when are you going to be a MAN and own up to your own mistakes? So grab your nuts and say I made a mistake! Move on with the consequences of your actions. Fucking millennials

    Jameswxx said: I truly feel unfairly treated with their response: "If any paypal disputes are submitted all of your products become suspended as well as a $25 charge-back fee ill be applied to your account ." that's why I started this post. I expect them to try to communicate with customers not give them ultimatums.

  • @vpsGOD hmm... now that you say that, they usually make paypal subscriptions on their services, so it might have just processed itself without the end user knowing, which is a bit wrong, but then he shouldn't have clicked on it in the first place..

  • vpsGODvpsGOD Member, Provider
    edited November 2017

    @Edmond who knows as a first time user to such agreement process.

    Subscription is different scenario if that done separately to each products. Virmach wont use subscription for individual products.

    Virmach make paypal agreement with user to process all payments invoiced automatically. But most of us think it may be subscription to particular service and fed wrong in end like Jameswxx.

  • The message is clear: "This will generate an invoice that needs to be paid".

    There isn't any information about the payment being automatic, and provider really isn't helpful, refunding it wouldn't have any cost and would keep the customer happy with them, probably signing up for new services in any future date.

  • doghouchdoghouch Member
    edited November 2017

    @alexjj said:
    They're terrible. I suggest finding a better provider and then go through the paypal chargeback.

    You’re the reason (along with the majority of Chinese customers) that we can’t have nice things.

    Thanked by 2maverickp bib
  • @vpsGOD said:
    @Edmond who knows as a first time user to such agreement process.

    Subscription is different scenario if that done separately to each products. Virmach wont use subscription for individual products.

    Virmach make paypal agreement with user to process all payments invoiced automatically. But most of us think it may be subscription to particular service and fed wrong in end like Jameswxx.

    Oh.... okay, didn't know it was different. They need to tell us customers that... It wasn't clear enough... well to anyone who was just clicking around in the panel and expect that nothing bad will happen since they'll be asked to confirm it first.

    This is probably Virmach's fault now, since it's not clear on it's methods for payment collection. Invoice is generated right? I can have it canceled by them or let it expire three days later. It's payment collection method is wrong. You can automatically charge for only the service I agree to, not everything I ever order with you...


    They're billing panel said the complete opposite of what they're doing...

    Thanked by 1vpsGOD
  • I have a 4 gb kvm with them... Just installed windows and it idled until they shut it down for cpu abuse... Maybe windows did an update or something... Dropping it this month...

  • sureiamsureiam Member
    edited November 2017

    This is on the op. But i will say i had considered virmach till i did a bit more research. I have no problem working with smaller companies but they gotta be professional in all regards. Sometimes when your working too hard to pick up customers you lose sight of what it takes to keep them.

    For example one company let me get credit on 1 year term services when i wanted to move down a tier. As a result i picked up several more services worth much more from them. Definitely was in their terms to not allow that by they honored my request (i also ask very respectfully)

    Another during initial questions wouldn't let me move up a tier under a 36 month prepaid agreement and couldn't assure me prices would renew after 36 months for the same price. "A lot can happen in 3 years" was their exact response. well that doesn't make me really want to work with them does it. I don't want a refund just ability to move up a tier and lock in a rate, seems reasonable

    This industry is very competitive but customers will remain with good hosts for many years. Its worth while to try and bend the terms sometimes for simple requests

    Thanked by 1doughmanes
  • I had a similar experience with them but I didn't cancel my dispute.

    I got charged then opened a ticket in less than 15 minutes after the funds were taken. I totally forgot VirMach relies on Paypal subscription similar to blow-and-go's like ComBoZo did. I guess it saves on the billing side of their operation rather than handling invoices.

    My issue was I didn't get any notice that I was about to be charged and the service was meh so I was planning on leaving.

  • Agreed. Virmach is shady as shit, focuses on picking up customers more than it does on leaving them.

    You shouldn't have cancelled the dispute, mate.

    Thanked by 2jiggawattz Droidzone
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