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Bitcoin forked into Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash; Coinify stops trading - thoughts ?
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Bitcoin forked into Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash; Coinify stops trading - thoughts ?

ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider
edited August 2017 in General

As of yesterday the blockchain has forked due to disagreement in the scaling debate between developers and miners, and a new crypto currency was born - Bitcoin cash. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6r05nm/megathread_on_august_1_2017_at_612pm_utc_block/?st=J5UNZXQ3&sh=a6154899 Bitcoin has dipped in value but since recovered most of its losses, the new altcoin however trades significantly lower.

Coinify stopped trading temporarily and any merchant using it, including us, cannot take payments right now https://www.coinify.com/status.

What are your thoughts on the situation?

If you use Coinify, do you plan to change or wait for them to resume trading ?

If changing, who would you recommend as a merchant gateway, that preferably converts to currency immediately as Coinify do (which simplifies accounting significantly).

Do you plan to take Bitcoin cash now too ? If so, what merchant gateway would you recommend for that ?

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Comments

  • KevinjoaKevinjoa Member
    edited August 2017

    Didn't know you take Bitcoin (coinify), see your terms:

    20.5 Fees must be paid by Credit Cards, Debit Cards, Direct Debit, PayPal, Bank transfer, Cheque (using such payment details as are notified by Clouvider to the Customer from time to time).

    For Bitcoin payments I very much prefer bitpay, automatic conversion and low fees.

    Greetings Kevin

    Thanked by 2Clouvider Fries
  • TomTom Member

    Honestly I didn't think the split would have went as smoothly as it did, quite surprised.

    A number of my bitcoin exchanges have resumed trading, I know Kraken will be supporting with Bitcoin and Bcash but I don't think Coinbase will. I'd wait for Coinify to let you know what they're going to support and make a decision from there.

    Thanked by 2Clouvider Droid
  • MagicalTrainMagicalTrain Member
    edited August 2017

    I got an email a few days ago from @DavidGestionDBI where they announced that they were temporarily suspending bitcoin payments during this fork. Makes sense, honestly, from the little Ive read it seems its not 100% sure which of the two bitcoins is actually the one that is going to be used in the future, so coinify needs to wait and see which is the one coming out on top. At least thats how I understood it.

    Thanked by 2Tom Clouvider
  • KenobisVPSKenobisVPS Member
    edited August 2017

    BCH is definitely a lot better than BTC at the moment. If a decent amount of miners accept BCH, both of them would be increasing well.

    At the moment, it's pretty unpredictable to jump in. We should wait at least 1 month imho.

    Thanked by 1Clouvider
  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    @Kevinjoa IIRC they store Bitcoin until they pay out, which makes it impossible to properly account for currency gains and losses in the UK - could backfire depending what definition is adopted by HMRC.

  • I have been trying to wrap my head around this as well. If this is a new currency then.

    1. All current bitcoins still exist. Value of bitcoin is total market cap / number of bitcoins in existence.

    2. Bitcoin cash is new and had zero market cap and zero bitcoin cash units. Until people started trading cash or bitcoins for bitcoin cash it had no market cap. How can people buy bitcoin cash if the units don't exist yet, as they have not been mined. If folks can buy bitcoin cash units beyond what actually exists, how can this happen.

    This kind of looks like a Mexican devaluation. Same market cap, more units of currency then before. Please tell me where I am off here.

  • FranciscoFrancisco Top Host, Host Rep, Veteran
    edited August 2017

    FrankZ said: Bitcoin cash is new and had zero market cap and zero bitcoin cash units. Until people started trading cash or bitcoins for bitcoin cash it had no market cap. How can people buy bitcoin cash if the units don't exist yet, as they have not been mined. If folks can buy bitcoin cash units beyond what actually exists, how can this happen.

    You automatically get BCH shares equal to however much BTC you had in your wallet at the time of the fork, that's where the units are coming from.

    They didn't start their own chain from scratch.

    Francisco

    Thanked by 2FrankZ Clouvider
  • Yea @Tom ("But I don't think Coinbase will")

    I already read a statement from coinbase that they will assess it. They said atm it's too much work to code and integrate etc while not even knowing if Bcash will be a real thing. So perhaps in a couple months they'll support it.

    Thanked by 1Tom
  • FrankZFrankZ Veteran
    edited August 2017

    Francisco said: They didn't start their own chain from scratch.

    Forked at block 478,558 and now two separate blockchains. The old units still exist (16,483,462 BTC) and new units are old units and new units after the fork. (units:16,482,113 BCH)

    An effort to create an alternative version of the bitcoin blockchain is officially moving ahead.

    After running into roadblocks this morning, miners were able to successfully create a block on a new blockchain, called Bitcoin Cash, at roughly 2:14 p.m. ET today. The move effectively finds the miners breaking away from the main bitcoin network and forging ahead with a different technical roadmap.

    https://coindesk.com/bitcoin-cash-just-mined-first-block-making-blockchain-split-official/

    I am still confused
    Edit: I get it.
    Edit 2: This helped.

    Ryan Taylor, CEO of Dash Core, had this to say:

    “There are many misconceptions about Bitcoin Cash and what it represents. To be clear, Bitcoin is not forking. Rather, some developers have created a new digital currency and formulated an effective means of distributing it, by giving it to everyone with an existing Bitcoin balance.”
    https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-forks-into-two-new-era-dawns-for-bitcoin

    Thanked by 1vimalware
  • nicenice Member

    Boring cash! Hopefully all the drama will end soon.

    You should be accepting payments without any third party who increase price and eats a % here and there.

  • @nice said:
    Boring cash! Hopefully all the drama will end soon.

    You should be accepting payments without any third party who increase price and eats a % here and there.

    Yea. You should also accept credit cards directly without a merchant account, and build your own data center so you don't have to pay those pesky middle man fees. In fact, why are you shopping for consumer goods at a supermarket? Third parties keep marking that stuff up. You should go grow all your own food and live on a self sustaining farm. Wait a second.. I hope you're not paying for internet from an ISP... They mark up their pricing you know? You should probably peer directly with all the tier 1 networks and be your own ISP so that you can avoid more markups.

  • datanoisedatanoise Member
    edited August 2017

    FrankZ said: Ryan Taylor, CEO of Dash Core, had this to say: “There are many misconceptions about Bitcoin Cash and what it represents. To be clear, Bitcoin is not forking. Rather, some developers have created a new digital currency and formulated an effective means of distributing it, by giving it to everyone with an existing Bitcoin balance.” https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-forks-into-two-new-era-dawns-for-bitcoin

    You could see it the other way around: some people decided to create a fork to keep bitcoin as it was (100% on chain, no segwit) while other people did take over BTC to make it move (slowly though) to segwit and later on LN / offchain transactions AKA paypal 2.0.

    Anyway. Saying that bitcoin cash is just 'yet another altcoin' is far from the truth, from what I did read...

    2 different visions. Saying that one of those is not "bitcoin" is misleading: they are both bitcoin, and they both aren't...

    I don't know what will become of both though, but would be curious to know, even if I think that this cryptocurrency thing is kinda absurd (what a waste of energy! ecological cost of each transaction is huge: PoW can't really scale IMO)...

    edit: https://news.bitcoin.com/core-think-bitcoin-cash/

    Thanked by 2FrankZ Clouvider
  • nicenice Member

    @Jonchun said:

    @nice said:
    Boring cash! Hopefully all the drama will end soon.

    You should be accepting payments without any third party who increase price and eats a % here and there.

    Yea. You should also accept credit cards directly without a merchant account, and build your own data center so you don't have to pay those pesky middle man fees. In fact, why are you shopping for consumer goods at a supermarket? Third parties keep marking that stuff up. You should go grow all your own food and live on a self sustaining farm. Wait a second.. I hope you're not paying for internet from an ISP... They mark up their pricing you know? You should probably peer directly with all the tier 1 networks and be your own ISP so that you can avoid more markups.

    LOL! Thanks for the laughs. =)

  • @datanoise said:

    FrankZ said: Ryan Taylor, CEO of Dash Core, had this to say: “There are many misconceptions about Bitcoin Cash and what it represents. To be clear, Bitcoin is not forking. Rather, some developers have created a new digital currency and formulated an effective means of distributing it, by giving it to everyone with an existing Bitcoin balance.” https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-forks-into-two-new-era-dawns-for-bitcoin

    You could see it the other way around: some people decided to create a fork to keep bitcoin as it was (100% on chain, no segwit) while other people did take over BTC to make it move (slowly though) to segwit and later on LN / offchain transactions AKA paypal 2.0.

    Anyway. Saying that bitcoin cash is just 'yet another altcoin' is far from the truth, from what I did read...

    2 different visions. Saying that one of those is not "bitcoin" is misleading: they are both bitcoin, and they both aren't...

    I don't know what will become of both though, but would be curious to know, even if I think that this cryptocurrency thing is kinda absurd (what a waste of energy! ecological cost of each transaction is huge: PoW can't really scale IMO)...

    edit: https://news.bitcoin.com/core-think-bitcoin-cash/

    Dude, they have like under <10% of the original BTC hashing power. Even less than ETH! If they aren't an altcoin than what are they... Altcoins are nice and I actually mine some. BCC fits the criteria for an altcoin perfectly. They just share the same parent chain as BTC.

  • HxxxHxxx Member

    Stripe converts bitcoins to currency upon receiving payment.

    @Clouvider said:
    As of yesterday the blockchain has forked due to disagreement in the scaling debate between developers and miners, and a new crypto currency was born - Bitcoin cash. See: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/6r05nm/megathread_on_august_1_2017_at_612pm_utc_block/?st=J5UNZXQ3&sh=a6154899 Bitcoin has dipped in value but since recovered most of its losses, the new altcoin however trades significantly lower.

    Coinify stopped trading temporarily and any merchant using it, including us, cannot take payments right now https://www.coinify.com/status.

    What are your thoughts on the situation?

    If you use Coinify, do you plan to change or wait for them to resume trading ?

    If changing, who would you recommend as a merchant gateway, that preferably converts to currency immediately as Coinify do (which simplifies accounting significantly).

    Do you plan to take Bitcoin cash now too ? If so, what merchant gateway would you recommend for that ?

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    Hxxx said: Stripe converts bitcoins to currency upon receiving payment.

    That was my first thought, but unfortunately that works in the US only, they won't activate it on a UK account. :(

  • @Clouvider said:

    Hxxx said: Stripe converts bitcoins to currency upon receiving payment.

    That was my first thought, but unfortunately that works in the US only, they won't activate it on a UK account. :(

    I don't understand why companies like Bitpay restrict it to certain countries, I mean they could just do a international bank transfer and let the receiving bank exchange the funds from US dollars to your local money. But than it'll cost a lot on fees.

  • @nulldev said:
    Dude, they have like under <10% of the original BTC hashing power. Even less than ETH! If they aren't an altcoin than what are they... Altcoins are nice and I actually mine some. BCC fits the criteria for an altcoin perfectly. They just share the same parent chain as BTC.

    Based on hashpower as well as longest blockchain they are indeed not BTC. But aren't they closer to the initial whitepaper? Hard to tell as it's subject to interpretation.

  • See, i knew my investment in potatoes instead will pay off. I am not hungry and if in peril I can use the potatoes as a weapon - instead of stones. What other currency can do that? Even better than gold, because potato put into earth multiplies.

    Thanked by 2M66B Yura
  • @Tom said:
    Honestly I didn't think the split would have went as smoothly as it did, quite surprised.

    A number of my bitcoin exchanges have resumed trading, I know Kraken will be supporting with Bitcoin and Bcash but I don't think Coinbase will. I'd wait for Coinify to let you know what they're going to support and make a decision from there

    Do you mine ?

  • @inthecloudblog said:

    @Tom said:
    Honestly I didn't think the split would have went as smoothly as it did, quite surprised.

    A number of my bitcoin exchanges have resumed trading, I know Kraken will be supporting with Bitcoin and Bcash but I don't think Coinbase will. I'd wait for Coinify to let you know what they're going to support and make a decision from there

    Do you mine ?

    Mine Potatoes? Of course every year why wouldn't I?

    Thanked by 1inthecloudblog
  • TomTom Member

    @inthecloudblog said:

    @Tom said:
    Honestly I didn't think the split would have went as smoothly as it did, quite surprised.

    A number of my bitcoin exchanges have resumed trading, I know Kraken will be supporting with Bitcoin and Bcash but I don't think Coinbase will. I'd wait for Coinify to let you know what they're going to support and make a decision from there

    Do you mine ?

    Bitcoin? No, not worth it at all. I mine a little bit of Monero, not much though.

    Thanked by 1inthecloudblog
  • Please don't invite the reddit flamewar people here. scared

  • WSSWSS Member

    lol just lol

  • ClouviderClouvider Member, Patron Provider

    Just got this.

    Dear Merchant,
    We offer you a recap on the latest developments in Bitcoin Scaling.

    The anticipated ‘hard fork’ event happened at around 22:00 CEST on August 1, when the first block of new currency Bitcoin Cash was created. This means that from now on, two separate bitcoin blockchains exist: Bitcoin Classic (BTC/BTX as the original currency) and Bitcoin Cash (BCC/BCH as the new currency). As we have previously informed you, Coinify will continue to provide services with the original currency Bitcoin Classic and will consider implementing Bitcoin Cash in the near future.

    >

    Coinify has previously announced plans for temporary downtime during this uncertainty period in order to protect its users from possible risks. After assessing the situation, we decided that is is safe to enable our services again. We are aware that this downtime could cause some of you inconvenience and can lead to some service delays, for which we want to apologise.

    >

    You are welcome to contact us at support(at)coinify.com in case you have any other question.

    >

    Best regards,
    Coinify Team

    Happy to see Coinify enabled again :)

  • Such magic internet money.

    Anyone wants to sell 200EUR~ BTC? Paypal/Skrill/Bank. PM.

  • Honestly I stopped my antminers s9's

  • I stopped all trading and now only do cash. Upfront I don't care what color it is, it all spends some place. Cold hard cash by unmarked envelope is the way of the future.

  • TomTom Member

    Well they changed their mind quickly.

    Dear Coinbase customer, 
    
    We wanted to give our customers an update on the recent Bitcoin hard fork. You can read more about what a digital currency fork is here:
    
    https://blog.coinbase.com/what-is-a-bitcoin-fork-cba07fe73ef1
    
    Forks enable innovation and improvements to digital currency and we believe that we will see an increasing number of forks in the future. We expect this to be a vibrant and innovative community.
    
    When a digital currency forks, it creates a new digital asset. Adding new digital assets to Coinbase must be approached with caution. Not every asset is immediately safe to add to Coinbase from a technical stability, security, or compliance point of view. 
    
    Our top priority is the safety of customer funds and we spend extensive time designing, building, testing and auditing our systems to ensure that the digital asset we support remains safe and secure. We may not always be first in adding an asset, but if we do, you can be sure that we’ve invested significant time and care into supporting it securely. We believe this is the best approach for us to maintain customer trust.
    
    In the case of bitcoin cash, we made clear to our customers that we did not feel we could safely support it on the day it was launched. For customers who wanted immediate access to their bitcoin cash, we advised them to withdraw their bitcoin from the Coinbase platform. However, there are several points we want to make clear for our customers:
    
    
    Both bitcoin and bitcoin cash remain safely stored on Coinbase.
    Customers with balances of bitcoin at the time of the fork now have an equal quantity of bitcoin cash stored by Coinbase.
    We operate by the general principle that our customers should benefit to the greatest extent possible from hard forks or other unexpected events.
    Over the last several days, we’ve examined all of the relevant issues and have decided to work on adding support for bitcoin cash for Coinbase customers. We made this decision based on factors such as the security of the network, customer demand, trading volumes, and regulatory considerations.
    
    We are planning to have support for bitcoin cash by January 1, 2018, assuming no additional risks emerge during that time.
    
    Once supported, customers will be able to withdraw bitcoin cash. We'll make a determination at a later date about adding trading support. In the meantime, customer bitcoin cash will remain safely stored on Coinbase.
    
    Thank you,
    
    Coinbase Team
    
    Thanked by 1Clouvider
  • Sadly Coinbase will only be supporting bitcoin cash by January 1, 2018, assuming no additional risks emerge during that time.

    January 1, 2018 is too late. A few days of delay is acceptable but now they say customers need to wait for 4 months.

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