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Debian 9 appears today
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Debian 9 appears today

If all goes well, Debian 9 appears today. Yay!

"Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

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Comments

  • I recently switched from Debian to arch. Let see if this update brings some good features.

  • @cyberpersons said:
    I recently switched from Debian to arch. Let see if this update brings some good features.

    Nothing out of the ordinary.

  • @varunchopra said:

    @cyberpersons said:
    I recently switched from Debian to arch. Let see if this update brings some good features.

    Nothing out of the ordinary.

    Than why go through all the trouble?

  • @cyberpersons said: I recently switched from Debian to arch. Let see if this update brings some good features.

    Debian (stable) and Arch (a rolling release) are in two different comparison classes.

    A more reasonable comparison would be Debian testing or Debian unstable to Arch, but this isn't the point of this thread!

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • @cyberpersons said:

    @varunchopra said:

    @cyberpersons said:
    I recently switched from Debian to arch. Let see if this update brings some good features.

    Nothing out of the ordinary.

    Than why go through all the trouble?

    I'll rephrase it before anyone throws a fit.

    Nothing out of the ordinary for me.*

    https://wiki.debian.org/DebianEdu/Documentation/Stretch/Features I don't see anything that'd compel me to switch.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • williewillie Member

    Wow, I need a server to distribute Linux isos, I mean for real!

    Thanked by 1angstrom

    #lexit spread the word.

  • @cyberpersons @varunchopra: No need to be party poopers. No one is asking you to switch from anything.

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • @angstrom said:
    @cyberpersons @varunchopra: No need to be party poopers. No one is asking you to switch from anything.

    Maybe I wanted to. :)

  • @cyberpersons said:

    @angstrom said:
    @cyberpersons @varunchopra: No need to be party poopers. No one is asking you to switch from anything.

    Maybe I wanted to. :)

    Maybe you wanted to be a party pooper? Or maybe you wanted to switch?

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • bersybersy Member

    Perhaps @cociu will consider to add Debian 8 template now.

  • @bersy said:
    Perhaps @cociu will consider to add Debian 8 template now.

    for some reason those templates are selectable for my storage server (they completely broke it, can't even reinstall now).

  • caracalcaracal Member
    edited June 2017

    @bersy said:
    Perhaps @cociu will consider to add Debian 8 template now.

    That seems like a stretch (sorry, couldn't help it)

    Do all Debian versions go onto LTS?

    edit; seems 9 goes to 2022 https://wiki.debian.org/LTS
    edit2: and debian7 ends support in 2018

    Thanked by 2angstrom raindog308
  • @mosan7763 said: @bersy said: Perhaps @cociu will consider to add Debian 8 template now.

    for some reason those templates are selectable for my storage server (they completely broke it, can't even reinstall now).

    Although I don't have much insight into cociu's set-up, I believe that those recent storage servers are LXC (and not OpenVZ) and my guess is that the host OS is newer there than on his other (older) servers, which are OpenVZ and don't offer Debian 8 or Ubuntu 16.04.

    Thanked by 1bersy

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    Interesting, just as a point of historical record.. when solusvm v2 was first announced as being in development, Debian 5 had not yet gone EOL! :)

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    Interesting, just as a point of historical record.. when solusvm v2 was first announced as being in development, Debian 5 had not yet gone EOL! :)

    Debian 5 (lenny) is such a distant memory now. It went EOL on 06 Feb. 2012.

    https://www.debian.org/releases/lenny/index.en.html

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider

    angstrom said: Debian 5 (lenny) is such a distant memory now.

    So is the idea of a fresh lease of life into SolusVM :p

    I am no longer active here, find me at https://talk.lowendspirit.com (Just like LET without the scams)

  • I too want a switch. It looks a great, imagine a home console that can be played on the go.

    Now, if I can just install Centos on the switch.

  • @yokowasis said:
    I too want a switch. It looks a great, imagine a home console that can be played on the go.

    Now, if I can just install Centos on the switch.

    ??

    You want a switch, and you want to install CentOS on the switch?

    What does this have to do with Debian 9?

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • woohoo. I might even skip Ubuntu 16.04 upgrade on desktops and go full Debian with the modern userland.

    Thanked by 1angstrom

    USA storage KVM €25/yr 1G, 500GB (RAID6)
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  • @angstrom said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I too want a switch. It looks a great, imagine a home console that can be played on the go.

    Now, if I can just install Centos on the switch.

    ??

    You want a switch, and you want to install CentOS on the switch?

    What does this have to do with Debian 9?

    Because I prefer centos over debian

  • sinsin Member
    edited June 2017

    I've been using Debian Stretch for a month or so on my servers and it's been rock solid. 4.9 Kernel, PHP7, nftables, a newer version of systemd, etc. If you use iptables you might want to check out nftables in Debian Stretch. I migrated to nftables and I love it so far.

    http://ral-arturo.org/2017/05/05/debian-stretch-stable-nftables.html

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • raindog308raindog308 Administrator, Moderator

    sin said: If you use iptables you might want to check out nftables

    God I hate Linux and wish it would die and be replaced by something better.

    Every year they replace things just to replace things. How many freakin' firewalls have been "the standard" now? ipfwadm, ipchanges, iptables, nftables...firewalld in there somewhere...

    For LET support, please visit the support desk.

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited June 2017

    raindog308 said: God I hate Linux and wish it would die and be replaced by something better.

    Every year they replace things just to replace things. How many freakin' firewalls have been "the standard" now? ipfwadm, ipchanges, iptables, nftables...firewalld in there somewhere...

    If you hate things replacing other things, why do you want Linux replaced O.o

    Thanked by 2Yura nulldev
  • netomxnetomx Member, Moderator

    @yokowasis said:

    @angstrom said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I too want a switch. It looks a great, imagine a home console that can be played on the go.

    Now, if I can just install Centos on the switch.

    ??

    You want a switch, and you want to install CentOS on the switch?

    What does this have to do with Debian 9?

    Because I prefer centos over debian

    Don't start a fight, please

    Thanked by 1Pwner
  • @mosan7763 said:

    @bersy said:
    Perhaps @cociu will consider to add Debian 8 template now.

    for some reason those templates are selectable for my storage server (they completely broke it, can't even reinstall now).

    Same thing here got moved off Nightmare Vel8 to Vel10 tried installing Ubuntu 16.04 thinking there was support for it.....Locked it up

  • @yokowasis said:

    @angstrom said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I too want a switch. It looks a great, imagine a home console that can be played on the go.

    Now, if I can just install Centos on the switch.

    ??

    You want a switch, and you want to install CentOS on the switch?

    What does this have to do with Debian 9?

    Because I prefer centos over debian

    He means why did you post that in this thread, since the Switch has no relevance to Debian 9

    Thanked by 1angstrom

    Favourite host in general: Ramnode (affiliate link)
    Favourite host for hourly billing/custom ISOs: Vultr ($50 free credit for new accounts, affiliate link)

  • @yokowasis said:

    @angstrom said:

    @yokowasis said:
    I too want a switch. It looks a great, imagine a home console that can be played on the go.

    Now, if I can just install Centos on the switch.

    ??

    You want a switch, and you want to install CentOS on the switch?

    What does this have to do with Debian 9?

    Because I prefer centos over debian

    Please try to stay on topic.

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • @acidpuke said: Same thing here got moved off Nightmare Vel8 to Vel10 tried installing Ubuntu 16.04 thinking there was support for it.....Locked it up

    That doesn't sound good.

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • @raindog308 said:

    sin said: If you use iptables you might want to check out nftables

    God I hate Linux and wish it would die and be replaced by something better.

    Every year they replace things just to replace things. How many freakin' firewalls have been "the standard" now? ipfwadm, ipchanges, iptables, nftables...firewalld in there somewhere...

    It'll be fun to try to convert rules in iptables into rules in nftables!

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • jarjar Provider

    Who needs firewalls anyway? You only live once.

    Thanked by 1FredQc

    MagicSpam blackmails providers into buying their software, and ServerHub is a professional spam organization.

  • stefemanstefeman Member
    edited June 2017

    @jarland said:
    Who needs firewalls anyway? You only live once.

    I'm running RedStar 3.0 from Proxmox using a public IP and no firewall. I managed to get Apache working so it's running my portfolio right now. What could go wrong?

    Though I did delete the activity monitor with rpm -e activitymonitor and changed languages to english and killed scnprc and opprc permanently by disabling rtscan via resctl.py.

    Other than that, it's pretty solid OS for many things. Highly recommended!

    Anyone interested should read:
    https://richardg867.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/notes-on-red-star-os-3-0/
    http://www.osnews.com/permalink?602834
    https://github.com/takeshixx/redstar-tools/blob/master/README.md

    For the neccessary steps to make it operational.

  • sinsin Member

    angstrom said: It'll be fun to try to convert rules in iptables into rules in nftables!

    There's an iptables-translate tool that works really well so you can convert individual rules or convert all your rules at once. I just used the examples from the nftables docs (the syntax is super easy) to make a firewall for my webservers.

    Here's a simple /etc/nftables.conf that works for both ipv4 and ipv6 and allows tcp ports 22, 80, 443, and denies all incoming traffic (and allows outgoing).

    #!/usr/sbin/nft -f
    
    flush ruleset
    
    table inet filter {
        chain input {
            type filter hook input priority 0; policy drop;
    
            # accept any localhost traffic
            iif lo accept
    
            # accept traffic originated from us
            ct state established,related accept
    
            # drop and count invalid packets
            ct state invalid counter drop
    
            # accept ssh, http, and https
            tcp dport { 22, 80, 443 } ct state new accept
    
            # accept icmp
            ip protocol icmp icmp type { echo-reply, destination-unreachable, echo-request, time-exceeded, parameter-problem } accept
    
            # accept all icmpv6
            ip6 nexthdr icmpv6 accept
    
            # count and reject everything else
            counter reject with icmpx type admin-prohibited
        }
    
        chain forward {
            type filter hook forward priority 0; policy drop;
        }
    
        chain output {
            type filter hook output priority 0; policy accept;
        }
    
    }
    
    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • @stefeman said:

    @jarland said:
    Who needs firewalls anyway? You only live once.

    I'm running RedStar 3.0 from Proxmox using a public IP and no firewall. I managed to get Apache working so it's running my portfolio right now. What could go wrong?

    Though I did delete the activity monitor with rpm -e activitymonitor and changed languages to english and killed scnprc and opprc permanently by disabling rtscan via resctl.py.

    Other than that, it's pretty solid OS for many things. Highly recommended!

    Anyone interested should read:
    https://richardg867.wordpress.com/2015/01/01/notes-on-red-star-os-3-0/
    http://www.osnews.com/permalink?602834
    https://github.com/takeshixx/redstar-tools/blob/master/README.md

    For the neccessary steps to make it operational.

    Please try to stay on topic. (Red Star OS 3 has nothing to do with Debian 9.)

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • rm_rm_ Member

    sin said: There's an iptables-translate tool that works really well so you can convert individual rules or convert all your rules at once

    Nope, just nope. There is no actual justification or pressing need to move from iptables to this. I didn't get to witness what was the reason for abandoning all the previous firewall systems @raindog308 mentioned, but iptables is here today and it works. Nftables feels exactly like when people suggest to switch everyone over from English to Esperanto. Sure, it may have its benefits and whatnot, but how practical or feasible would that be. And would you or anyone want to put in the effort, just for a few fringe perks, while you are already fluent in English and that is a skill which is way more universally applicable.

    Thanked by 3jar marrco Pwner
  • thx

    Thanked by 1ricardo
  • @rm_ said:

    sin said: There's an iptables-translate tool that works really well so you can convert individual rules or convert all your rules at once

    Nope, just nope. There is no actual justification or pressing need to move from iptables to this. I didn't get to witness what was the reason for abandoning all the previous firewall systems @raindog308 mentioned, but iptables is here today and it works. Nftables feels exactly like when people suggest to switch everyone over from English to Esperanto. Sure, it may have its benefits and whatnot, but how practical or feasible would that be. And would you or anyone want to put in the effort, just for a few fringe perks, while you are already fluent in English and that is a skill which is way more universally applicable.

    Naturally, one is free to continue using iptables if one wants.

    But nftables introduces a number of improvements:

    https://wiki.nftables.org/wiki-nftables/index.php/Why_nftables?

    Thanked by 1sin

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • sinsin Member
    edited June 2017

    rm_ said: Nope, just nope

    Well of course you can use whatever you want, who said there was a pressing need to move? It's just a cool alternative and what comes after netfilter.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nftables

    Things like firewalld is just a management tool for iptables, nftables is the actual successor to iptables.

    Thanked by 1angstrom
  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited June 2017

    Yes I know all of these and that's why I said "a few fringe perks".

    Avoid code duplication and inconsistencies: Many of the iptables extensions are protocol specific, so there is no a consolidated way to match packet fields, instead we have one extension for each protocol that it supports. This bloats the codebase with very similar code to perform a similar task: payload matching.

    Matters only for kernel developers, not end-users.

    Faster packet classification through enhanced generic set and map infrastructure.

    Don't see any proof demonstrating that the current packet classification is "slow", with benchmarks showing real world definitive improvement.

    Simplified dual stack IPv4/IPv6 administration, through the new inet family that allows you to register base chains that see both IPv4 and IPv6 traffic.

    Okay, although it's not difficult to type an extra "6" for ip6tables.

    Better dynamic ruleset updates support.

    You can update rules dynamically with iptables, and that's not something that is required often in the first place.

    Provide a Netlink API for third party applications, just as other Linux Networking and Netfilter subsystem do.

    Again, matters for developers only.

    Address syntax inconsistencies and provide nicer and more compact syntax.

    Yeah, just like Esperanto.

    So basically not a single reason aside from "nicer syntax" (which is also very subjective and debatable; I for one like iptables syntax better).

    Thanked by 1marrco
  • @rm_ said:

    Matters only for kernel developers, not end-users.

    Again, matters for developers only.

    So, the people who build the actual stuff, don't get to make their own toys for their convenience but for some reason, they have to stay forever to a specific set, because ...?

    Thanked by 2jar angstrom
  • @jarland said:
    Who needs firewalls anyway?

    ... those MongoDB guys? :)

  • rm_rm_ Member
    edited June 2017

    deadbeef said: So, the people who build the actual stuff, don't get to make their own toys for their convenience

    They can play with those all they want -- but don't expect anyone else to want to.

    Put it this way -- imagine a car comes out which must be controlled with a steering wheel that reacts inversely and is facing backwards. The main justification they give is that those are easier to make at the factory. Now go, re-learn how to drive! Because people who build, toys for convenience. Or something.

  • @rm_ said:

    deadbeef said: So, the people who build the actual stuff, don't get to make their own toys for their convenience

    They can play with those all they want -- and don't expect anyone else to want to.

    No, no, you've got this backwards. The OS is built for the devs. If you as a user enjoy their choices, you use it. Otherwise, there's other devs with other choices that make other OSs.

    Put it this way -- imagine a car comes out which must be controlled with a steering wheel that reacts inversely and is facing backwards. The main justification they give is that those are easier to make at the factory. Now go, re-learn how to drive! Because people who build, toys for convenience. Or something.

    I pay for the car. The car maker has incentive to cater to my preferences first. I don't pay for Debian. They don't have any incentive to cater to my preferences first.

    In relation with your story, the steering wheel is put on the place that the engineers fancy to have it, because why not.

    Thanked by 2jar angstrom
  • @rm_ said: So basically not a single reason aside from "nicer syntax" (which is also very subjective and debatable; I for one like iptables syntax better).

    The changes from iptables to nftables are evolutionary, not revolutionary. There's no "killer feature" that will win everyone over to nftables. But there are a lot of small changes that arguably make nftables better than iptables. Again, though, one is free to stay with iptables.

    Thanked by 1vimalware

    "Linux will run happily with only 4 MB of RAM, including all of the bells and whistles such as the X Window System, Emacs, and so on." (M. Welsh & L. Kaufman, Running Linux, 2e, 1996, p. 32)

  • rm_rm_ Member

    deadbeef said: The OS is built for the devs. Otherwise, there's other devs with other choices that make other OSs.

    Right, and I'm simply informing people that the other option that they have (i.e. iptables) is objectively a better one, all things considered. This is mostly an end-user, not a kernel developer forum after all.

  • NeoonNeoon Member
    edited June 2017

    Seems like the build is still in progress but you can already upgrade to 9 via apt-get

    Thanked by 2vimalware angstrom
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  • hm... proxmox dev is stretch based like some while ago..
    besides, ubuntu 17.04 (zesty) is also able to build using the deb utility to build LXC templates from config file (like an apt sources list), also proxmox patch is out to allow 17.04 versioning in templates..

  • gattyttogattytto Member
    edited June 2017

  • layfonlayfon Member

    vimalware said:
    Alright people: SEED some legit ISO https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-dvd/

    :D

    Calling KS-2E owners from recent promotion...

  • emreemre Member
    edited June 2017

    layfon said: vimalware said: Alright people: SEED some legit ISO https://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/current/amd64/bt-dvd/

    :D

    Calling KS-2E owners from recent promotion...

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