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NAT VPS, Why Should We Despise it ?
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NAT VPS, Why Should We Despise it ?

Apart from the shared IP and complicated Port Forwarding. Why would people despise NAT VPS ? It has very low great Price.

I myself am looking for a NAT VPS. I only know Quadhost (they suffer a lot of problem lately) / LES. Any other provider offer NAT VPS, preferably in Asian.

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Comments

  • vmhausvmhaus Member, Top Host, Host Rep

    Why get a NAT VPS when you could get a KVM IPv4 for a low price? :D

  • yokowasisyokowasis Member
    edited June 2017

    Well, Nat VPS can cost $1-$3 / year. Never seen Openvz let Alone KVM cost that low.

    @vmhaus said:
    Why get a NAT VPS when you could get a KVM IPv4 for a low price? :D

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    yokowasis said: I myself am looking for a NAT VPS. I only know Quadhost (they suffer a lot of problem lately) / LES. Any other provider offer NAT VPS, preferably in Asian.

    We are planning to do HK based NAT VPS. Been saying this for a while, a long with restocking our FREE VPS (this is NOT sarcasm!). Just haven't gotten around to it.

    For super low end machines, I think NAT VPS can be useful. But I fail to see much, if any benefit at all if that VPS cost anything more than $5/month. In most of Europe and USA, IPs cost $1-$2 (it's higher from most Asian hosts) so once you start getting over $5 /month, you gotta be one super cheap skate for not forking out that extra $2 for an IPv4 address.

    Although IP prices may continue to rise while bandwidth and hardware will probably fall. So in NAT VPS may become extremely cheap without having the burden of adding an IP address.

    What's your budget for the Asian NAT VPS?

  • vmhausvmhaus Member, Top Host, Host Rep

    @yokowasis said:
    Well, Nat VPS can cost $1-$3 / year. Never seen Openvz let Alone KVM cost that low.

    @vmhaus said:
    Why get a NAT VPS when you could get a KVM IPv4 for a low price? :D

    Sorry, i didn't realize it was that cheap. Yeah, 1x ipv4 alone costs at least $2/Year.

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep

    vmhaus said: Sorry, i didn't realize it was that cheap. Yeah, 1x ipv4 alone costs at least $2/Year.

    What? Where? I'd take a /22 for $2 /yr per IP!

    yokowasis said: Well, Nat VPS can cost $1-$3 / year.

    How is that even possible?

    If you assume you have a E3-12xxv6 with 64GB RAM, and a single normal disk, it would probably cost around US$800 to buy and have power running cost of $15 /month.

    Let's assume you are running this under your desk at home (because colo is too expensive) and you're running this is on a 100Mbit broadband that cost you $40 /month.

    So you have a $55 /month operating cost.

    You take your 64GB RAM, and you oversell the crap out of it! In order to break even over a period of say 2 years (you gotta recoup the hardware right?) you need to make at least US$1,060 /year (that's break even only!) If you accept Paypal as payment, remember that your $3 /year actually only gets you $2.5 (after fees), so you need 424 clients at $3 /year just to break even.

    Given only 64GB RAM you could only give people around 128MB RAM, which means you would need to oversell 2 - 4 times to make the RAM look reasonable, or actually even be useful, since just about everything uses over 100MB RAM these days.

    Network wise, you would have to hope your 100Mbit line can actually handle 100Mbit, and hope your clients will on average use less than 240kbit/s each.

    And that's just to break even.

  • Don't ask me, ask the guy at LES.

    @randvegeta said:

    vmhaus said: Sorry, i didn't realize it was that cheap. Yeah, 1x ipv4 alone costs at least $2/Year.

    What? Where? I'd take a /22 for $2 /yr per IP!

    yokowasis said: Well, Nat VPS can cost $1-$3 / year.

    How is that even possible?

    If you assume you have a E3-12xxv6 with 64GB RAM, and a single normal disk, it would probably cost around US$800 to buy and have power running cost of $15 /month.

    Let's assume you are running this under your desk at home (because colo is too expensive) and you're running this is on a 100Mbit broadband that cost you $40 /month.

    So you have a $55 /month operating cost.

    You take your 64GB RAM, and you oversell the crap out of it! In order to break even over a period of say 2 years (you gotta recoup the hardware right?) you need to make at least US$1,060 /year (that's break even only!) If you accept Paypal as payment, remember that your $3 /year actually only gets you $2.5 (after fees), so you need 424 clients at $3 /year just to break even.

    Given only 64GB RAM you could only give people around 128MB RAM, which means you would need to oversell 2 - 4 times to make the RAM look reasonable, or actually even be useful, since just about everything uses over 100MB RAM these days.

    Network wise, you would have to hope your 100Mbit line can actually handle 100Mbit, and hope your clients will on average use less than 240kbit/s each.

    And that's just to break even.

  • @randvegeta said:

    yokowasis said: I myself am looking for a NAT VPS. I only know Quadhost (they suffer a lot of problem lately) / LES. Any other provider offer NAT VPS, preferably in Asian.

    We are planning to do HK based NAT VPS. Been saying this for a while, a long with restocking our FREE VPS (this is NOT sarcasm!). Just haven't gotten around to it.

    For super low end machines, I think NAT VPS can be useful. But I fail to see much, if any benefit at all if that VPS cost anything more than $5/month. In most of Europe and USA, IPs cost $1-$2 (it's higher from most Asian hosts) so once you start getting over $5 /month, you gotta be one super cheap skate for not forking out that extra $2 for an IPv4 address.

    Although IP prices may continue to rise while bandwidth and hardware will probably fall. So in NAT VPS may become extremely cheap without having the burden of adding an IP address.

    What's your budget for the Asian NAT VPS?

    $10 / year

  • randvegetarandvegeta Member, Host Rep
    edited June 2017

    yokowasis said: $10 / year

    What would you expect for $10 /yr? (Assume Asia location)

  • mxvinmxvin Member

    I think you still can rely on Quadhost, they replied my fool questions yesterday :D. I assume they still monitor everything. As i-83.net said to me, the support level at i-83 and Quadhost are different.

  • @mxvin said:
    I think you still can rely on Quadhost, they replied my fool questions yesterday :D. I assume they still monitor everything. As i-83.net said to me, the support level at i-83 and Quadhost are different.

    I wouldnt

    Thanked by 1brueggus
  • @randvegeta said:

    yokowasis said: $10 / year

    What would you expect for $10 /yr? (Assume Asia location)

    256MB RAM / 256 Swap
    10GB SSD

  • bersybersy Member
    edited June 2017

    yokowasis said: Well, Nat VPS can cost $1-$3 / year. Never seen Openvz let Alone KVM cost that low.

    VirMach used to make special offers like KVM for $5/yr. That's the cheapest IPv4 KVM one I know.

    Thanked by 1mxvin
  • A lot of people must hate them. They are regularly attacked by ddos.

    @mxvin said:
    I think you still can rely on Quadhost, they replied my fool questions yesterday :D. I assume they still monitor everything. As i-83.net said to me, the support level at i-83 and Quadhost are different.

  • bersybersy Member

    yokowasis said: A lot of people must hate them. They are regularly attacked by ddos.

    Exactly, you have just sounded one of the main disadvantages of all NAT VMs.

  • mxvinmxvin Member

    Alright guys easy, okay :D LOL

  • yokowasisyokowasis Member
    edited June 2017

    Isn't that the disadvantages of basically anything. Even with normal vps. If the node is getting ddosed and can't handle it, doesn't it mean all of the vps in that specific node going down ? doesn't matter what the IP is. CMIIW.

    @bersy said:

    yokowasis said: A lot of people must hate them. They are regularly attacked by ddos.

    Exactly, you have just sounded one of the main disadvantages of all NAT VMs.

  • @yokowasis said:
    Apart from the shared IP and complicated Port Forwarding. Why would people despise NAT VPS ? It has very low great Price.

    I myself am looking for a NAT VPS. I only know Quadhost (they suffer a lot of problem lately) / LES. Any other provider offer NAT VPS, preferably in Asian.

    The real question: Do people despise NAT VPSes in the first place?

  • YmpkerYmpker Member

    Check out http://lowendstock.com :-)

  • yokowasis said: Don't ask me, ask the guy at LES.
    yokowasis said: yokowasis said: Well, Nat VPS can cost $1-$3 / year.
    How is that even possible?

    GBP3/year is not $1-$3/year

  • @yokowasis said:
    Isn't that the disadvantages of basically anything. Even with normal vps. If the node is getting ddosed and can't handle it, doesn't it mean all of the vps in that specific node going down ? doesn't matter what the IP is. CMIIW.

    Why would anyone need to know node's IP and why would it even need one?
    And if one of the users gets DDOS his IP will be nullrouted and the node will be perfectly fine. Or am i missing something?

  • So basically in normal VPS, if 1 user get DDosed, other user / the provider doesn't affected at all ?

    @Gamma17 said:

    @yokowasis said:
    Isn't that the disadvantages of basically anything. Even with normal vps. If the node is getting ddosed and can't handle it, doesn't it mean all of the vps in that specific node going down ? doesn't matter what the IP is. CMIIW.

    Why would anyone need to know node's IP and why would it even need one?
    And if one of the users gets DDOS his IP will be nullrouted and the node will be perfectly fine. Or am i missing something?

  • mxvinmxvin Member

    @Gamma17 said:

    @yokowasis said:

    Why would anyone need to know node's IP and why would it even need one?
    And if one of the users gets DDOS his IP will be nullrouted and the node will be perfectly fine. Or am i missing something?

    i think, thats might be true. but if attack sent through gateway(the NAT), all node using these router will affected. ??
    Interesting topic, need someone to explain it better.

  • Gamma17Gamma17 Member
    edited June 2017

    @yokowasis said:
    So basically in normal VPS, if 1 user get DDosed, other user / the provider doesn't affected at all ?

    That obviously depends on the attack itsef, but it will be MUCH harder to cause issues for provider's network hardware than for single node.

    @mxvin said:
    i think, thats might be true. but if attack sent through gateway(the NAT), all node using these router will affected. ??
    Interesting topic, need someone to explain it better.

    Router in this case is the node itself, and ip that is given to users is node's IP. Which is then publicly known and obviously cannot be just nullrouted without making the node and its contents unavailable.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider
    edited June 2017

    LES has been running for about 4 years now, I started the project as a low cost non profit experiment funded by Inception Hosting, it did not run on modern hardware on launch, it ran on an x3220 with 8gb ram and a single Sata.

    It's main purpose was not to be a NAT VPS it was supposed to be a native IPv6 vps with complimentary IPv4 for initial setup and 20 ports forwarded to work around any IPv6 only problems.

    The whole thing grew much faster than I ever could have imagined so it expanded from just the Netherlands to the uk, Italy, Dallas, Singapore, Japan and Phoenix.

    Obviously with that the hardware had to be upgraded to cope with the volumes and eventually some locations just got 'slabbed' within my own infrastructure.

    It has never been a profit driven model it comes with no direct support, only the forums at http://forum.lowendspirit.com which is a pretty active community.

    The problem that came after is a lot of people then tried to run similar things as a business model and quickly collapsed.

    Some locations have closed such as Singapore due to leaseweb being beyond believe usless and Dallas closed when cloudshards went bankrupt.

    The KVM version of the service suffered when Singapore closed and now only the Netherlands remains which is double the price.

    I have always been pretty transparent about what LES is, it's history and it's futures, so in my opinion you SHOULD despise NAT vps servers when they are being run as a primary business model.

    If however you want a little low cost as in a bag of chips vps for a whole year that you don't expect perfect performance, it can do almost anything a regular vps of similar specs can do except host an IPv4 name or mail server then it is ideal.

    Hell someone just made a CDN from a collection of them, other people use it to host sites in 6 locations at once with geodns, essentially you can use it to stage high availability applications for next to nothing.

    If anyone has any how the hell or why the hell questions I am happy to answer them from my perspective.

    Edit: iPad auto correct is great..

    Thanked by 4mxvin saf31 ashkulz bersy
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider
    edited June 2017

    randvegeta said: If you assume you have a E3-12xxv6 with 64GB RAM

    Now let's assume you allocate only 2 - 4 cores, its and E5 and 16GB ram from it. :)

  • cochoncochon Member

    @wwabbit said: GBP3/year is not $1-$3/year

    It will be soon :-)

  • kaflokaflo Member

    Who's despising it?

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    randvegeta said: If you assume you have a E3-12xxv6 with 64GB RAM

    Now let's assume you allocate only 2 - 4 cores, its and E5 and 16GB ram from it. :)

    Now we're getting somewhere!

  • AnthonySmith said: Now let's assume you allocate only 2 - 4 cores, its and E5 and 16GB ram from it. :)

    16GB RAM on even a single E5 is waste of a nice CPU.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Member, Patron Provider

    William said: 16GB RAM on even a single E5 is waste of a nice CPU.

    Yep, like I just said, they are slabbed into my own infrastructure, hence the 2 - 4 cores.

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