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Clarity of Reality
vRozenSch00n
Member
What has been done cannot be undone. At least that's what I know, well said in many literatures.
However, at some point should what has been done causing damage, at least we can try to fix it.
As a friend of LEA, I'm posting this just to clarify some unclear issue related to LEA's good name, without any bad intention to anybody or whoever own or run this great forum.
@jbiloh and @Liam, I hope my post would be a remedy to some who still have negative thought about ColoCrossing so LEB and LET can move on smoothly without leaving any uneasiness or awkwardness behind.
I just want to emphasize based on LEA's post that "He never sold LEB/LET, but he giveaway to someone that he thought would be capable to manage the sites"
I believe when Chief encountered some problems running LEB/LET he didn't want to endure the long and winding road, instead he had chosen the easier path to sell it to the highest bidder, and @jbiloh is the one who took the initiative to spend quite an amount of money to save and ensure the continuity of LEB/LET.
Life goes on and we have to move on. I hope all LEB/LET community members can continue to read or post without any grudge, so this community can grow and make a better people out of us.
Sincerely,
vRozenSch00n
Comments
As a long time member i'd say the real problem is not the ownership, but quality of posts and contributors. LEB and LET started as a technical board where exchange suggestions and hints about running and optimizing a server on a small VPS.
Scripts were well written and LEA gave great suggestions. Many of the contributors had a really long time experience managing servers and unix systems. In the last few years this has become a place where even some 'providers' can't use vi to edit a file, and most users are just kids looking for a script to install a vpn to pirate movies.
So real problem imho is not cc being the new owner, but the technical level of this board. Even Linode forums have a clear ownership, but posts there a often valuable.
I do hope the money colocrossing invested here will help rise again the quality level of this board, so i welcome new rules and their greater involvement here. But sincerely i think LET and LEB died well before LEA leaved.
True
That's another problem @Liam has to deal with
@marrco i think the negative points you mention are a direct consequence of Joel's/CC's ownership of LEB.
When LEA was running the site he didn't care about money, ergo he didn't need many viewers to generate ad revenue.
Now with LEB being run for profit the site needs more ad views. You can generate more hits by being a community for noobs that everyone can join instead of being a small community of technology enthusiasts.
It can be both if there was less flaming, trolling and hate.
Good to see you @sleddog. I remember your script contribution, remote camera, and script testing result.
The problem is that alot of the people who were involved and were technology enthusiests are just not that into it anymore. They got bored answering the same questions a thousand times. Once you get the server down to using less than 32mb of memory then what? Where do you go? What else is there to do? There was a need for new blood. There was a need for different topics. It may change what you were used to but it kept it alive.
nope, negative points i mention are one of the reason why LEA left.
that's the problem, many older guys here just don't care teaching the same thing to uneducated noobs for free. One think is peer exchange, when you discuss with other person that know as much (or even more) than you do. An other is being part of a drama with children with no real experience that accept no RTFM answer to their silly questions. And sometimes these children call themselves "providers".
LEB/LET became important and gained respect for the quality of LEA posts and the contribution of many smart guys.
LET lost its appeal when most of the experienced guy (with 10+ years in IT as a $dayjob) left because a budget vps server become a cheap box to use for pirating movies, and let become a place where noobs asked for a pre-made script. That started before LEA left, i'd say even before v2
Please look at how few are the guys that now provide even little fragments of original code, small BASH scripts or other original technical suggestions. And you will understand the problem. LET is dead, and uneducated noobs killed it.
This.
And of course I'm no offender /Ahem any ways I should mention that I saw a minor percentage of the end of that time...And I frequently dive back into the history of threads from users like you who started some great conversations just to learn and read some of that past
I honestly hope some of the other users here providers or not are taking the time to do that
That being said there were other aspects of that "old" age that I wouldn't miss. Many threads and replies are tinged with ugly wafts of racism. I'm sorry I see it a lot when I read. And not from you Just in general from the community. I think there are a lot of things like that perhaps you might find mirrored in the progression of humanity.
Another example: Conversations were often so calm and collected there seemed to be some hesitation in
responses, and creativity if I may be so bold. The idea of developers and perhaps even providers casually exchanging one position of knowledge and stature for the greater good of a community and acknowledging a greater intelligence is really fading IMHO. Every one i realizing that with enough time spent on a machine they can learn to do any thing, so your summer hosts and all of that are only going to increase. Throw money and the need to be entertained into that and, well, I just don't think the current "state" of any thing should surprise.
But eventually complaining about the state of these forums really gets old, And since I know I can't control my temperament,
I am at least trying to spend SOME amount of time offering some thing back. Hopefully the threads like this dredging up continuously the same general topic again and again will end in a reunion between you guys..
And some beers. My two.
No it really can't. You can see this everywhere. Once a community grows too big and more and more noobs start coming, many of the power uses will move on.
Well it is natural that “Birds of the same feather flock together.”
They also leave every winter (like people going to another forum) and return in the summer (probably a few weeks from now).
>
If I may, it really is a pleasure to read back into the history of LET and learn some thing. I can truly say a +1 for the forums.
Exactly. When one feels comfortable in one place one won't leave. When it's to hot or to cold one may leave temporarily to be back when things getting back into a comfortable zone.
No, it's worse. Most users are just hosts with business depending mostly from LEB/LET sales and this force them into constant circlejerking under pretence that they are here because of community. It's not even that much about quality than making cool impression. Things went so far that people often confuse cool impression about someone with quality of service. Rubbish!
This new (last 2 years - or even more?) LEB community (I am saying LEB instead LET with a purpose! Those few older members will understand...) is something completely different. It's about coupons, special deals, promotions and again... coupons. Most people here now don't have clue how user friendly and good this community was... so those few older still here don't have much options. Either go away or deal with it. Once business became main priority things won't change to bett.. so it is what it is and well... maybe we will get some "good deal" tomorrow? ... (or there's still something more?)
(That's not bitching, I accepted LET - the way it is).
And in time some the noobs will grow to be power users. It's a simple evolution that could happen if the LET environment was healthy and helpful.
While I own a business, I make it a point to give back to the community. That's why I release a lot of my code and solutions to people no questions asked. I ask my staff to try to do the same...
I have a love for servers and web hosting in general and LET is like my second home when it comes to talking to people about the things I enjoy...
I actually didn't start my company to make money at it, it just kinda grew its way into that and I personally thank the community for giving me a chance.
@bluevm
I 2nd this. When LET was down for example, I honestly didn't have much to do, considering how much time I spend here.
I am trying to do more to give back. Hopefully with openvztemplate.com I can start that and more in the future.
@Fliphost You actually did it, the openvztemplate.com I mean. I remember when it was still a plan.
Ah, nice! Looking good!
@Fliphost my iphone approves
i think we should start back from here:
and add more points to that list. No more hosts that started-failed-sold-restarted-failed-again-restarted, no more kids that call themselves companies or corporations, no more mixing serious providers with summer hosts. Let's stop with useless offers, let's stop domain offers. LEB is the marketplace where providers can post their offers, and specify who they really are, if they own their hardware, if they are a real company that invested money to stay in the market or just a kid profiting from a first-month free server offer.
And let's transform LET in a technical board, where no selling or trolling is allowed.
It has become embarassing reading about kids screaming becouse they could not discuss their problems on the phone with the owner of OVH or telling that Linode is crap and their network is better.
and most important, i think we should bring back drmike!
(and since most ppl here loves the drama and conspiration theories: http://lowendtalk.com/discussion/2 "July 2011 DDoS Discussion" last comment on first page was "... Colocrossing has a great DDoS protection")
Ha,ha. And both Damian's from UK? On a serious note, it would be very hard for someone like drmike to "survive" in this "new" enviroment which require thick skin...