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Can't we even raised PayPal dispute?
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Can't we even raised PayPal dispute?

As title, why can't we raised a dispute on PayPal for non delivery after say 12 days despite raising multiple support tickets?

And in the end being added in the fraud record.

Comments

  • MaouniqueMaounique Member
    edited February 2017

    You can even after much less than 12 days.
    Adding to fraud record is a shitty move too, but only if you asked for a refund before and the host didn't own it.

    Extremist conservative user, I wish to preserve human and civil rights, free speech, freedom of the press and worship, rule of law, democracy, peace and prosperity, social mobility, etc. Now you can draw your guns.

  • LetisbestLetisbest Member
    edited February 2017

    @Maounique said:
    You can even after much less than 12 days.
    Adding to fraud record is a shitty move too, but only if you asked for a refund before and the host didn't own it.

    Yes I was added in the fraud record even after closing the dispute on PayPal whereby the issue has been resolved with the vendor.

  • NekkiNekki Moderator

    Nothing wrong with raising a Paypal dispute if you've tried to work things out with a provider and given them a reasonable amount of time to figure things out.

    Name and shame.

    Thanked by 2Clouvider Maounique

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • jarjar Provider

    @Letisbest said:

    @Maounique said:
    You can even after much less than 12 days.
    Adding to fraud record is a shitty move too, but only if you asked for a refund before and the host didn't own it.

    Yes I was added in the fraud record even after closing the dispute on PayPal whereby the issue has been resolved with the vendor.

    12 days no delivery and took dispute to resolve? I'd guess that no one takes their fraudrecord report seriously. I ignore fraudrecord reports constantly based on who filed them.

    Thanked by 2vimalware Maounique
  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited February 2017

    Letisbest said: As title, why can't we raised a dispute on PayPal for non delivery after say 12 days despite raising multiple support tickets?

    And in the end being added in the fraud record.

    Hi, do you think it is possible to give any less specific information, or was this designed to be a 2 line rant that everyone ignores?

    If it was not supposed to be a rant then my guess is that it was delivered, you forgot your root password and refused to reset it yourself, considered that none delivery so you filed a 'received damaged goods claim'?

    Am I close?

  • @jarland said:

    @Letisbest said:

    @Maounique said:
    You can even after much less than 12 days.
    Adding to fraud record is a shitty move too, but only if you asked for a refund before and the host didn't own it.

    Yes I was added in the fraud record even after closing the dispute on PayPal whereby the issue has been resolved with the vendor.

    12 days no delivery and took dispute to resolve? I'd guess that no one takes their fraudrecord report seriously. I ignore fraudrecord reports constantly based on who filed them.

    It amazes me some of the crap on FR. I can think of one provider whose name begins with D who has a record for just about everyone 'paid invoice a day late' 'opened more than 1 ticket each month' 'used nearly all of his bandwidth allocation'.

    Thanked by 2jar Maounique

    VortexNode.com
    Affordable & Reliable Hosting - Shared, Reseller, VPS & Dedicated Servers

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited February 2017

    VortexMagnus said: It amazes me some of the crap on FR. I can think of one provider whose name begins with D who has a record for just about everyone 'paid invoice a day late' 'opened more than 1 ticket each month' 'used nearly all of his bandwidth allocation'.

    I used to post those as a public shaming exercise to try and get hosts to stop doing that sort of crap, it was designed to weed about actual service abusers and fraudsters, not to let everyone know how that particular transaction went.

    I soon gave up and when I concluded that you cant change stupid.

    Thanked by 1VortexMagnus
  • >

    'used nearly all of his bandwidth allocation'.

    Jesus.

    Full name please so people can avoid a provider that shames users who actually use the resources they bought.

    Thanked by 1geekalot

    I like my uptime down low and my servers all hacked. Can see me droppin' twenty-fours with a router in the rack.
    Ya like ya Switch-Ports hot and ya servers all hacked. If ya pings real high and ya networks pitch black.

  • teamacc said: Full name please so people can avoid a provider that shames users who actually use the resources they bought.

    If only it was just 1 name :)

    Thanked by 1geekalot
  • @VortexMagnus said:
    one provider whose name begins with D who has a record for just about everyone

    MAGNUS, DID I WIN? DID I WIN?? OMG

    Thanked by 1AnthonySmith
  • VortexMagnusVortexMagnus Member
    edited February 2017

    @teamacc said:

    >

    'used nearly all of his bandwidth allocation'.

    Jesus.

    Full name please so people can avoid a provider that shames users who actually use the resources they bought.

    Just use a process of Delimination.

    @Yura said:

    @VortexMagnus said:
    one provider whose name begins with D who has a record for just about everyone

    MAGNUS, DID I WIN? DID I WIN?? OMG

    No.

    VortexNode.com
    Affordable & Reliable Hosting - Shared, Reseller, VPS & Dedicated Servers

  • YuraYura Member
    edited February 2017

    Delete my answer then, if there is a limit for one error only.

    :/

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited February 2017

    I saw one so bad the other day from a host that I had to let the customer know so they knew to ask for it to be removed, it was so stupid.

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    Letisbest said: As title, why can't we raised a dispute on PayPal for non delivery after say 12 days despite raising multiple support tickets?

    And in the end being added in the fraud record.

    Hi, do you think it is possible to give any less specific information, or was this designed to be a 2 line rant that everyone ignores?

    If it was not supposed to be a rant then my guess is that it was delivered, you forgot your root password and refused to reset it yourself, considered that none delivery so you filed a 'received damaged goods claim'?

    Am I close?

    Is a cheap nat vps.

    Ranting?...Nope.. Even if I am, it couldn't be worst than the provider which placed customers under fraud record despite the dispute being closed and settled at paypal?

    You working for the company?

  • @Letisbest said:
    You working for the company?

    Yeah. @AnthonySmith works for #5/hr coding PHP.

    Thanked by 1johnnymatt

    I won't be back until @bsdguy is released.

  • @WSS said:

    @Letisbest said:
    You working for the company?

    Yeah. @AnthonySmith works for #5/hr coding PHP.

    Oh I see.
    Btw I found this by chance over at wht.

    This place is good.

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    VortexMagnus said: It amazes me some of the crap on FR. I can think of one provider whose name begins with D who has a record for just about everyone 'paid invoice a day late' 'opened more than 1 ticket each month' 'used nearly all of his bandwidth allocation'.

    I used to post those as a public shaming exercise to try and get hosts to stop doing that sort of crap, it was designed to weed about actual service abusers and fraudsters, not to let everyone know how that particular transaction went.

    I soon gave up and when I concluded that you cant change stupid.

    I guess you point it out correctly.
    Have nice day mate

  • WSS said: Yeah. @AnthonySmith works for #5/hr coding PHP.

    haha that was taken as literal!

    Letisbest said: Is a cheap nat vps.

    Ranting?...Nope.. Even if I am, it couldn't be worst than the provider which placed customers under fraud record despite the dispute being closed and settled at paypal?

    You working for the company?

    No I run Inception Hosting Ltd, have done for 7 years, I was simply commenting that it is amazing how many people come here to complain without giving any detail at all.

    In most cases this results in the OP making a complete fool of themselves, not saying that will happen here, but that is how it usually goes.

    So about those details...

    Which company?

    Screenshots of the inactive VPS showing 'pending' in the billing system?

    Fraudrecord link?

    How did you open the dispute, i.e. what category?

    What were the hosts responses?

    I ask this because it is about the only things that will validate your thread and in my experience it is usually the people who don't want to volunteer the truth that are in the wrong.

    Or feel free to ignore all of this......

    Thanked by 1JasperNL
  • @AnthonySmith said:
    Or feel free to ignore all of this......

    I like pie.

    I won't be back until @bsdguy is released.

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    WSS said: Yeah. @AnthonySmith works for #5/hr coding PHP.

    haha that was taken as literal!

    Letisbest said: Is a cheap nat vps.

    Ranting?...Nope.. Even if I am, it couldn't be worst than the provider which placed customers under fraud record despite the dispute being closed and settled at paypal?

    You working for the company?

    No I run Inception Hosting Ltd, have done for 7 years, I was simply commenting that it is amazing how many people come here to complain without giving any detail at all.

    In most cases this results in the OP making a complete fool of themselves, not saying that will happen here, but that is how it usually goes.

    So about those details...

    Which company?

    Screenshots of the inactive VPS showing 'pending' in the billing system?

    Fraudrecord link?

    How did you open the dispute, i.e. what category?

    What were the hosts responses?

    I ask this because it is about the only things that will validate your thread and in my experience it is usually the people who don't want to volunteer the truth that are in the wrong.

    Or feel free to ignore all of this......

    I am not at all embarass for not providing the more details than it is needed.

    In any case I am not expecting any responses from your company. Or such incidents are pretty common in your company as well? If it is I will take note.. Once beaten twice shy.

  • @Letisbest said:

    @AnthonySmith said:

    WSS said: Yeah. @AnthonySmith works for #5/hr coding PHP.

    haha that was taken as literal!

    Letisbest said: Is a cheap nat vps.

    Ranting?...Nope.. Even if I am, it couldn't be worst than the provider which placed customers under fraud record despite the dispute being closed and settled at paypal?

    You working for the company?

    No I run Inception Hosting Ltd, have done for 7 years, I was simply commenting that it is amazing how many people come here to complain without giving any detail at all.

    In most cases this results in the OP making a complete fool of themselves, not saying that will happen here, but that is how it usually goes.

    So about those details...

    Which company?

    Screenshots of the inactive VPS showing 'pending' in the billing system?

    Fraudrecord link?

    How did you open the dispute, i.e. what category?

    What were the hosts responses?

    I ask this because it is about the only things that will validate your thread and in my experience it is usually the people who don't want to volunteer the truth that are in the wrong.

    Or feel free to ignore all of this......

    I am not at all embarass for not providing the more details than it is needed.

    In any case I am not expecting any responses from your company. Or such incidents are pretty common in your company as well? If it is I will take note.. Once beaten twice shy.

    Bit rude to do that isn't it? Not sure why you're assuming that his company's often having fraud issues, when he was simply requesting information that proves what you said, and to raise awareness for the rest of us to that particular company.

    VortexNode Any questions, just shoot.

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited February 2017

    Letisbest said: In any case I am not expecting any responses from your company. Or such incidents are pretty common in your company as well? If it is I will take note.. Once beaten twice shy.

    No, I actually make a point of shaming other hosts for using it incorrectly.

    OK I will answer the main question in the same manner as you then.

    Letisbest said: why can't we raised a dispute on PayPal for non delivery after say 12 days despite raising multiple support tickets?

    You can.

    Hosts can also add you to fraudrecord if you do.

    I don't know who you bought from but I run LES which includes DeepNet/Inception/RansomIT/MSP so there is no chance you bought from one of those hosts as they all make it very clear that support is only given via the forum, there are no LES forum posts that match this issue.

    It is not i-83 because you said they resolved your issue in another thread, the other NAT host started selling less than 12 days ago, so I have no idea who this could be.

    The devil is in the details which is why they are not being shared and seem to be on the attack rather than being human.

    /thread because context is apparently overrated.

  • @Letisbest said:

    In any case I am not expecting any responses from your company. Or such incidents are pretty common in your company as well? If it is I will take note.. Once **beaten **twice shy.

    Bitten*

  • MrKaruppuMrKaruppu Member
    edited February 2017

    Letisbest said: Or such incidents are pretty common in your company as well? If it is I will take note.. Once beaten twice shy.

    @AnthonySmith is trying to help other forum members. May I know what's stopping you from sharing your provider name and relevant screenshots?

  • @VortexMagnus You seem to be a respected provider, but have you ever threatened anyone with a fraud record?

  • Somebody should nuke FraudRecord with a big lawsuit, assuming you are being added without any justification that falls under Fraud.

  • MrKaruppuMrKaruppu Member
    edited February 2017

    Hxxx said: Somebody should nuke FraudRecord with a big lawsuit

    I think it's a problem with providers who add customers into FraudRecord for outlandish reasons whilst I do agree that FraudRecord should have some mechanism to prevent legitimate customers from being added.

    May be a check for reason of adding periodically would help.

  • ricardoricardo Member
    edited February 2017

    FraudRecord is a pain in the arse.

    I have a listing from 3 years ago. I've bought from about 200 hosting providers since. One refused me service this week, based on what he saw of the old listing (which is inaccurate).

    I applied to have the listing removed 2 days ago and not a peep. There isn't even a formal system for getting things removed, and they allude to the fact they confer with the listing creator (what's the incentive for them to remove anything?)

    Wouldn't go as far as a lawsuit, but if it happens a few more times I'd certainly get a solicitor to send a friendly email over to them.

  • I think fraud record can be great, the problem is there is no accountability built in to it and very little process.

    I think it has had its day, I might look in to getting an alternative made with an actual appeal system and a notification system for 'logged' accounts.

  • WebProjectWebProject Member, Provider

    jarland said: I'd guess that no one takes their fraudrecord report seriously.

    you need to use common sense to use fraudrecord or any other methods of verification of order, some reports are true and genuine, we do report true fraud as some of our new "customer" tried to use 3 - 4 different credit cards and due to the issue that the cards have been reported stolen different banks decline all attempts.

    VPS Price Match Guarantee on: All our range of DDOS protected XEN-HVM VPS Plans
    Are you looking for best price for self-managed VPS? See WebProVPS website for more details.
  • @Freelancenerds said:
    @VortexMagnus You seem to be a respected provider, but have you ever threatened anyone with a fraud record?

    I think we've told clients straight that we have reported them to anti-fraud bureau's or similar if they've launched PayPal disputes because we didn't install their illegal Windows ISO's for them or similar.

    But I'm certain we have never said 'Oi, we will report you to FraudRecord if you do that'.

    VortexNode.com
    Affordable & Reliable Hosting - Shared, Reseller, VPS & Dedicated Servers

  • Is there no one that monitors Fraud Record?

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited February 2017

    sin said: Is there no one that monitors Fraud Record?

    no, well sort of, but the guy maintains and runs it for free so I don't blame him for only responding once in a bluemoon, the bigger problem is he wont let us hosts pay for the service for some bizarre reason.

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    I think fraud record can be great, the problem is there is no accountability built in to it and very little process.

    Is there any sort of reputation system built in? For example you're seeing all these ridiculous entries, is it possible for you to flag them so other providers not familiar with Tenacious D will see they submit 90% bullshit?

  • @Ree nope.

  • @AnthonySmith said:
    @Ree nope.

    Doesn't FR form a judgement of providers and the validity of their reports by scoring them?

    VortexNode.com
    Affordable & Reliable Hosting - Shared, Reseller, VPS & Dedicated Servers

  • VortexMagnus said: Doesn't FR form a judgement of providers and the validity of their reports by scoring them?

    Say that again but different please?

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    VortexMagnus said: Doesn't FR form a judgement of providers and the validity of their reports by scoring them?

    Say that again but different please?

    Haha, sorry.

    For providers, Fraud Record lists this for example:

    Reliability 1

    Which provides an overall reliability score?

    1.0

    out of possible 10

    In their own words:

    This is a measure of reliability, depending on the reporting members. It is NOT meant to be a measure of the validity of a report. Every new member of our team of reporting companies starts with a reliability of 1, and their reliability points increase over time, depending on many criteria. A reliability of 1 may mean a report by a new member, it does not necessarily mean that the report is inaccurate. Higher values, up to 10, mean the reporting members gained the trust of our system over time, and their reports are taken more seriously by our system.

    VortexNode.com
    Affordable & Reliable Hosting - Shared, Reseller, VPS & Dedicated Servers

  • @AnthonySmith said:

    VortexMagnus said: Doesn't FR form a judgement of providers and the validity of their reports by scoring them?

    Say that again but different please?

    Doesn't FR f*ck with customers and always listen to providers regardless of the validity?

  • AnthonySmithAnthonySmith Top Provider
    edited February 2017

    Ah ok yeah, I don't think the rep system was ever actually implemented though.

    edit, looks like it was, seems the maximum any individual host has is 1 and it is not automated so is entirely at the will of Harzem.

    example: https://www.fraudrecord.com/api/?showreport=d9ca61b93d04b54d

    This has a reliability of 7.5 with 13 x rep score = 1 reports... good stuff.

    That particular report has some great examples of what this is not supposed to be used for in the mix.

    edit 2, just checked 20 pages, every host, even those who have been using it since day 1 (me and a few others included) has a rep score of 1.0, so yeah, was a nice idea, it was never implemented fully it seems.

  • NekkiNekki Moderator

    I take it there's no sensible means of finding out if your email address is listed on FR? I've pretty much been a model customer (even if I do say so myself), so I'd be interested to see if I pop up on there.

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • Nekki said: I take it there's no sensible means of finding out if your email address is listed on FR? I've pretty much been a model customer (even if I do say so myself), so I'd be interested to see if I pop up on there.

    Your not listed, clean as a whistle!

  • NekkiNekki Moderator

    AnthonySmith said: Your not listed, clean as a whistle!

    TIGHT. Cheers for checking.

    Thanked by 1VortexMagnus

    Here lies Nekki. He loved massive amounts of storage, K-Pop and calling people cunts.

  • HarzemHarzem Member
    edited March 2017

    sin said: Is there no one that monitors Fraud Record?

    Not pro-actively, but when I get a request.

    AnthonySmith said: look in to getting an alternative made with an actual appeal system and a notification system for 'logged' accounts.

    I'm developing a new appeal system, based on "innocent until proven guilty" kind of idea, when a customer disputes a report. That is, when someone disputes a report, the report is automatically set to zero points, but still visible on report pages, and both sides will be able to explain their side of the issue (even link to a public discussion forum).

    AnthonySmith said: the bigger problem is he wont let us hosts pay for the service for some bizarre reason.

    There is the sponsorship option, which is exactly what you want :) But I realize the "all free" system isn't sustainable on the long term, so I'm adding many new incentives to sponsors soon, to encourage being a sponsor. Existing or new free accounts won't lose any functionality or be limited in any way though.

    doghouch said: Doesn't FR f*ck with customers and always listen to providers regardless of the validity?

    I've removed many many reports, on requests of customers. But mostly they are bullshit reasons. Last time, some guy asked to be removed, while he had 4 records from 4 different companies about the same issue.

    AnthonySmith said: Ah ok yeah, I don't think the rep system was ever actually implemented though.

    That's correct. I had let that slip, because I was hoping to develop it after hosts have created enough reports to get a rep point, but it got delayed again and again. I'm now developing a new reputation system, which is based on companies' report/query counts, as well as a "thumbs up/down" system on individual reports in which other companies can vote. The company with D can be voted down if everyone hates them so much.

    Nekki said: I take it there's no sensible means of finding out if your email address is listed on FR?

    You can register and make a query, but I'm now also developing a new "customer account" system where you can not only query your own data, but also set up monitors so you can be notified if you are reported.

    HarzemDesign and FraudRecord I have these. I have some new pre-made designs. Contact me if you are interested, they are half price.

  • Will just avoid these companies that has unfair terms and conditions.

  • @Harzem

    Until now my opinion on FR as excessively bad (based on what info I had). I'm still highly critical as there are many indications of FR operating in the shadows (seem from the concerned users) and utterly biased (or at will abusable by providers).

    What I just read here about your position, ideas, and plans, makes me think again, though.

    Sure enough, providers need some means of protecting themselves against fraudulent and criminal "customers" as well as against spammers, etc.
    At the same time, however, customers need to have their basic rights respected, too. I'm glad to see that you seem to work in that direction.

    Idea: Give marks to providers, too, so as to discern between "quick shooters" and serious, well reflected ones.

    Thanked by 1Hxxx

    My favourite prime number is 42. - \forall cpu in {intel, amd, arm}: cpu->speed -= cpu->speed/100 x irandom(15, 30) | state := hacked

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