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Store around 30TB x 2
Hi everyone. This is my first post 
We need to store 30TB in RAID (60TB) plus backup (I guess we need at least another 40TB)
Backups will be done with Borg so I guess 40TB to backup 30TB is a safe amount. Daily deduplicated backups for one week, one month snapshot and one year snapshot.
Around 15TB of data are archived data that will mostly not to be changed.
The other half are live projects and administrative docs that will be managed using Pydio.
We have been checking many dedicated providers and we are almost sure there is no single machine for renting that can supply this: 70TB in RAID, but we may be wrong.
Any ideas? If you have a different approach please share
Thanks in advance
Comments
i can do this in Romania, is this location ok for you ?
for exemple : hp proliant dl160 g6 2xl5620
25 x 4tb hdd sata 3
1 ipv4
30 tb traffic included /mo
price will be arrownd 4 eur/1tb/mo , if you pay quarently i can make 3 eur/tb , 6 month payment 2.70 eur/tb
you can choose from 4 different networks
You are right @cociu, I should have pointed out that we need the server in europe.
Maybe you can use raid-6 to save some drive space. @cociu any hw raid?
What RAID level ?
@Clouvider, we are comfortable with 0/1 level, but haven't experience with other levels like @willie suggest.
perfect , you have my price.
Cociu's offer sounds nice. There is also the Hetzner SX-291:
https://www.hetzner.de/hosting/produkte_rootserver/sx291
15x 6tb drives and hw raid, so you could use raid 6 with 3 parity drives and have 72tb of usable data space, or around 65 TiB.
There are also some high end OVH storage servers that end up costing a lot more than Cociu's server or Hetzner's, but that can hold up to 36 drives.
Normally at such levels you would look at NAS arrays, object store, Ceph, etc.
For long term low-access archiving, the OVH cloud archive and Online.net c14 products may be of interest. About 2 euro/TB for storage, plus additional .01/GB to get the data in or out. So it is only cost effective if you upload the data once and leave it unaccessed for many months at least. Good for backups since you expect to never access it at all after uploading. If something happens, then you pay the download cost to restore the data. c14 uses a large amount of redundancy for high reliability.
some lsi controller sata 3 its support up to raid 60 so no problem , the op can choose.
@cociu, could we go to 25 x 6tb with that server? we did not expect a custom setup like your offer and looks great.
if you wait some days yes , because i need to buy the hdd , i have only 10-15 of 6tb hdd right now here. But finnaly you will recive some new hdd in the rented dedi. the usual hdd here is up to 4 tb ....
@cociu and all, we are not in a hurry, this a big project and have to validate this with more people.
25x6tb looks great for medium/long term.
Nobody is suggesting a "divide and win" setup? e.g two 50TB servers. Is such a big system stable? bottlenecks? There will be less than 50 people using the system if it helps.
Thanks for your help!
i just send you a PM with our skype username
also i can atach in the future a fiber storage to this server to add more drives if is need , up to 4x48 hddx6tb/hdd
I'd think you'd want your backups on a separate box from the primary? RAID is a separate matter. It's not real clear what setup you're thinking of.
if its a big project i suggest you go with more established companies Hetzner, ovh, online, softlayer, linode, amazon just to name a few. you will need more hw technical support at initial setup/test for 3 months .. just my opinion.
OMG
Btw at least here, it seems worth calculating with 8tb and 10tb drives to see what works best. The drives cost more per TB but need less slots for the same amount of data.
I'm intrigued by Cociu's offer. He's been around for a while and knows how to run this stuff. I've been following storage offers obsessively for a year or so and AWS, Linode etc. don't come close to this. Hetzner is the main alternative I can think of.
I was quite surprised to read (if I'm correct) that you want your data & backup on the same machine. I generally follow the "rule of three": three different backups in three different locations. Now, the first two backups (daily and weekly/monthly) could be in the same DC but on different servers (usually bandwidth spent within the same DC isn't billed severely/at all) and the least recurring backup (monthly/yearly) goes to a completely different DC.
Yes, @n3storm you probably want to have a chat about requirements with your tech staff, if you haven't yet thought about backup configs, raid levels, etc.
if that is the case then the op's solution design can be in question.
2x hetzner sx131 should fit well. One setup as raid10 (=30TB) for production and one as raid6 (=40TB) for backup/storage purposes.
Borg is very effective with deduplication/compression. But keep in mind that backing up that large amount of data will require a lot of time.
You definitely want to have that done on/by another server to keep the impact to the production server low.
Most of you are right and I alse said it, we haven't dealed with such a big system before.
We have dealed distributed systems and have offsite backups but for all of our setups, this may be to big for us.
Also customer (as you all now) is not a huge company with a huge bill, so everything gets messy.
About Hetzner, Ovh and Online, which we now pretty well, they are big structures that cannot accomodate some projects. We already made consultations to them and for example, we asked Hetzner if we can use Flexipack + RAID 4 rack without RAID setup to get more capacity (temporaly) and they say no, and we asked if they can offer any alternative and they never answered back.
I understand why these companies work like that, so many workers, nodes, customers, etc, and I don't blame them. Some times your project doesn't fit in there.
That is why we "end"ed up here posting our question.
Thank you every one for your opinion and we will study @cociu proposal or any other that comes up in this thread.
n3storm, where are you located? You may want to work with a consultant if your organization doesn't have much knowledge about these sorts of things.
I don't understand what the issue was with Hetzner: they have storage servers in the SX series that are as large as almost anything you've asked for, plus they have the BX storage plans (10TB maximum but you can use more than one). I also don't understand why you want everything on one server, especially the backups but similarly for the other files. Do you really want an unmanaged server anyway? Other than storage, what else does your application need (cpu, ram, network, software)? Etc.
It's probably worth your while to sit down with someone who can completely understand your application and go over possible strategies with you.
he really need to rethink the solution design. not just hw support - one block thing. but more granular and consider local for daily backups.
https://www.hetzner.de/lt/hosting/produkte_rootserver/sx131
This server has 10 x 6 TB. With raid 6, you will have 8*6 = 48 TB. This is with software raid and 205 €/m
https://www.hetzner.de/lt/hosting/produkte_rootserver/sx291
This have 15 x 6 TB with hardware raid, 302 €/m
Online.net had also something with 12 x 4 TB with 220 $/m, but it is not avaliable at the moment: https://www.online.net/en/dedicated-server/dedibox-st48
I am not related to this firm or any other; just searched the internet..
Could we please stop the supersmart "use Raid xyz" and similar advice, until we know all relevant information?
What we can say so far is that production and backup should be on different servers.
What kind of raid is the best one for each depends on quite some factors we don't know (yet).
Also I'd suggest to be careful with rules like how exactly to structure the backup as this, too, depends on quite some factors, one of them being the budget (OP indicated it's within rather tight bounds).
As for the provider it seems evident: @cocius hostsolutions. a) He is known for attractive pricing, b) most well known companies do not offer the flexibility needed, @cociu however does.
@willie most your questions answer is: "budget constrains".
We are starting to check options. Maybe all backups should go to Online C14 or Blackblaze, which we don't prefer because of hidden costs restoring stuff. We don't know how many times this customer workers do wrong and we need to restore directories and how big those files are. This is not moving one system to another provider, or from inhouse to cloud. This is moving from different accounts for dropbox, google drive, cuddy, one note, small nas at one location, another server (desktop) in another location, to one organized and structured place (1 or several servers), 4 different locations plus roadwarriors.
We are trying to get to the lowest point and build up from there. Also we haven't made a full consultation to client yet.
For software, Pydio and file serving doesn't requiere too much (around 60 users, but less data). We have 4 years experience of Pydio and this is not an issue.
Hope it helps to understand our point of view. We are not in the decission making phase yet, we are exploring.
@n3storm since you have experince with pydio have you tried seafile? have you made any pydio sources to adapt your needs?