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OpenVZ or KVM? - Page 2
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OpenVZ or KVM?

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Comments

  • Nick_ANick_A Member, Top Host, Host Rep

    I would vote OpenVZ for a variety of factors.

    Thanked by 2netomx zhuanyi
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited October 2012

    Weighing in here with OpenVZ as well. I find that OpenVZ is actually easier to manage and better system administration practice at the same time because it's a little easier to observe usage patterns. That's just my opinion of it anyway.

    Thanked by 1zhuanyi
  • netomxnetomx Moderator, Veteran

    openVZ

    Thanked by 1zhuanyi
  • @zhuanyi Normally I would have said OpenVZ like many others, but considering how far KVM support has come in SolusVM I would say to go for KVM + SolusVM. I have submitted a bunch of bug reports to SolusVM, including the SWAP issue with gen. 2 templates and the network configuration not being run when a new VM was being created or re-installed. Solus Labs has fixed all of the above in version 1.13.01. It is not easy to get trough to them when you send in a bug report, and many others here probably know this, because their first assumption is that you did something wrong. However if you are persistent then they will listen.

    @Chief what would be your recommendations as far as I/O scheduler settings go for the host and guests if @zhuanyi decides to go with KVM?

    Thanked by 1zhuanyi
  • @rds100 said: If you mean windows, i would advise @zhuanyi to stay away from that sh*t. Sure, there is some market opportunity there, but the profit to trouble ratio is probably not very good.

    I agree with that, after reading all the stories about Windows, I think it is out of the picture for now.

  • @zhuanyi said: I was originally planning for Xen PV

    I'd say stick with your original plan.

    For hosting, Xen PV is great. And I think there's a bit of a market opportunity for lowend Xen in mid/east US.

    Otherwise go with KVM. OpenVZ providers are a dime a dozen.

    Thanked by 1zhuanyi
  • kvm

  • @sleddog said: Otherwise go with KVM. OpenVZ providers are a dime a dozen.

    Honestly that is why I initially chose XenPV over KVM and OVZ.

    Thanked by 1Amfy
  • Openvz so u can oversell

  • @zhuanyi We have tried to offer Windows on KVM, but the number of customers that will abuse it is just crazy. You will do fine with KVM, just keep in mind that on single quad core CPU you shouldn't assign 4 cores to any VM.

    @Randy ?

  • KVM or Xen

  • @zhuanyi said: I do not think the product is that stable yet...

    Have deployed it at multiple companies that hired me, rock-solid stable, the admins there are luving it too...

    @Zen said: Insanely stable, much more than SolusVM or any other relatively cheap commercial panel. There's a reason BuyVM roll Debian.

    +1

    @Zen said: No it does not, not sure how it would do that either from a back-end point of view. It runs both KVM and OpenVZ with the option for both.

    It has a debian linux kernel with the KVM and OpenVZ modules enabled at the same time. You can create OpenVZ and KVM containers/VMs and run them next to eachother. Also, it does HA/clustering fairly well.

  • @zhuanyi I would say that while Xen will perform nicely on a server like yours, just don't. CentOS 5 supports Xen but it is outdated, and for CentOS 6 you will have to put together or maintain your own packages, and you need more than one server so that you can do some testing before you deploy any changes or updates. I vote for KVM, but if you want an easy start with minimal expenses then I vote for OpenVZ. Customers will overlook the virtualization technology most of the time if you offer them good service, and on managed service they don't even care because they pay you to see results.

    I used to hold XenPV in high regards, and not to long ago I was even arguing with @miTgiB and others about how great and superior it is to other virtualization technologies. Since SolusVM support improved for KVM and I have learned more about it, I can honestly say that KVM is awesome, extremely flexible and very easy and convenient to use.

    @Randy I meant: please define overselling. Is it CPU, I/O or RAM? Because you can oversell any of those, more or less depending on the virtualization technology that you are using. With Xen you can oversell CPU and I/O extremely easy for example. All that matters is the final performance that the customer is getting. In theory, if he could oversell RAM 2:1 and the customer would still get good performance then who cares?

  • Every man and his dog does OpenVZ. What will you to to distinguish yourself?

    Other than the fact that you've got 6 months of costs paid in advance to get you going what will be your edge?

    Trying both systems may be technically more challenging but it gives you the chance to check out both types at the same time and see what types of customers are attracted to the different types and for what reasons, but I suspect those who prefer KVM will create lower support demands than OpenVZ. I'd say go for KVM initially and then go for OpenVZ if there are limits to the preference people have for it, which in my experience comes down to changing the password when you forget it, but nothing that can't be fixed with a recovery disk and chroot.

    Whatever the case may be maintaining a good reputation for honesty and reliability will be your best asset. Reliability will come with practice and experience but the honesty is down to the person you are.

  • Only hd and bw. ;-)

  • TazTaz Member
    edited October 2012

    Who cares about bandwidth overselling on leb? I have seen people selling 5times more than what they have while utilizing 10times less then what they have. On a rare occasion you will see legit users on Leb using tons of bandwidth.

    Thanked by 2marcm luxor
  • @Taz Customers always tend to overestimate their bandwidth needs. There are very few of those who actually use allot of bandwidth. Also, if you are running one or several web sites and you want to have a global presence then a CDN will come in handy.

  • TazTaz Member

    Yep. The biggest over estimate is everyone thinks they will become the next big thing online while only paying the lowest. Doesn't happen

    Thanked by 1marcm
  • @Taz said: Yep. The biggest over estimate is everyone thinks they will become the next big thing online while only paying the lowest. Doesn't happen

    Usually people that start with GoDaddy will work their way up trough every cheap, overcrowded - oversold - and low quality shared hosting provider until they eventually graduate to Linode (or God forbid Rackspace), and after they realize how much they are overpaying they end up with a smaller high quality hosting provider. But by then how much time, money, energy and frustration did they invest just to realize how wrong they where to begin with? I don't see people having a problem paying for their power bill, water, gas, heating, cell phone bill (this is the one that I hate the most), car note and so on, so why do they cheap out on hosting especially when their business and livelihood depends on it?

  • TazTaz Member

    What many people fails to realize is service is not free. It is the same with any or providing service. Graphics designer, developer coders etc. Only those who knows what service is will pay the right price. You can never overpay for service. Any and every service in this world has always been underpaid. From liquid web , linode to biggest graphics designer, doctors and such.

    Thanked by 1marcm
  • Additionally, there's a marked difference between overselling and keeping everything running smoothly, and overselling recklessly. All providers that advertise on LET oversell; what keeps a mob from setting things on fire is managing it properly.

    Thanked by 1Nick_A
  • @Damian That is pretty far from the truth. I only know a handful of the hosting providers around here, but they all provide really good service.

  • @marcm said: but they all provide really good service.

    Yes, because:

    @Damian said: managing it properly.

  • @Taz said: Who cares about bandwidth overselling on leb?

    Because it invites a clientele that are going to abuse resources other than bandwidth, primarily disk I/O.

    For web/email hosting, which is my primary use of a VPS, I'd much rather have an LEB with 100GB transfer than one with 1TB. While the abusers flock to the company offering 1TB, my low-transfer VPS performs nice & consistent....

    Thanked by 1zhuanyi
  • @Damian serverbear.com has allot of data on performance, and you can ask @serverbear as well. So I'd like to see some proof that providers around here are overselling. Thank you.

    Thanked by 1zhuanyi
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    I would vote xen if it was me. I recently had the dubious honour to install XCP on an atom (PV, of course) and it worked better than OVZ with proxmox.
    Sure, a pure OVZ will go best, but XCP offers the advantage of both lightweight PV and "full-machine" feeling of HVM while not compromising much on isolation and "mimic"-ing the "virtualized" machine that OVZ does. Xen is increasingly impopular but there are many ppl that still appreciate it and few hosts offer good Xen.
    XCP can be managed with hostbill, for example, it uses same xapi as XenServer.
    However, this is pretty far fetched, a tested and popular platform as OVZ or KVM managed by solus would probably be a good point to start.
    Remember Proxmox, while rock solid and with a nice interface, is not supported by whmcs without non-free modules, hostbill supports it tho, but it is not popular enough.
    I think plain OVZ is the first step together with the tools almost everyone uses, you wont be out in the cold when some weird bug strikes before you have the experience to track it down easily.
    M

    Thanked by 2marcm zhuanyi
  • The overselling statement annoys me, you can oversell CPU (hard), Bandwidth (easier), Disk IO (pretty easy), HDD (hard).

    A good host is one that knows how to balance the amount of customers on a node with stability & performance. Sure, there might be some overselling - but it won't be impacting the customers.

    Thanked by 3marcm Nick_A zhuanyi
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited October 2012

    I think only an experienced host can do overselling well. They know the proportion of big and small plans that work well on a a certain node and what big and small means proportional with the node's memory and IOPS capacity.
    They will also know what not to allow depending on their strenghts and weaknesses, the classic example is Tor nodes (non-exit) are forbidden on providers which have big bw oversell, other forbid torrents if they have both low IOPS and low BW, others forbid game-servers and irc if they have no DDoS protection as well as firefox and desktops in case of bad IOPS and CPU.
    You must know your weak and strong points, what a certain piece of hardware can or cant cope with, only then you choose virtualization technique to reduce risks and value strong points, choose implementation considering stability and support for various techniques.
    It is a VERY hard choice.
    M

    Thanked by 1zhuanyi
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