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Should I refuse refund for those users who use VPS to attack others' network?
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Should I refuse refund for those users who use VPS to attack others' network?

avelineaveline Member, Patron Provider
edited July 2012 in Help

As title.

«1

Comments

  • Yes.

  • JacobJacob Member

    No, Absolutely not.

    Thanked by 1Randy
  • DamianDamian Member

    Was it the user who signed up who attacked the network? Or was their root password something brain-damaged like 12349876 and their VPS got brute-forced?

    Thanked by 2TheHackBox eastonch
  • Depends on the network i guess lol

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited August 2012

    If they are guilty, keep the money and terminate their service. If there is a misunderstanding or their VPS was hijacked in some way, still probably their fault but I'd refund them if they wanted it. Usually isn't too hard to tell which it is.

    Thanked by 1Randy
  • @jarland said: If they are guilty, keep the money and terminate their service

    and if they chargeback what is your defense? Doesnt matter if they broke rules or not u need to refund them. or thats theft

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited August 2012

    @DanielM said: Doesnt matter if they broke rules or not u need to refund them. or thats theft

    How is it theft if they signed up for your service to violate your terms? I assume @aveline has a proper terms of service in place that doesn't promise refunds to people who intentionally abuse the system. In fact, many providers have a fee in their terms of service for just such a thing. Usually more than the service costs.

    Guaranteeing a refund after abuse is like saying "Hey, use us for a day to do your dirty work and we'll gladly hand the money back to you without a fight." Not on my watch.

    Thanked by 1Ash_Hawkridge
  • bamnbamn Member
    edited August 2012

    Ask that one guy on here who runs a hosting company and bought a VPS from another provider to DDoS a user on here about what he thinks. I cannot recall his name

  • DanielMDanielM Member
    edited August 2012

    @jarland said: How is it theft if they signed up for your service to violate your terms?

    The fact is. i dont disagree with you but if they did a chargeback and you came out with that they would win. I would typically refund the client the remaining time minus the applicable Service abuse fees.

    Thanked by 1jar
  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited August 2012

    @DanielM said: The fact is. i dont disagree with you but if they did a chargeback and you came out with that they would win. I would typically refund the client the remaining time minus the applicable Service abuse fees.

    Yeah I'm sure PayPal would give it back to them. I'd still be a jerk about it. Only 24 hours in the VPS business and I've already had abuse. Without being too revealing and still allowing myself to vent... a VPN in NL, address in Alaska, and a PayPal from Nebraska. Really? These people man...lol ...and that was my lesson to enable Maxmind.

  • Just refund if they are using paypal and count it as lesson.

    Thanked by 1Shamli
  • InfinityInfinity Member, Host Rep

    in many cases its better to refund; its easy to say not to do so but in reality it will cause much more of a headache going hard on them..

  • @jarland said: Yeah I'm sure PayPal would give it back to them

    The paypal part you can win (Email me if you need help on this i have a way to gurantee 100% win) Its the banks you should be worried about. and then in turn paypal will fee you.

  • Honestly, if they abused the TOS / AUP I wouldn't refund them, in less of course your TOS / AUP doesn't cover the sort of thing they did, then on the legal side I would have to say, don't make them an enemy, you'll have a big headache then.

  • AlexBarakovAlexBarakov Patron Provider, Veteran

    I terminate on sight and never refund. They threatten to DDoS me quite often, but who cares. None of them has successfully taken our webserver down so far.

  • No.
    Same with Phishing and Spam.

    In general the most users don't even care...

  • if they abused it no, just keep the money , if its misunderstanding just refund them. after all they did agree to the terms and services of your site/

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @DanielM said: . i dont disagree with you but if they did a chargeback and you came out with that they would win

    Please elaborate on that.
    You mean that, if an user breaks the TOS/AUP the payment processor will still give them the money back ?
    Any chargeback is automatically processed, no questions asked ? Hello free service, goodbye providers...
    M

  • DanielMDanielM Member
    edited August 2012

    @Maounique said: Any chargeback is automatically processed, no questions asked ? Hello free service, goodbye providers...

    What i ment was

    Refund them. But only refund the amount that they have not used. And if necessary apply fees for breaking the TOS.

    At the end of the day. Not all clients will try and get a refund. But some will. and unless you know how to get around these things specifically you will loose and it will cost you alot.

    Thanked by 1Maounique
  • flyfly Member
    edited August 2012

    no.

    full refund, cancel as fraud.

    it's possible that they are fraudulent orders paid for with stolen cards.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @DanielM said: Refund them. But only refund the amount that they have not used. And if necessary apply fees for breaking the TOS

    Thank you. I am not a provider but it seemed a highly biased approach from the payment processor's part.
    I have never asked for a chargeback, I prefer to lose the 3 $ or something, not even when my order was cancelled as fraud without a refund or even an attempt to setup the box.
    M

  • No, as I assume this is a breach of the TOS, as long their VPS wasn't cracked or hijacked.

  • GaryGary Member

    @Alex_LiquidHost said: None of them has successfully taken our webserver down so far.

    Someone, somewhere will see that as a challenge...

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran

    I make it a rule not to taunt people, encouraging attacks against you is encouraging attacks against your clients.

  • AlexBarakovAlexBarakov Patron Provider, Veteran

    @jarland said: I make it a rule not to taunt people, encouraging attacks against you is encouraging attacks against your clients.

    So if someone buys 10 VMs from you, uses 10TB of BW on attacking multiple targets and at the end reqeusts a refund, you will kindly refund him?

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited August 2012

    @Alex_LiquidHost I believe there was miscommunication there. I mean taunting hackers by bragging that they haven't succeeded to bring you down yet ;)

    I'm all about standing up to them, but challenging them should be considered for it's potential effect on your clients.

  • AlexBarakovAlexBarakov Patron Provider, Veteran

    @jarland said: I believe there was miscommunication there. I mean taunting hackers by bragging that they haven't succeeded to bring you down yet ;)

    Oh, I see now.

    Well, everything has it's weak point :)

  • jarjar Patron Provider, Top Host, Veteran
    edited August 2012

    Just saying, a DDOS can effect clients too. It's not just between you and the kids. Clients caught in crossfire are not happy. I'd prefer their uptime to my ego.

  • Issue a full refund and terminate his machine. He will not be a loyal client regardless and will cause problems for you.

    Thanked by 1n0my
  • JeffreyJeffrey Member
    edited August 2012

    Of course you shouldn't refund them, just be careful though. I have had many PayPal disputes from people abusing VPS's, but I won of course. Only refund orders used from stolen PayPal accounts and such.

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