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Raided for running a Tor exit - Accepting donations for legal expenses - Page 4

Raided for running a Tor exit - Accepting donations for legal expenses

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  • @William said: Thus i deposited a bit cash (obviously not enough i see now), a phone + charger + (Anonymous, some more - some less) Sim cards from Austria, Slovenia, Serbia and Hongkong, and a passport in this box along with documents needed in absolute emergency (Proof of citizenship, Military exemption documents, Birth documents, as well as a last will and emergency contacts) Access is extremely restricted and regulated (to certain persons of my family and friends - not even my girlfriend has access - as well as to other persons under certain circumstances - i.e. if i am kidnapped or shot police can access it as well, not at stuff like this now however) for obvious reasons. I also have a second, similar, box in a foreign bank not owned by any European and US company/citizens (at least as far as i know) in a bank in South Africa.

    Is it possible to have backup passports?

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  • jcalebjcaleb Moderator

    Stay strong, you will get out of this quickly.

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  • kbeeziekbeezie Member
    edited November 2012

    @William said: I also have a second, similar, box in a foreign bank not owned by any European and US company/citizens (at least as far as i know) in a bank in South Africa.

    So.... does that make you a flight risk?

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  • Let me know if donations work again!

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  • @George_Fusioned said: Is it possible to have backup passports?

    It is possible, if you have more than one citizenship. Also, you don't need to keep your passport at home, having just an ID card with you should be enough. The passport would be needed only if you want to travel outside the EU.

  • @Wintereise said: you really think he'd be stupid enough to disclose everything if he really did all of that you claim?

    Have you not understood the context? People are saying that a tor exit node should be immune and that is is absurd that someone who is running one should be investigated for the actions of the users, that any such investigation is a waste of resources, etc.

    I'm saying that people who run exit nodes could very well be doing dodgy things and use the excuse of 'running an exit node' to mask their actions. As such I believe that it is not a good idea for exit nodes to be immune.

  • Send you 5 Bitcoins, keep your head up mate!

    Hey there... nothing to see here

  • @rds100 said: It is possible, if you have more than one citizenship.

    Interesting, because I do have two citizenships... Will have to check it out cause I always wanted to have a deposit box with backup stuff too. You know, Jason Bourne style :P

    Fusioned | KVM SSD VPS | LSI RAID10 | Netherlands 1Gbps | R1Soft | IPv4 & IPv6 | SolusVM
  • IANAL, Speak to your own lawyer

    You should have basic defence under the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_Commerce_Directive_(EU)

    If you look at the term "Mere conduit" then you could potentially have some protection under that.

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  • © 2014 eLohkCalb
  • eLohkCalb @Yep, there was a lengthy discussion on NANOG too. He's a famous now ;-)

  • The exit node is a transport medium, and by that logic, you're basically saying that network carriers should be responsible for every bit of data their users choose to transmit over their network.

    The same excuses can be used here too, essentially meaning it's pointless.

    tl;dr: That is absurd.

    -- BOFH

  • Donated some BTC best of luck man. FUCK the"MAN" and to the sad fucks who used tor and caused this shame on you. :(

    What The Server

  • @Wintereise said: The exit node is a transport medium, and by that logic, you're basically saying that network carriers should be responsible for every bit of data their users choose to transmit over their network.

    Happened in Australia where iiNet got sued.

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  • joepie91joepie91 Member
    edited November 2012

    @birdie25 said: Why would a normal guy have a safe deposit box with an emergency phone and enough cash to buy a new MacBook? Not attempting to hate or anything, i'm just curious :)

    I'd imagine because of what other people said: "If you run a TOR exit, prepare for the possibility to get raided."

    @Nick said: You think it's stupid for police to go after people who produce

    No.

    @Nick said: and distribute

    Yes.

    @Nick said: Yes, they have accidentally gone after a tor exit node, but they don't really know that yet do they.

    Not really. If you'd read the interview, you'd know that the Polish police (which was where the exit node was hosted) was already aware that this was an exit node. The Austrian police could have known that, as they have to cooperate with Polish police anyway.

    @Nick said: I'm saying that people who run exit nodes could very well be doing dodgy things and use the excuse of 'running an exit node' to mask their actions.

    Guess what? You're never going to find out, so might as well not raid in the first place. If someone is smart enough to set up a TOR node to mask his activity, then he's also smart enough to encrypt his shit so that nothing is found when searched.

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  • @Shade said: Send you 5 Bitcoins, keep your head up mate!

    That's about ~ 62 USD right? (been a while since I looked at the rate).

    @concerto49 said: Happened in Australia where iiNet got sued.

    I thought William was in Austria (I made the same mistake of thinking it was Australia).

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  • @concerto49 donated a part of my payment to you @William all the best for you

  • @joepie91 said: Guess what? You're never going to find out, so might as well not raid in the first place. If someone is smart enough to set up a TOR node to mask his activity, then he's also smart enough to encrypt his shit so that nothing is found when searched.

    This.

    @birdie25 said: Why would a normal guy have a safe deposit box with an emergency phone and enough cash to buy a new MacBook? Not attempting to hate or anything, i'm just curious :)

    Because you never know what happens in the future and better be safe then sorry? Especially when you make a fist for privacy and free internet speech.

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  • WintereiseWintereise Member
    edited November 2012

    Check out the chosen comment on this page: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/tor-operator-charged-for-child-porn-transmitted-over-his-servers/

    Sums up the naysayers pretty nicely :)

    Another interesting comment:

    "As you can see from them taking his XBox, they simply grabbed anything that was plugged in and looked more complicated than a toaster."

    -- Probably from the NANOG list.

    -- BOFH

  • @kbeezie someting in that direction, yes. Why do you ask ;) ?

    Hey there... nothing to see here

  • @Wintereise said: "As you can see from them taking his XBox, they simply grabbed anything that was plugged in and looked more complicated than a toaster."

    At face value I'd agree however, the XBox can connect to the Intarwebs and store data.

  • @Wintereise said: "As you can see from them taking his XBox, they simply grabbed anything that was plugged in and looked more complicated than a toaster."

    True story :P

    Offtopic: I didn't know @William was only 20 years old? He is a very talented person imo.

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  • I doubt he's 20 years old, more likely that information is incorrect.

  • SC Magazine did a nice effort into background research, but sadly the article is horribly written and not entirely accurate: http://www.scmagazine.com.au/News/324804,tor-exit-node-operator-raided-by-police.aspx

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  • mpkossenmpkossen Administrator
    edited November 2012

    Well, @William, you've made it to the top Dutch tech news site Tweakers.net as well. Whole news item about this :)

    Here's the link: tweakers.net/nieuws/85848/beheerder-tor-exitnode-verdacht-van-verspreiden-kinderporno.html

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  • Okay, you're online. All the best.

    - Ishaq
  • William is the one running EDIS ?

    Need a VPS @ BitCoins -> Participate

  • @darknessends said: William is the one running EDIS ?

    No, he just works there. He doesn't own the company.

  • @William is getting famous for all the wrong reasons here... Let's turn this around buddy!

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  • @Liam said: Quote BBC "Police raided the home of William Weber, who ran the servers, and charged him with distributing illegal images." - He's been charged? Seems a little slanderous...

    Charged and Convicted are two different things.

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  • @Liam since when do you trust what news sites claim? :)

  • On this site: It shows it was 12th November; we've been out of the loop for a while!

    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/tor-operator-charged-for-child-porn-transmitted-over-his-servers/

    (Check side image on the right, I don't speak this language, but I can read numbers!:))

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  • I will risk the beating and jump out here and say that well founded intentions or not, providing a service that allows the distribution of things like Child Porn should be stopped. The thinly veiled excuse of privacy and freedom is not a reason to then accept the abuse that some will use the sever for or wash your hands of that abuse.

    If indecent images of children are now in the hands of hundreds, maybe even thousands of more people as a result of this node then that's just sickening.

    If you are smart enough to run the service you are smart enough to know what it may be getting used for and therefore you accept the risk.

  • JarJar Member
    edited November 2012

    @W1V_Lee said: The thinly veiled excuse of privacy and freedom is not a reason to then accept the abuse that some will use the sever for or wash your hands of that abuse.

    Allowing, let's say, someone from Iran to speak out without fear of being punished by their government is not, in any way, a thinly veiled excuse. It actually gets utilized to spread information outside of areas that people generally fear getting caught by their oppressive leaders. Information that can lead to the rest of the world having a clue what really goes on there. I agree with your sentiment but you have to draw a line somewhere. Child porn was around before the internet, it would be around after the internet. I'm not saying turn a blind eye to it, but you have to ask yourself just how far is too far in trying to stop people from doing things. You can't control the world. The only real answer is to wipe out the human race. You have to decide where you think that line has to be drawn and try to work on this side of it. Don't quit, just don't seek an end using means that punish everyone else. It's difficult to pick a right answer here, personal conviction goes a long way.

    Ask yourself this: Is there ever a legitimate case for remaining anonymous? If so, the tool used will be exploited by those who wish to remain anonymous for such disgusting reasons. Does this fact always, every single time, outweigh the legitimate case? Answering "yes" would be the only logical reason for fully opposing TOR.

    @W1V_Lee said: providing a service that allows the distribution of things like Child Porn should be stopped.

    image

  • To be quite honest, if the judge is shown exactly what a TOR exit node is, and how it's uncontrollable and that it's just a method of "VPN" with no logs and anonymous communication, then he should be let off. Unless X server actually holds or has evidence of these images once being on the hard drive, It's unlikely he'll get charged.

    The negative about this, is that judges, everywhere, are so "WHAT THE FUCK CP" they'll not listen to reason.

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  • @eastonch said: Let's turn this around buddy!

    Indeed, lets make the case for anonymity and Tor in general ! Show it is legal and many oppressed ppl used it to access the "free" internet ! Make the connection with the arab spring, iran and china !

    Who's General Failure, and why is he reading my drive A: ?

  • @eastonch said: To be quite honest, if the judge is shown exactly what a TOR exit node is, and how it's uncontrollable and that it's just a method of "VPN" with no logs and anonymous communication, then he should be let off. Unless X server actually holds or has evidence of these images once being on the hard drive, It's unlikely he'll get charged. The negative about this, is that judges, everywhere, are so "WHAT THE FUCK CP" they'll not listen to reason.

    I wonder if they'll ever try to charge him for criminal negligence in that case?

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  • @W1V_Lee said: If indecent images of children are now in the hands of hundreds, maybe even thousands of more people as a result of this node then that's just sickening.

    Same goes for e-mail services, https, dial-in BBS, phone-lines, regular mail, heck, it is fairly easy to send anonymous packages of envelopes containing god knows what, sniffer dogs wont catch photos or sd cards... This whole "crusade" is really sickening...

    Who's General Failure, and why is he reading my drive A: ?

  • unusedunused Member
    edited November 2012

    @eastonch said: On this site: It shows it was 12th November; we've been out of the loop for a while!

    Stock photo? Edit: nevermind, I can read his name. It's more likely the warrant/whatever they call it was granted on the 12th, and only executed yesterday-

    Retired!

  • @eastonch said: It shows it was 12th November; we've been out of the loop for a while!

    Could it be that the court order was issued before it was utilized?

  • @unused said: Stock photo?

    No, William scanned the court order.

  • @Liam - seems like the bbc article overreached with the "Charged" statement - based on the @Williams interview anyway. (Explicitly mentions he has not been charged, walked away etc..)

    Retired!

  • @unused judging by the http://raided4tor.cryto.net/ site it has alot of "inconsistencies" in the police force giving rights etc, if they were hoping for a mega take down, you'd expect 'BY THE BOOK'.

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  • @eastonch said: On this site: It shows it was 12th November; we've been out of the loop for a while!

    That's the date of approval of the court order, as far as I can determine.

    @W1V_Lee said: I will risk the beating and jump out here and say that well founded intentions or not, providing a service that allows the distribution of things like Child Porn should be stopped.

    Time to shut down the internet!

    @W1V_Lee said: The thinly veiled excuse of privacy and freedom is not a reason to then accept the abuse that some will use the sever for or wash your hands of that abuse.

    I suggest you shut your mouth with accusations of 'thinly veiled excuses' until you have actual first-hand experience with people in various countries who depend on TOR for their fucking life.

    @W1V_Lee said: If indecent images of children are now in the hands of hundreds, maybe even thousands of more people as a result of this node then that's just sickening.

    Oh yeah, of course, your issue isn't with the children that are being abused. Your issue is with people having pictures that you personally find sickening! Way to go there buddy.

    Asshole.

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  • popcorn

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  • @W1V_Lee said: providing a service that allows the distribution of things like Child Porn Free Speech should be stopped.

    Your ability to post online would have to be stopped as well with your logic, do you really feel as you do? Of maybe it was just a knee-jerk reaction?

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  • This has become quite a big event!! Take a look at the bbc news website in the technology section!

  • JackJack Member
    edited November 2012

    @titanicsaled said: Take a look at the bbc news website in the technology section!

    Really?!

    Edit: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20554788 ...

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