@let_bmn said: Also, it might be a good idea to open comments for non-registrants. I wouldn't have commented if I haven't found a free account at bugmenot.
I don't think this is in Williams hands. But, even if I'm not sure how's about this actually, some people here are working on something for this :)
Donated 50 Euros (~67 USD)... you might also want to get your return from paypal link to go to a page about the exit node and updates on how much has been raised or whatever.
@let_bmn said: The tor exit node you ran
Why you need a lawyer since you have a textbook-case (standard) defense
Your bitcoin account
1.: ZhangPoland1, ZhangUkraine1, ZhangAustria1, ZhangCzechRepublic1 as well as a few others, and lots of middle nodes.
I still run middle and entry notes regardless of this.
2.: Because it is'nt, there is just 1 similar case in Austria (which was ruled in favour of the Tor operator, but based on another crime).
3.: 1CPKAMtD4bcLrh8SRHfSxBBMmQQ5cqahPZ
Most of them were disabled in early 2012 as the ISPs did not like my Abuse (DMCA notices mainly) and/or BW usage.
The servers were probably confiscated - As all of these were VPS and not my own hardware i was neither informed nor did notice this.
I still, at this very moment, run various entry and middle nodes.
@KuJoe said: Are you serious? So some VPS providers probably got their servers confiscated impacting dozens or hundreds of clients?
Possibly but a multi nation (Poland, Ukraine and Czech) raid seems unlikely, the Austrian one probably did get confiscated though. If the provider allowed it than it's not really Will's fault when he's just using what's he've paid for.
@KuJoe said: So some VPS providers probably got their servers confiscated impacting dozens or hundreds of clients?
This is not uncommon for raids, regardless of the reason for the raid. I remember this being widely reported in a malware sting, where a few racks of servers or so were just ripped out, effectively blacking out an entire provider.
@Chan said: Possibly but a multi nation (Poland, Ukraine and Czech) raid seems unlikely, the Austrian one probably did get confiscated though. If the provider allowed it than it's not really Will's fault when he's just using what's he've paid for.
Good luck Will!
:P I don't know how it is in the AUS, but in the US a user may be held liable for the actions that come thru their home/property especially if they set it up for the possibility of it happening (ie: you know the risk of what comes and goes out of a Tor exit node if you set it up yourself, as opposed to someone exploiting your server without your knowledge and then proceeding as such).
Though I'm curious, if one is running an exit node on Tor, and the content that was traded doesn't exist on any of the servers (Since it was pass thru completely), how is it possible to charge the person with distribution of child pornography anymore than they could charge the datacenter or machine provider with it? Seems like they're wanting to convict someone because they couldn't catch the original culprit.
Personally though, you had to have known this was a possible risk when running an exit node. I just hope for your sakes no traces of that crap was left on any of the machine they've confiscated (but I know in AUS they don't seem to need as much evidence as they do in the US, as I've noticed even lolicon in AUS will get you convicted).
KBeezie - Insignificant little blog about Nginx, FreeBSD, fun stuff | PhoenixVPS - Managed Support Representative
@kbeezie said: Seems like they're wanting to convict someone because they couldn't catch the original culprit.
I'd imagine that to them it's more like this in their heads:
Person stands still, blindfolded, holding gun. Person accepts jobs to pull trigger. Doesn't see his target, has complete plausible deniability, shouldn't be offering this clearly easy to abuse service. You wouldn't blame the manufacturer of the trigger, you'd blame the guy who has no idea what his gun is being used to fire at, then if you could figure out who hired him to pull the trigger, win-win scenario.
The exit node in this case is probably the only thing they know how to go after, and it's the faucet from which child pornography is flowing. It's an obvious target.
I'll repeat as said before, this isn't a statement of agreeing with the idea in any way, but my interpretation of the logic. The logic makes sense from a certain mindset, obviously not one that you or I share.
Know what I wonder sometimes? What if no child porn was actually involved and they're just taking down the possible outlets? It seems plausible considering that a number of legislation are passed in the guise of being against child porn (ie: record keeping regulation 2257 in the US as an example, which they tried to pass revision b under the same reason but requiring it of completely clothed models, even in non-photography related fields). Just seems to be much easier to take someone down with that excuse as a jury would rarely be sympathetic.
KBeezie - Insignificant little blog about Nginx, FreeBSD, fun stuff | PhoenixVPS - Managed Support Representative
@kbeezie said: Personally though, you had to have known this was a possible risk when running an exit node. I just hope for your sakes no traces of that crap was left on any of the machine they've confiscated (but I know in AUS they don't seem to need as much evidence as they do in the US, as I've noticed even lolicon in AUS will get you convicted).
Be aware that this is about Austria, not Australia.
@kbeezie said: Just seems to be much easier to take someone down with that excuse as a jury would rarely be sympathetic.
And this here is a very big problem; it does, however, more commonly happen in lawmaking than it happens in conviction or targeting of individuals (to my knowledge, at least).
@joepie91 said: Be aware that this is about Austria, not Australia.
Noted (I think it would probably be worse if he was in AUS)
@joepie91 said: And this here is a very big problem; it does, however, more commonly happen in lawmaking than it happens in conviction or targeting of individuals (to my knowledge, at least).
I've noticed this a lot in the US at the very least, they may have something in there that emphasizes on 'protecting children', the same excuse they used early on for a number of internet related bills, when had little to do about that and more about control.
KBeezie - Insignificant little blog about Nginx, FreeBSD, fun stuff | PhoenixVPS - Managed Support Representative
@joepie91 said: Yes, this is very common outside the US as well. There's typically less public outrage about it, however.
Typically when it comes to the topic of CP, most people's brains just shut off and turn into avoidance, almost like a "do what you will, just don't involve or associate with me", I think the US's nature of frivolous lawsuits have somewhat made more people skeptical as such more likely to be outraged, when they're expecting to have to 'dig deeper' for a truth behind such a bill.
KBeezie - Insignificant little blog about Nginx, FreeBSD, fun stuff | PhoenixVPS - Managed Support Representative
@kbeezie said: Typically when it comes to the topic of CP, most people's brains just shut off and turn into avoidance, almost like a "do what you will, just don't involve or associate with me"
Haha, yes. There's an insane irrationality and taboo going on. And the moment you point that out, and even as much as give the idea that you might disagree with a raid/law/action that is supposedly against "child porn", you are immediately branded a "pedo" because "why else would you disagree?"
Right now $30.00 for the domain and If that person wins, the money will get donated and the domain goes back up for sale so that more money can be donated.
I think we should all be concerned by this and donate so that William has a legitimate chance at defending himself. I do pity him if they charge him for the possession of illegally downloaded music/movies/etc if they can't stick anything to him concerning the Tor exit node.
@joepie91 said: It's very common in Europe to seize any unrelated but 'questionable' goods during a raid or road search. These findings can result in separate charges.
This is some pretty bad news for William... expect more news soon
It's LET, you should expect unnecessary overreactions. "Gimme the sound, to see, Another world outside that’s full of All the broken things that I made"
Comments
Donated 10 Euros, hopefully this works out for you.
William, Please provide us with a bit of details on:
Also, it might be a good idea to open comments for non-registrants. I wouldn't have commented if I haven't found a free account at bugmenot.
50 USD to you
AsadH read the Twilight books
LET has had issues with open registration in the past, which is the reason for the semi-closed community here.
BTW guys, someone posted this thread on reddit, it's currently at #3 on /r/technology.
@William, you should do Q/A here: http://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/13ztsm/tor_exit_node_raided_in_austria/
Edit: Not sure what I did wrong.. Link fixed now.
I don't think this is in Williams hands. But, even if I'm not sure how's about this actually, some people here are working on something for this :)
You're also on ycombinator.
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4847468
I wish your troubles get over fast.
Donated 50 Euros (~67 USD)... you might also want to get your return from paypal link to go to a page about the exit node and updates on how much has been raised or whatever.
The link it brought me to was: https://rdns.im/donationthanks?merchant_return_link=Return+to+donations+coordinator&auth=Abw60qjNFIhYZN.QmVcO2adjLD-Pw3Xgd9aVhFhNWB6TSFk102JbSSwzNYTs2bH.t6tNnKlCwgZYy.ax6OKDZvg
1.: ZhangPoland1, ZhangUkraine1, ZhangAustria1, ZhangCzechRepublic1 as well as a few others, and lots of middle nodes. I still run middle and entry notes regardless of this. 2.: Because it is'nt, there is just 1 similar case in Austria (which was ruled in favour of the Tor operator, but based on another crime). 3.: 1CPKAMtD4bcLrh8SRHfSxBBMmQQ5cqahPZ
@BlueVM: Corrected, thanks for the info.
@William - Good luck and I'll donate more if you find yourself short let me know.
Damn, that sucks man.
Wish I could donate but my budget is pretty tight right now (running a hosting business for a game I play).... best of luck!
Shane Elmore | Programmer In Progress
Dang dude, that really sucks.
I'll see what I can scratch up and I'll try to send a few bucks your way.
IRC.FREENODE.NET #vpsBoard - Drop by and say, 'Hello'.
That's not a low blow, its an intelligent statement.
shell
Donated €10.. I hope that reddit and HN will bring a lot more to help you out on this.
Good luck!
The best helmsmen stand on shore. - A wise man.
I use http://tuxlite.com to configure all my VPSes and I love it!
Wonder if the guy who originally came up with that, was standing on the shore.
This is mildly funny in an inappropriate way.
Appreciate my posts/software/guides? Donate (PayPal/Flattr/Bitcoin): http://cryto.net/~joepie91/donate.html | irc.freenode.net #lowendbox
http://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/6252/domain-auction-kvmpower.com#Item_3 Now proceeds will fund @William so hopefully It will get more bidders and go for a good cause.
Birchtreelane.com Antiques, Gifts and more!
on a mobile connection at the moment, but ill send some funds over once im home.
keep us updated if you can @william, hope things turn out alright for you.
And when did the raid occur? To be more specific, when exactly did you stop running them as exit nodes?
Most of them were disabled in early 2012 as the ISPs did not like my Abuse (DMCA notices mainly) and/or BW usage. The servers were probably confiscated - As all of these were VPS and not my own hardware i was neither informed nor did notice this. I still, at this very moment, run various entry and middle nodes.
Sell some of those IP's you have :)
Pretty sure I just got an acquittance to send you some bitcoins, not 100% sure if he sent it though.
Good luck.
Are you serious? So some VPS providers probably got their servers confiscated impacting dozens or hundreds of clients?
-->FREE cPanel Hosting<--</a>
Possibly but a multi nation (Poland, Ukraine and Czech) raid seems unlikely, the Austrian one probably did get confiscated though. If the provider allowed it than it's not really Will's fault when he's just using what's he've paid for.
Good luck Will!
This is not uncommon for raids, regardless of the reason for the raid. I remember this being widely reported in a malware sting, where a few racks of servers or so were just ripped out, effectively blacking out an entire provider.
Appreciate my posts/software/guides? Donate (PayPal/Flattr/Bitcoin): http://cryto.net/~joepie91/donate.html | irc.freenode.net #lowendbox
:P I don't know how it is in the AUS, but in the US a user may be held liable for the actions that come thru their home/property especially if they set it up for the possibility of it happening (ie: you know the risk of what comes and goes out of a Tor exit node if you set it up yourself, as opposed to someone exploiting your server without your knowledge and then proceeding as such).
Though I'm curious, if one is running an exit node on Tor, and the content that was traded doesn't exist on any of the servers (Since it was pass thru completely), how is it possible to charge the person with distribution of child pornography anymore than they could charge the datacenter or machine provider with it? Seems like they're wanting to convict someone because they couldn't catch the original culprit.
Personally though, you had to have known this was a possible risk when running an exit node. I just hope for your sakes no traces of that crap was left on any of the machine they've confiscated (but I know in AUS they don't seem to need as much evidence as they do in the US, as I've noticed even lolicon in AUS will get you convicted).
I'd imagine that to them it's more like this in their heads: Person stands still, blindfolded, holding gun. Person accepts jobs to pull trigger. Doesn't see his target, has complete plausible deniability, shouldn't be offering this clearly easy to abuse service. You wouldn't blame the manufacturer of the trigger, you'd blame the guy who has no idea what his gun is being used to fire at, then if you could figure out who hired him to pull the trigger, win-win scenario.
The exit node in this case is probably the only thing they know how to go after, and it's the faucet from which child pornography is flowing. It's an obvious target.
I'll repeat as said before, this isn't a statement of agreeing with the idea in any way, but my interpretation of the logic. The logic makes sense from a certain mindset, obviously not one that you or I share.
Know what I wonder sometimes? What if no child porn was actually involved and they're just taking down the possible outlets? It seems plausible considering that a number of legislation are passed in the guise of being against child porn (ie: record keeping regulation 2257 in the US as an example, which they tried to pass revision b under the same reason but requiring it of completely clothed models, even in non-photography related fields). Just seems to be much easier to take someone down with that excuse as a jury would rarely be sympathetic.
damn. sorry to hear all that.... why do I get the feeling that .at police is just bored? hope this works out for you, dude.
Be aware that this is about Austria, not Australia.
And this here is a very big problem; it does, however, more commonly happen in lawmaking than it happens in conviction or targeting of individuals (to my knowledge, at least).
Appreciate my posts/software/guides? Donate (PayPal/Flattr/Bitcoin): http://cryto.net/~joepie91/donate.html | irc.freenode.net #lowendbox
Noted (I think it would probably be worse if he was in AUS)
I've noticed this a lot in the US at the very least, they may have something in there that emphasizes on 'protecting children', the same excuse they used early on for a number of internet related bills, when had little to do about that and more about control.
Yes, this is very common outside the US as well. There's typically less public outrage about it, however.
Appreciate my posts/software/guides? Donate (PayPal/Flattr/Bitcoin): http://cryto.net/~joepie91/donate.html | irc.freenode.net #lowendbox
Typically when it comes to the topic of CP, most people's brains just shut off and turn into avoidance, almost like a "do what you will, just don't involve or associate with me", I think the US's nature of frivolous lawsuits have somewhat made more people skeptical as such more likely to be outraged, when they're expecting to have to 'dig deeper' for a truth behind such a bill.
Haha, yes. There's an insane irrationality and taboo going on. And the moment you point that out, and even as much as give the idea that you might disagree with a raid/law/action that is supposedly against "child porn", you are immediately branded a "pedo" because "why else would you disagree?"
Appreciate my posts/software/guides? Donate (PayPal/Flattr/Bitcoin): http://cryto.net/~joepie91/donate.html | irc.freenode.net #lowendbox
This discussion is great and all but let's keep this thread for donations
Right now $30.00 for the domain and If that person wins, the money will get donated and the domain goes back up for sale so that more money can be donated.
Birchtreelane.com Antiques, Gifts and more!
I think we should all be concerned by this and donate so that William has a legitimate chance at defending himself. I do pity him if they charge him for the possession of illegally downloaded music/movies/etc if they can't stick anything to him concerning the Tor exit node.
USA > EU
cats > dogs
Blow Jobs > Missionary
Universal truth right there.
This is some pretty bad news for William... expect more news soon
It's LET, you should expect unnecessary overreactions. "Gimme the sound, to see, Another world outside that’s full of All the broken things that I made"
Busy giving interviews..... thanks for all the donations, they will really help me.
Stay strong !
Interview with William released here: http://raided4tor.cryto.net/ (in English, Dutch, and German)
Appreciate my posts/software/guides? Donate (PayPal/Flattr/Bitcoin): http://cryto.net/~joepie91/donate.html | irc.freenode.net #lowendbox
Too bad Falco died :( Alles klar herr Komissar...
Fuck, William, what do you need those firearms for???
Got divided by zero. Three times. Feel better ever since...
Hey @William there is your in. Get in touch with your boy mr moneybags KimDotCom. He can probably help you with a lawyer.
Birchtreelane.com Antiques, Gifts and more!
Meh, PayPal account limited due to fund limit - Need to call PayPal tommorow to remove this ASAP.
@William
Those bitches... :L
Saw that coming, they have a habit of freezing up accounts that suddenly started taking donations. Just don't mention Bitcoins to them...