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Is HE bandwidth so terrible for U.S.?
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Is HE bandwidth so terrible for U.S.?

Pretty much everyone I've asked has warned me to stay away from HE. At the same time, pretty much every feeler I've sent out to get BW other than HE has been "don't bother asking" followed sometimes by specific prices upwards of $10/Mbit. Versus a theoretical HE price of around $0.50/Mbit.

Most specifically, about HE, I've been told that they lack quality routes to Europe and Asia.

But traffic will still get through, albeit slower, right?

Is it such a terrible choice if you just want to sell budget VPS behind it?

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Comments

  • Where do you get 10$/Mbit? Even Level3 is only around 4$/Mbit....

    HE+Cogent (or anyone else) is a solid network for much of US/EU - Not all, especially DTAG and UPC, but pretty good.

  • singsingsingsing Member
    edited August 2015

    William said: Where do you get 10$/Mbit? Even Level3 is only around 4$/Mbit....

    I asked a large carrier for a quote on 100Mbit at a HE data center, and it came back close to $15/Mbit.

    To get lower prices, do I have to try at a more competitive data center with more carriers (probably do-able), or do I have to ask for a larger commit (probably not doable, 1Gbit * $4/Mbit = $4000/mo, much too rich for my blood, a 1yr term would wipe out all my savings). Or should I look into a cross-connect with someone who already has bandwidth, or what?

    TL;DR how do I get quality bandwidth at a reasonable price as a small player? (maybe I should have a new thread of this).

  • I like a HE + Cogent blend. Seem to have good peering with local ISPs here in North America, excellent speeds for serving up files to end users.

  • RizRiz Member

    You can pick up cogent / he at $500-$1k per gbit. HE will be cheaper, but I have seen both of them get pretty low. You must not be at at a prime location.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran
    edited August 2015

    IIRC, some time ago, Voxility had a 500 Mbps offer L3 exclusive all you can eat for 500 Eur. You can combine that with their regular blend which is almost free to get a decent network as they peer with many people along the road from romania to LA.

    As for the HE traffic, TBH, I am not sure why the legend is so bad in their side, I never had issues with HE flapping anything, while L3 did, some of their routes are congested at some hours, yes, but for the p rice and combined with another underdog as William and mikeyur said, Cogent give you very good performance and you cna easily offer unmettered stuff.

  • singsing said: I asked a large carrier for a quote on 100Mbit at a HE data center, and it came back close to $15/Mbit.

    That carrier sucks then. I know providers pay 70c/Mbit HE in a 3rd world market (Vienna, Austria) and 50c in Second/First worl.

  • From a recent sales email from an HE rep,

    1,000Mbps Metro Special Internet Bandwidth/IP Transit $550/month. Or, on a specific term length as low as $0.39/Mbps thirty-nine cents per Mbps) = $390/month USD.

    10,000Mbps Metro Special Internet Bandwidth/IP Transit $5,000/month. Or, on a specific term as low as $0.30/Mbps (thirty cents per Mbps) = $3,000/month USD.

    It's not supposed to be 10$/Mbps these days for a single carrier. A really good blend, MAYBE.

    Thanked by 1muratai
  • cncking2000 said: A really good blend, MAYBE.

    for EU/US 10$/Mbit must be an EXTREMELY good blend - Native Telefonica, Native DTAG, Native UPC, Level3 and NTT as upstream besides them and extremely extensive peering (All EU capitals).

    Thanked by 1doughmanes
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @William said:

    Our blend is extremely far from 10$/Mbit and is pretty solid, but many people peer in MIX, for some reason, Vienna was such a hub during the KPNQuest times, I wonder what happened, it is well located there.

  • WilliamWilliam Member
    edited August 2015

    Sorry but your network is not really "premium" - You have no transport links to eastern europe (Bucharest, Warsaw, Kiev, Moscow) and no direct link to UPC (10+ million customers in EU) either.

    VIX/Vienna is still large, especially for Russia but the transport to DECIX/Frankfurt is now cheaper/same price so most peer there now.

  • netomxnetomx Moderator, Veteran

    Where can I get those prices on Mexico with Cogent? I know they have an office and backbone here

  • Buy 40G+ with them and they will give you 50c/Mbit.

    Mexico is, at best, a secondary market so don't expect any wonders.

    Thanked by 1netomx
  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    William said: Sorry but your network is not really "premium" - You have no transport links to eastern europe (Bucharest, Warsaw, Kiev, Moscow)

    True, our network is configured mostly for streaming within Italy and the western world, however, we do have quite a few carriers which link to eastern europe, I have 38-40 ms and can do 4-5 MB/s to Prometeus, not that far from what I can do within Bucharest (7-8 MB/s) Our network has huge space to spike, only 10% is used usually as the streaming business can spike hugely at times.

  • William said: That carrier sucks then. I know providers pay 70c/Mbit HE in a 3rd world market (Vienna, Austria) and 50c in Second/First worl.

    Just to be clear, this was not a quote for HE bandwidth, it was a quote for the carrier's bandwidth based on a POP at a HE data center.

  • Maounique said: True, our network is configured mostly for streaming within Italy and the western world, however, we do have quite a few carriers which link to eastern europe, I have 38-40 ms and can do 4-5 MB/s to Prometeus, not that far from what I can do within Bucharest (7-8 MB/s) Our network has huge space to spike, only 10% is used usually as the streaming business can spike hugely at times.

    Yea, Prometeus is very solid BW wise, only thing that bugs me is the Seabone route to UPC (via NL) which is still better than what Hetzner has (NTT) but is not ideal. DTAG via Seabone is congested at peak times but eh everything is by now unless you pay them for direct peering.

    singsing said: Just to be clear, this was not a quote for HE bandwidth, it was a quote for the carrier's bandwidth based on a POP at a HE data center.

    Still, 15$/Mbit is insane - What commit did you request at which port speed? Only time i've seen that high pricing post 2012 was on weird port configs/commit (like 10Mbit commit @ 10GE port) to cover their equipment costs.

    HEs Fremont DC(s) are not exactly huge carrier POPs, so choice is limited there - Both intentional (to get people to buy HE BW) and non intentional (Fremont is... not really anywhere near any large POPs)

  • cociucociu Member
    edited August 2015

    i am dealing with HE this days for 2 location , One in Romania and one in Moldavia , i can confirm i get 10gbps for 2700 $/mo/location with a contract period of 1 year (this was a first offer wich i recive , maybe if i have luck finnaly will be 2500$)

  • Keep in mind if they sell you something in Moldova it will be a new POP with only 10G and single backhaul link to Bucharest.

    Bucharest is connected to the ring by Budapest and Frankfurt it seems, probably by a single 40GE link each.

  • MaouniqueMaounique Host Rep, Veteran

    @cociu said:
    i am dealing with HE this days for 2 location , One in Romania and one in Moldavia , i can confirm i get 10gbps for 2700 $/mo/location with a contract period of 1 year (this was a first offer wich i recive , maybe if i have luck finnaly will be 2500$)

    Do you really need 10 G? RDS might give you some deal if you know whom to call.

  • @Maounique we planing something here and for this i really need he or cogent , for RDS ... the owner stil live here in Oradea .. hahaha

  • William said: Still, 15$/Mbit is insane - What commit did you request at which port speed? Only time i've seen that high pricing post 2012 was on weird port configs/commit (like 10Mbit commit @ 10GE port) to cover their equipment costs.

    Well, I'm not actually aware of a confidentiality agreement for that quote, and, since I'm not naming the carrier I think I can safely give that info -- it was 100Mbit commit 300Mbit burst with 3yr term.

    Just got another quote at the same location, but it mentions NDA (not sure if binding), so all I'm willing to say about that is that it is worlds better than the previous quote but still above $10/Mbit.

  • @singsing - which location are you trying to buy transit?

  • maybe also ask some providers available for CC with HE, might be someone that already has network/commit and can resell you direct port or a port in their network

  • William said: maybe also ask some providers available for CC with HE, might be someone that already has network/commit and can resell you direct port or a port in their network

    You mean hosting providers already in that HE data center? Thought of that yesterday; a few feelers sent out, still too early to tell if anything will pan out in that direction.

  • gbshousegbshouse Member, Host Rep

    Contact lads from Castlegem if you need transit in HE Fremont

    Thanked by 1ozfingwe
  • jbilohjbiloh Administrator, Veteran

    It's all about expectations. If you go with he and don't expect much you probably won't be disappointed.

    Is it a replacement for a carrier like xo, zayo, telia, etc? No.

  • @William any ideas what the pricing is like in Western Canada (Vancouver)? The DC blends here are ridiculously pricey.. so pricey that $0.50/mbps would be a steal.

  • @mikeyur - to give you some idea, 10Gbps wave from Seattle to Vancouver cost us $5700/month ($0.57/Mbps)

  • mikeyur said: @William any ideas what the pricing is like in Western Canada (Vancouver)? The DC blends here are ridiculously pricey.. so pricey that $0.50/mbps would be a steal.

    IIRC HE has a pop there - So it should not be more than 1$/Mbit

  • @William @MarkTurner So Astute's value transit looks like a pretty good deal then considering (at least at a 1Gbps commit): http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1439670

  • UrDNUrDN Member

    Hurricane Electric has an open peering policy which does not please shit American ISP.

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