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PayPal Intangible Items Covered By Buyers Protection?
rethinkvps
Member
Just received an email regarding PayPal allowing disputes world wide for intangible items, this is something that alot of low end providers use to win no matter what even if they provide a crappy service.
How does everyone feel about this?
https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/merchant-intangibles-update
Comments
What check would they do on intangible items?
They have to provide proof it wasn't as described.
you could still win them by saying it was not a authorized charge.
Its been going on for UK customers for a while, now they decided to make it worldwide.
Maybe there might actually be some clearer guidelines going forward; since they now actually list some outlines on that page for merchants.
I think it will be fine to be honest, just means that terms of service will need to be tightened up a little as this will form part of Paypal's review.
Some people will exploit it no doubt but they try that anyway now, at least if you feel you have a genuine reason to put in a claim you have a way to resolve it.
PayPal:
"We consider all claims on their merits. The more relevant evidence you can provide to to prove that you provided the goods or services as described, the greater the likelihood we will reject the buyer’s claim."
Its pretty fair and in 2015 about time.
This policy is going to hurt a lot of shops that would hide behind the "intangible item" policy. It'll be good for consumers, and hopefully it will help eliminate a lot of the shops that were barely providing their services. This is a change that I for one am looking forward to seeing!
PP now do everything for buyers and rip off sellers
It's definitely right for consumers to have this protection. I have not seen/heard much in the UK since this was introduced in terms of it being abused.
Your average customer will only use it where they feel justified to do so, of course that does not mean they are right.
Where it will really hit providers is by loading up on the shitty consumers in the lowend market that will abuse the complete fuck out of it. Yo know who I am referring to and you know who you are.
But thats just plain fraud, like the guys that use a server and then file a CC chargeback to PP to avoid the dispute process.
That easy, use for several months than open CC chargeback where almost impossible to recover. PP also takes a fee for return money into bank from seller its not a free, rip off twice. Buyer always happy.
You don't need to tell me about it
Great. Now how do I stop fraud on intangible items?
say it how you want but if the seller does not provide the service it should have merit.
if they file a chargeback against you paypal can fight it, i had a customer do this some time back when i was in the industry. after 8 months he tried getting all the money back, paypal refused he did a chargeback but paypal appealed it and won. (i lost £10 though because of the appeals) if you (the provider) are in the right you will win providing you can provide supporting documents.
took 3 months though!
Only way switch to non refundable system such a Perfect Money, only problem how to attract buyers to these systems
Bitcoin, IBAN transfer,..
Simple fix to this.
Print the client invoice, and a sheet with the "Delivery Confirmation" (as the hosting company). Use e.g. USPS Class 1 Lettermail and with the tracking number, you can provide to PayPal saying that it did "physically" arrive.
The only issue with Bitcoin is the changing value. For example, someone orders a $10 service in Bitcoin, and the value drops because the new Mt. Gox exchange collapses again. A net loss would be inevitable
I think there are plenty of services that exchange the bitcoins for money right away.
Customer buys bitcoin -> customer buys $10 product on your site with bitcoin -> you get $10
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Merchant_Howto#Services
www.bitpay.com
I'm almost positive that places like Coinbase, Bitpay, etc., immediately convert the bitcoin to some form of fiat (unsure if it's to whatever your local currency is or whatever their local currency is or wtf).... but, you shouldn't be subject to such fluctuations
I've disputed stuff that wasn't covered by paypal's buyer's protection policy before... well, two things. both times paypal offered me free money as compensation.
Well, not all places do.
I used to be with "moolah.io" (gone now) and they stored your balance as BTC. The value would fluctuate so when you deemed the Bitcoin price was high enough, you would convert it to USD or CAD.
They've also added seller protection for intangible items. disputes will stay the same! Its just about proof.
I can't find the reason behind this move, honestly people are already using PayPal like crack for virtual goods, so it's not done to entice new buyers... while it will quadruple their support needs with so many new claims now on virtual goods, which would take a lot of man-hours to verify and decide on...
Whatever their reason, I suspect they've done their research and that it will likely not "quadruple their support needs".
For every tangible item that gets paid through PayPal, I'd assume there are at least 100 intangible goods being paid, so it will surely increase their work... I was being kind when saying quadrupling, it'll be a total mess.
We should warn PayPal.
Right, because it'd be the first or last time someone or some company misjudged a situation they were getting themselves into /sarcasm
Now we need a payment processor to protect sellers from PayPal disputes urg. Possible way might be slightly higher fees than paypal but have the seller well protected. More like an insurance company, but insuring money instead of items. Will this work?
Perhaps you're right. We'll see.